[BASIC] Star Wars Mafia GAME OVER!!!

[bhskeeper11]

Here's the thing. I think that Nolder really is Darth Vader. I also think that as scum, when people are character claiming, the challange becomes finding an obscure enough good guy that won't overlap with other people's probable roles (I'm looking at you Medical Robot and Ewok friend)...

 

Wicket played a big role in Return of the Jedi. He led the Ewoks that fought with Leia to destroy the shield generator thingy.

[Nolder]

have you ever seen the ewok movies?

those were so cool

 

also the cartoon series

 

<3 ewoks

[bgrishinko]

Unvote: Vote Nolder

Here's the thing. I think that Nolder really is Darth Vader. I also think that as scum, when people are character claiming, the challange becomes finding an obscure enough good guy that won't overlap with other people's probable roles (I'm looking at you Medical Robot and Ewok friend)...

 

If two people claim the same person, at least an important one, i.e. "I'm Luke" , "No, I'm Luke" then we have a 50/50 chance of getting right. If we get it wrong, the next day we have a gaurenteed scum kill (assuming some town person wasn't dumb enough to claim someone they are not).

 

As for Nolder, as Vader, with a little knowledge of the ending to Star Wars, he can make a convincing Miller claim. He also doesn't need to worry about finding another obscure character. Easier to reveal your own real evil character with an excuse of why that person is town.

 

And Kate, generally the characters do line up with sides. Not always, but mostly. Boba Fett was a bounty hunter, kind of a lone wolf role, plus he's a fan favortie so I can see the town flip for the character. Miller for Vader makes sense too. But I think as a basic game, Nolder is just being opportunistic with the role, kind of a gaurenteed "get out of lynch free" card.

well I guess you can see it that way

there's nothing I can really dispute about what you've said beyond simply saying "you're wrong"

however I will note that you seem to be basing your vote merely on my roleclaim and nothing else which is exactly what I was afraid would happen

I will also note that I have been one of your biggest critics this game

to me it looks as if you're being an opportunistic mafia member and trying to get me out of the way because of my roleclaim

please tell me, do you have any other evidence that I'm mafia aside from the claim?

it's been discussed thoroughly by now that pretty much all of our claims are worthless at best and WIFOM puzzles at worst

we should be judging people on their merits as players not on the roleclaims

 

Fair Enough.

It isn't really the roleclaim so much as it is the reaction to it. Simply looking at the role is too simple. I'm looking back at the same reason I voted for you Day 1 as well. It also feels like you are trying to secretely buddy with newer players... voting the way they vote. Being the helping hand, etc. That's more than a feeling than something I have hard evidence for though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

Also I think you are trying to lead people with your words too.

i.e.

"Granted, it protects me if she's lynched..."

 

I said something on Day one about Hoof flipping town makes me look good and you (and a few others) jump on me for it. Yet you get no real reaction. You said more smoothly, but it is the same message.

 

ehhh taking that thought further I guess we can assume I'm a mafia power role in that instance (roleblocker maybe to counter vig?) but it still seems terribly odd and could easily backfire

I'm not a big fan of risky plays like that

when I'm mafia I prefer to play it safe (Jack might remember I stopped posting in the vampire game when the heat was on me, better to say nothing than to sound guilty and be questioned)

 

also sorry if it seems like I post too much guys

I often type/post as I think so usually I'll make a post and then think of something else I want to say right after that

 

Meta Gaming. I don't care. All the more reason for me to suspect you to not do the same thing you normally do.

 

*shrugs* I don't lie in mafia - if i state something outright then it's true. But you will learn that in time, playing in games with me.

how can you play mafia and not lie?

it...kind of ruins the game when you do that

because then people can just ask you at the beginning of the game if you're mafia or not and then you're either lynched or are a confirmed townie

either way you'd be breaking the game

kind of unfair...

 

that's assuming you're telling the truth right now anyway

has anyone played with Amadine enough to remember a game which she lied in?

 

Huzzuh Wha?

I don't really see telling the truth as a disadvantage. To me the idea is that Scum lie and town tell the truth. If you catch someone in a lie, then its almost a one way ticket to lynch town. Scum NEED to lie to survive. Town do not.

 

 

 

uhhhhh....ok....

well coming from the perspective of someone new to DM I would expect a roleblocker to be in this game with the roles revealed so far

 

it seems like you guys hold too tightly to tradition and "right and wrong" ways to play mafia here

I admit an unbalanced game kind of sucks but even an unbalanced game can be fun until the end when everythings revealed and you realize you were at a disadvantage

 

And trying to lead us again.

 

So those are some other reasons that have nothing to do with your roleclaim. Happy?

 

Moving on.

 

Here's the thing. I think that Nolder really is Darth Vader. I also think that as scum, when people are character claiming, the challange becomes finding an obscure enough good guy that won't overlap with other people's probable roles (I'm looking at you Medical Robot and Ewok friend)...

 

Wicket played a big role in Return of the Jedi. He led the Ewoks that fought with Leia to destroy the shield generator thingy.

 

That's true. Wicket's cool. But I don't know if he'd make it on my scale of 1-12 of Star Wars characters. Not that that really matters. Just a decent character to be used in a fake claim scenario. I don't have that big of an issue with it... or you. just pondering.

[Red2111]

I'm Han Solo, vanilla and win with the town.

 

Jack you reek of scum to me right now. but because of his character claim VOTE: NOL

Can someone please explain to me why we never say our reasoning at night? I understand that is how most people play, but what is the point of with holding thoughts when you never know who is gonna get killed until the coroners report? Its something I have always wondered.

 

because if you make a case on someone, the scum can use it to their advatnage either to clear a team mate or to frame a person. it helps them decide a more effective NK and gives them more ammo, hence why generally people don't do it unless they feel like the axe will swing their way.

 

 

you're gonna be suspicious of me either way =/

 

whatevs

 

I am Darth Vader and I win with Town

 

you're kidding right?? well atleast you dn't have to worry about a counter claim

 

 

Lulz Nolder, who is your miller partner. Millers communicate off thread in a communication group like masons. So your partner can vet the both of you.

 

Jack your a LLL. i think this who DV/Miller claim here is a gambit between Jack & Nol. Jack, you know the regular Miller role doesn't include a partner. all the role is, is "a townie who is viewed as scum". i'm surprised a vet hasnt called you out on this mis-information.

 

i also agree that this is a basic game, so this role is likely not to be included considering how much chaos it causes.

 

 

With the Cop and Vig dead there's no power role to protect. If i had just said "Medical Doctor - town" the lack of a major character name still would have painted a target on me. Having revealed, the scum now have to decide if i will protect myself, or will i protect another townie? Creates WIFOM for the scum just fine IMO - of course it won't work if ya'll lynch me LOL

 

 

this i agree with and is the only reason why i'm not upset with Ama's reveal. beside the fact that our cop is dead and thats really the only reason a healer should keep quiet imo.

[Red2111]

So, after a few re-reads the main thing that stuck out to me, other than Hoof flipping as cop, was this:

 

If I stay where I am - Black flips town, I'm good. Scum - Screwed.

 

I'm just trying to work out how Hoof's flipping of town was good for you. After the lynch, and when everyone found out the Hoof was cop you say this:

 

Pfff. Whatever. Never again will I be pressured. Somehow people will think this makes me look bad.

 

The part I bolded gets me. We just lost our cop and you just seem to brush it off. If it was a vanilla lynch you could say "well and good. Day one, usually a town is lynched". You not realise this gives scum an advantage? Sure, noone knew Hoof was cop until the coroner's report, and his actions did seem scummy during day one, but what gets me is that after it is known you just say something like "Pfff. Whatever".

 

also, i agree with wolfbro on this.

 

 

my top scum list is

 

Nol

Jack

BG

 

 

i'd be good with a lynch on any of these guys today

[Sedai]

Actually Red it does include a partner. On the wiki it's listed as a mason/miller group. Check it ;)

 

Meh we havent heard from Adella, red I think you Nolder and Adella are scum. Maybe swap out Millon cause

He is trying to lynch the uncontested healer.

 

Adella, Red, Millon

Adella, Nolder, Millon

 

Red yo and Nolder are interchangeable. IMO Adella is a sure shot at scum. But I won't lynch Nolder today.

 

If we don't hit scum today and the healer Doesn't protect the correct player we lose. Nah it's gotta be Adella for me today. If not random is fine also it might hit scum.

[Red2111]

sorry but my instincts say to go with Darth Vader. i think Nol and his team mates are hoping that we will go "why would Nol claim such an obviously bad character if he was scum" and avoid lynchign him. without a finder in play we have to go on face value for info.

 

point is, for the entire movie set (3 - 6) Vader was a bad guy. he did bad things and tried to kill everyone. his redemeaning himself is moot imo, becuase it still doesn't negate all the bad things Vader did.

 

 

now i'm not a real fan of this series, i've only really paid attention to #6 and only cause i love Ewoks.

 

 

Jack, the wiki must have changed it's def for a Miller since i used it in my HP game. from what i recall, the role never stated you had to have the Miller on a team. the Miller claim has always been a "go directly to lynch" claim for me, as it's an easy claim for scum to make incase their viewed so they can cast doubt on a finder. given our lack of a finder, one woudl think that the Miller claim woudl go to Nol's benefit, but imo it just adds more to the "tryign to clear him" prospect.

[Red2111]

also, could someone dig this up for me. a few pages ago, someone pointed out DV's redeeming quality. that he killed the Emperor dude.

 

 

FoS at this person. it smells liek a major set up imo. right now i've got to get to work and i'm tiered form catchign up in the other 4 games i'm in atm; which is why i'm not digging up the post just yet. but i did want to say that it caught me eye.

[Sedai]

We are potentially at LyLo if Adella is scum then I'm pretty sure Red is.

[bhskeeper11]

Actually Red it does include a partner. On the wiki it's listed as a mason/miller group. Check it ;)

 

Meh we havent heard from Adella, red I think you Nolder and Adella are scum. Maybe swap out Millon cause

He is trying to lynch the uncontested healer.

 

Adella, Red, Millon

Adella, Nolder, Millon

 

Red yo and Nolder are interchangeable. IMO Adella is a sure shot at scum. But I won't lynch Nolder today.

 

If we don't hit scum today and the healer Doesn't protect the correct player we lose. Nah it's gotta be Adella for me today. If not random is fine also it might hit scum.

 

I have a hard time trying to reconcile voting for Adella. I know that she has been noticeably absent, but I can't see that being more suspicious than some of the things we've seen so far. But, I haven't played with you all before so you may have a bit more info than I -- is Adella normally really active? If so, her absence would be much more suspicious.

 

For now, my top three are: Nolder, BG, and Ama.

 

Even though Ama is an "uncontested healer," I still stand by what I said earlier when I voted for her. I wouldn't be surprised if someone held back that role so as to not draw attention for an NK. The few times I've played Mafia in person, I've never heard someone genuinely revealing their role unless it was absolutely necessary (such as only needing one more vote for lynch). The only reason I could see for Ama revealing her role was to keep herself from being a viable lynch when she called on Jack to lynch instead of Nolder, when I didn't see Jack really doing anything suspicious; revealing does seem like a win-win for Town.

 

 

And what is LyLo?

[Sedai]

Lynch and lose

[Sedai]

I thought AMA made the correct play tbh. If she has a target on her hade she can protect herself and stop the nk. But the mafia will think she is goin to protect herself so they go random, leaving Nolder alive because he is an easy lynch. So the mafia will probably not target Nol, or AMA tonight and in fact target someone random. Leaving myself, Christine, Kate and BG for AMA and the mafia to chose from. Or the mafia could go for Nol as the easy kill because they just need one more successful kill tonight

If we lynch a townie. The mafia an AMA both have a wifom tonight, it is one howeve that plays slightly in the towns advantage.

[bgrishinko]

Lynch and lose

 

I thought it was Lynch OR Lose...

 

Subtle but important difference.

[Nolder]

Fair Enough.

It isn't really the roleclaim so much as it is the reaction to it.

my reaction to my own role? I don't understand

 

It also feels like you are trying to secretely buddy with newer players... voting the way they vote. Being the helping hand, etc. That's more than a feeling than something I have hard evidence for though, so take it with a grain of salt.

I make no secret of trying to help newer players understand the game

it's the way I was introduced to mafia

when there are newer players you always try to provide them with as much information and explanation as you can

 

I can link you to my first few games of mafia on a different forum where I picked up this habit if you like?

 

explaining things to newer players is a sneaky way to buddy up and seem useful I'll admit that in a heartbeat

I've used that exact reasoning myself in other games

however I have also provided role speculation and (imo) good advice about certain things (ie massclaim was a bad idea)

I have also made cases against several people and remained fairly active since the start of the game

 

in short helping new players is not all I have done so I don't think it's fair to judge me on that alone

though I suppose you AREN'T judging me just for that

regardless I know what I am and I am genuinely trying to help people learn how to play

take that however you will

 

Also I think you are trying to lead people with your words too.

i.e.

"Granted, it protects me if she's lynched..."

 

I said something on Day one about Hoof flipping town makes me look good and you (and a few others) jump on me for it. Yet you get no real reaction. You said more smoothly, but it is the same message.

you're taking the quote out of context

I was trying to make a fair assessment of the situation under the assumption that I was mafia

shortly after the phrase you quoted I discussed why I think it would be a dumb idea to do that if I was in fact mafia

 

your own incident is completely different

it wasn't just what you said about looking good/bad

it was also your reaction to our cops death

 

 

 

ehhh taking that thought further I guess we can assume I'm a mafia power role in that instance (roleblocker maybe to counter vig?) but it still seems terribly odd and could easily backfire

I'm not a big fan of risky plays like that

when I'm mafia I prefer to play it safe (Jack might remember I stopped posting in the vampire game when the heat was on me, better to say nothing than to sound guilty and be questioned)

 

also sorry if it seems like I post too much guys

I often type/post as I think so usually I'll make a post and then think of something else I want to say right after that

 

Meta Gaming. I don't care. All the more reason for me to suspect you to not do the same thing you normally do.

you're right

it was metagaming and shouldn't really matter

it was silly of me to post it

 

also your last sentence doesn't make sense

my metagame was "I normally do this as mafia"

you're saying you suspect me because I'm not doing the thing I said I normally do...but that would imply that I'm town wouldn't it?

 

uhhhhh....ok....

well coming from the perspective of someone new to DM I would expect a roleblocker to be in this game with the roles revealed so far

 

it seems like you guys hold too tightly to tradition and "right and wrong" ways to play mafia here

I admit an unbalanced game kind of sucks but even an unbalanced game can be fun until the end when everythings revealed and you realize you were at a disadvantage

 

And trying to lead us again.

I wasn't trying to lead anything

I was just complaining

 

That's true. Wicket's cool. But I don't know if he'd make it on my scale of 1-12 of Star Wars characters. Not that that really matters. Just a decent character to be used in a fake claim scenario. I don't have that big of an issue with it... or you. just pondering.

this is what I was talking about before

the star wars cast is so big it really doesn't even matter if we claim characters

scum can find any number of roles to hide behind

 

lukes aunt and uncle

bail organa

admiral ackbar

wedge antilles

 

and that's just a few

if we go into even more minor characters (such as say that bartender in mos eisley for example) there is an even broader range of characters to claim

[Red2111]

I thought AMA made the correct play tbh. If she has a target on her hade she can protect herself and stop the nk. But the mafia will think she is goin to protect herself so they go random, leaving Nolder alive because he is an easy lynch. So the mafia will probably not target Nol, or AMA tonight and in fact target someone random. Leaving myself, Christine, Kate and BG for AMA and the mafia to chose from. Or the mafia could go for Nol as the easy kill because they just need one more successful kill tonight

If we lynch a townie. The mafia an AMA both have a wifom tonight, it is one howeve that plays slightly in the towns advantage.

 

i don't like the implications this makes. fact is, Nol has claimed DV, a known villan in this series. another thing i'd liek to poitn out is that if Darth does end up being townie, whose to say that Luke hasn't been made scum.

 

 

this woudl make sense as to why you pushed for a mass role reveal,because who would doubt Luke being town. this is why i'm more comfy with a Nol lynch, because if he does flip town then i'll be looking at you and laya to flip as scum.

 

 

also, as i said before, i don't like the implications you leave for Nol eing left alive. you fail to mention that the scum woudl leave him alive if he was scum, instead choosing to post somethign which clears him instead. also, i don't like how your trying to direct Ama as to who to view. as far as i'm concerned we shoudl leave the whole "who the healer should veiw" in the back groudn so it leaves the scum guessing that much more.

[Nolder]

I'm Han Solo, vanilla and win with the town.

 

Jack you reek of scum to me right now. but because of his character claim VOTE: NOL

well that's fair of you

[bhskeeper11]

I thought AMA made the correct play tbh. If she has a target on her hade she can protect herself and stop the nk. But the mafia will think she is goin to protect herself so they go random, leaving Nolder alive because he is an easy lynch. So the mafia will probably not target Nol, or AMA tonight and in fact target someone random. Leaving myself, Christine, Kate and BG for AMA and the mafia to chose from. Or the mafia could go for Nol as the easy kill because they just need one more successful kill tonight

If we lynch a townie. The mafia an AMA both have a wifom tonight, it is one howeve that plays slightly in the towns advantage.

 

Perhaps I should defer to your experience, then. I just thought that her reveal was suspiciously paired with voting for you for starting the mass claiming, when it seems like a Town win-win. Though, if Nolder ends up being Mafia, I will be looking back to Ama for lynch.

[Nolder]

Actually Red it does include a partner. On the wiki it's listed as a mason/miller group. Check it ;)

you're using mafiascum's wiki right?

I'm...not seeing it dude

not only am I not seeing it I've never even heard of this variant of miller before

 

I'm not going to call you a liar since maybe I'm just being an idiot and skipping that paragraph or something but I will say that there are different types of most roles

the most common form of miller that I know of is townie that appears guilty to cops and that's what I am

no mason-esque group for me

 

here's the page I'm looking at for reference: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Miller

[Sedai]

It's under miller/mason groups. It's there. Red I believe your scum and your grasping suspicions are prrof enough for me to personally vet Nolder and incriminate Adella.

[Nolder]

sorry but my instincts say to go with Darth Vader. i think Nol and his team mates are hoping that we will go "why would Nol claim such an obviously bad character if he was scum" and avoid lynchign him. without a finder in play we have to go on face value for info.

which is exactly why you should look at my actions/behaviour and not the stupid role

 

there's no point in engaging in the WIFOM that follows a claim like that

look at how I'm playing not the role

 

point is, for the entire movie set (3 - 6) Vader was a bad guy. he did bad things and tried to kill everyone. his redemeaning himself is moot imo, becuase it still doesn't negate all the bad things Vader did.

well that's your opinion

personally I'd agree that Vader should be just a bad guy but perhaps our mod sees it another way and/or is just trying to be tricky?

[Nolder]

And what is LyLo?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lylo

 

it stands for Lynch or Lose

I prefer to call it Lynch Right Or Lose myself because the original implies there is a mislynch or something

I dunno

just personal preference

 

but anyway it just means town must lynch and lynch correctly or they lose the game the next day

[Nolder]

I thought AMA made the correct play tbh. If she has a target on her hade she can protect herself and stop the nk. But the mafia will think she is goin to protect herself so they go random, leaving Nolder alive because he is an easy lynch. So the mafia will probably not target Nol, or AMA tonight and in fact target someone random. Leaving myself, Christine, Kate and BG for AMA and the mafia to chose from. Or the mafia could go for Nol as the easy kill because they just need one more successful kill tonight

If we lynch a townie. The mafia an AMA both have a wifom tonight, it is one howeve that plays slightly in the towns advantage.

 

i don't like the implications this makes. fact is, Nol has claimed DV, a known villan in this series. another thing i'd liek to poitn out is that if Darth does end up being townie, whose to say that Luke hasn't been made scum.

not a damn thing

which is why you should look at actions and behavior and not character claims

[Nolder]

It's under miller/mason groups. It's there. Red I believe your scum and your grasping suspicions are prrof enough for me to personally vet Nolder and incriminate Adella.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Mason

 

it looks like you might be talking about the Neighbors variant? or the Best Friends variant?

 

regardless I will state again I have no partner or whatever

it's just me and I'm a Miller

[Red2111]

*shrugs* if someone claims a major villian i'm not goign to bat an eye;ash at voting them. it woudl be like someone claiming Padin Fain in a WoT mafia game but people saying "he killed a Mydraal so he's not all that bad of a guy"

 

sorry, just doesn't float my boat heres an updated list for reveals. for those who haven't , can you post yoru roles as well to add to the list for future ref.

 

Reveals:

 

BG - R2D2

Jack - Luke Skywalker

Christine - Chewbaka - Vanilla

Wolf - Princess Leia - Vanilla

Kate - Ewok - Vanilla

Red - Han Solo - Vanilla

Ama - Medical Robot - Healer

Nol - Darth Vader - Miller

Million - Lando Calrisien

 

 

Left to Reveal

 

Adella

 

 

It's under miller/mason groups. It's there. Red I believe your scum and your grasping suspicions are prrof enough for me to personally vet Nolder and incriminate Adella.

 

i'm not grasping for straws, i just don't trust you. i'mthe only perosn to bring up the point that "if Vader is town, then Luke could be scum" option and now your pushing for my lynch. coud be i've stumbled onto something.

 

liek i said, if the mod did make known goodies the scum and known baddies town; then this does explain to me why your almost giddy for a mass reveal and is almost enough to make me switch my vote from Nol to you

 

 

Which is exactly why you should look at my actions/behaviour and not the stupid role

 

there's no point in engaging in the WIFOM that follows a claim like that

look at how I'm playing not the role

 

not true IMO. there can be alot of gleam off the role and character you claim. i've already explained how claiming a Miller role with your character works to your benefit with the finder dead and the character your claiming.

 

 

point is, for the entire movie set (3 - 6) Vader was a bad guy. he did bad things and tried to kill everyone. his redemeaning himself is moot imo, becuase it still doesn't negate all the bad things Vader did.

well that's your opinion

personally I'd agree that Vader should be just a bad guy but perhaps our mod sees it another way and/or is just trying to be tricky?

 

i realize this, which is why i'm pressuring and FoSing jack so hard.

 

 

especailly when he says stuff like "You'd vote Vader over Luke Ama??" it makes me suspect that something isn't right; especially with how giddy Jack is over these reveals and how center stage he's pushed them.

 

 

 

i woudl suggest we vote the only person not to claim and leave it to the finder, but thats no good. Jack or Nol will give us the most info as far as game set up, and going off player reactions souly i'm starting to lean more towards Jack. i say these two, because they have uncontested main character claims. and will directly clear or implicate the other as far as alignment.

 

for instance if we lynch Nol and he flips town, then chances are Luke is scum and that as good as outs jack. on the flip side, if Nol flips scum, this will clear Jack imo.

[Red2111]

you know, UNVOTE VOTE: JACK

 

Jack your a LLL, stop twisting words about the Miller role. your caught in your game and now i'm much more inclined to believe Nol and his claim of Miller. i see too much benefit to this mass role claim for you and the pieces add up much too good for you not to be scum imo.

 

 

this si a direct C&P fromt eh Mafia wiki specifically about the Miller role. i haven't left out anything and heres the link to prove it if you8 want to make sure i didn't leave anythign out

 

 

Miller

 

From MafiaWiki

Jump to: navigation, searchMiller Alias:

• Outsider

Alignment:

• Pro-town

Role type:

• Manipulative

Choice: none A Miller (sometimes called an Outsider) is a role or role modifier such that the player passively returns an unfavorable result (i.e. Guilty) if investigated by a Cop.

 

For obvious reasons, standard Millers are Town.

 

 

Contents

[hide]

• <LI class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1">

1 Variations <LI class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2">2 Use and Balance <LI class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3">3 Play Advice4 Origin

if (window.showTocToggle) { var tocShowText = "show"; var tocHideText = "hide"; showTocToggle(); }

Variations

Some moderators take the "passive guilt" concept to the point where Millers also investigate unfavorably to other roles (i.e. Gunsmith). Alternatively, specialized Millers can be created specifically for investigative roles other than Cop.

 

Sometimes, a Miller may be unaware of their Miller state -- that part of their role is hidden from them. This is used in some Open setups (like C9++) to prevent the Miller from functioning like a Named Townie. An unaware Miller in a closed setup is sometimes considered bastardly, though.

 

A rather controversial twist is the Death Miller, whose alignment is shown as "Mafia" by the Moderator upon death. This has been argued and discussed in Ethics Threads as a source of distrust in the Moderator, which most people feel should not be tolerated. Thus, the Death Miller is an particularly scarcely-used role even in bastard mod games.

 

 

Use and Balance

The foremost use of Millers is to weaken the power of a Cop. A Cop may prematurely claim with a guilty result upon the Miller, outting himself to the Mafia; or a Mafia member with a guilty result upon them may claim to be a Miller to avoid being lynched (though this doesn't usually work in practice).

 

Less commonly, a Miller may be put into a game without a Cop, as a red herring.

 

Self-aware Millers may also be considered Named Townies, as there is usually not more than one in a setup.

 

 

Play Advice

If you are a Miller, there are two schools of thought about optimal play:

 

The first school of thought is that you should claim immediately, ideally in your opening post. This ensures that the Cop will not waste an investigation on you. It becomes more likely that you will be lynched or shot by a Vigilante, however; otherwise, it would be too easy for Mafia to fakeclaim Miller as well.

 

The second school of thought is that you should not claim, but should play in such a way as to not get investigated; ideally, you would get yourself killed at Night. If investigated, however, you should expect to get lynched.

 

 

Origin

The original Outsider role appears to have been independently developed by the Princeton Brotherhood in MeatWorld as early as 2002 and, locally, Norinel in late 2003.

 

 

no where does it say Millers are put on a team Jack. your twisting the role for your own benefit and your entire case agaisnt me hinges on calling me a LLL over my correct interpretation of this role.