Egwene and the Wise Ones

[francy]

Okay, so when Egwene, Nyneave and Elayne are in Tear they pose as full sisters, partly so that they will have greater influence with the Lords and Ladies of Tear. Partly because they enjoyed being thought of as full AS. And for other reasons, I'm sure.

 

Then they become friendly with Aviendah, but Egwene can't tell her that she isn't a full sister because the more people that know a secret the greater chance of that secret being revealed. She meets Amys for the first time in TAR, and she introduces herself as Aes Sedai.

 

Fair enough, she is in the Stone, after all, and she couldn't tell Amys she was Accepted at that point...

 

But then they leave the Stone, and are now in the Waste - and Egwene continues to let the Aiel believe she is AS.

 

Why? They aren't influenced by her being AS, they consider her to be an apprentice - she actually had greater standing as an apprentice - being AS doesn't gain her any brownie points at all - even amongst the Maidens. So when she is jogging her 50 laps around the camp with Avi, (the punishment Baer gave them), and Avi calls her "Aes Sedai" while they are chatting, Egwene feels guilty about allowing her friend to believe the lie. Again, she muses that the more people that knew the secret... Blah blah blah. But the secret wasn't even necessary anymore. It hadn't been, from the time she appeared in the Waste. It irks me that she just didn't come clean.

 

She could have told the Wise Ones when they first met in the flesh, when she is alone with them after Moiraine ran off to go through the rings. Instead she starts trying to get them to begin her training. The Wise Ones don't have any love of Wetlanders, and they probably would have been sympathetic to her and need to try and influence the Lords of Tear, those honourless Wetlanders, in any way she could.

 

I know the Wise Ones liked her, they wanted her to stay and train to become one of them instead, but her behaviour at times was sullen, petulant, demanding - I even think that they may have lost some of their awe towards AS because of Egwene herself. For instance, I think it was Baer that told her not to look so sulky or sullen or something, when she didn't get her way in the sweat tent on one occasion. Hardly AS behaviour...

 

Anyway... I do like Egwene - not trying to start an Egwene bash...

 

:-)

 

Just want to know what other people think about why she continued her deception - what good it did? Irksome.

[Luckers]

I suppose its one of those 'once you've begun you just go with the flow' sort of things.

[USURP888]

It's a white lie, a necessary one that Egwene couldn't get out of. You must remember she is young and to be honest I can empathize with her a bit on this. She did finally admit the truth to the Wise Ones when it was time for her to go so she never really wanted the deception to be viewed as the reality imo.

[francy]

It's a white lie, a necessary one that Egwene couldn't get out of. You must remember she is young and to be honest I can empathize with her a bit on this. She did finally admit the truth to the Wise Ones when it was time for her to go so she never really wanted the deception to be viewed as the reality imo.

 

Yeah, actually, you are right!

 

She was young. I guess I lost sight of that - how young she was in the earlier books, she grew into being a mature strong young woman so fast that I guess I tend to think she should have been that mature in the beginning as well.

 

Thanks for replying - I'll be more forgiving towards her now, as she and the Aiel make their way out of Rhuidien to follow Couladin!

 

:-)

[randsc]

It's not just that she was young.

 

The Aiel don't allow apprentices in TaR unsupervised. She didn't want to be seen as the equivalent of an apprentice.

 

No need to bash her for this, but you guys are being easier on her for this deception that she was on herself!

[Hybrid]

I suppose its one of those 'once you've begun you just go with the flow' sort of things.

 

This.

 

She wanted to tell the truth, but she probably knew it wasn't going to be easy. So she put it off until she had a motivation to do so. In her case, this was the summons to Salidar.

[Himiko]

It's not just that she was young.

 

The Aiel don't allow apprentices in TaR unsupervised. She didn't want to be seen as the equivalent of an apprentice.

 

No need to bash her for this, but you guys are being easier on her for this deception that she was on herself!

 

But the Wise Ones still saw her as an Apprentice while she was training with them, and she was still forbidden from going to T'A'R unsupervised, despite the fact that she was supposedly AS- unless you mean she thought that she wouldn't be seen as an apprentice if they thought she was AS (I can't remember if this is the case or not). Still doesn't explain why she didn't come clean after it became apparent that her status in the WT didn't affect her status in the Waste.

 

Personally, it seems like gratuitous examples of how nobody in the WoT tells each other anything XD Bless them all.

[Mats Spare Hat]

It's not just that she was young.

 

The Aiel don't allow apprentices in TaR unsupervised. She didn't want to be seen as the equivalent of an apprentice.

 

No need to bash her for this, but you guys are being easier on her for this deception that she was on herself!

 

But the Wise Ones still saw her as an Apprentice while she was training with them, and she was still forbidden from going to T'A'R unsupervised, despite the fact that she was supposedly AS- unless you mean she thought that she wouldn't be seen as an apprentice if they thought she was AS (I can't remember if this is the case or not). Still doesn't explain why she didn't come clean after it became apparent that her status in the WT didn't affect her status in the Waste.

 

Personally, it seems like gratuitous examples of how nobody in the WoT tells each other anything XD Bless them all.

 

 

Gotta figure if you're already on thin ice for jaunting around TAR by yourself, you're not going to dig your hole any deeper & risk pissing somebody off to the point where they won't teach you any further...

 

I mean you could so far as to say at that point the Aiel still held/still do hold the belief that they failed the Aes Sedai in the past - that they owe a debt, so to speak. Thereby as an Aes Sedai, or being able to pass as one, you're in a situation to where the Aiel - who in the case of Egwene already have the want to teach her, are sort of ingrained culturally as wise ones that it's important they not fail the Aes Sedai, again.

 

So, at the point where Egwene realizes she's not afforded any particular perks for being an AS, it's not that much of a stretch to believe, in her case or your own if you were in that spot, that the wise ones would give you the ole heave-ho if you weren't actually AS.

 

In other words why risk the possibility, when you've barely even started to receive the very knowledge you set out to acquire from the wise ones in the first place. Even if Egwene had been completely ostracized, when she did finally reveal what she wasn't, she'd still be able to take away all the knowledge & training she'd already received.

[Durinax]

I thought it was because she thouht that if she revealed that she was fundamentally lying to them about who she was that they would turn her away and not teach her anymore

[francy]

I thought it was because she thouht that if she revealed that she was fundamentally lying to them about who she was that they would turn her away and not teach her anymore

 

Yeah, but thats well into her training - she was with them for months. I can't really understand why, when they first met on the slopes of Chaendaer (sorry, spelling), after Moiraine left to go through the rings, she didn't just say "by the way, I had to lie to the Tairens but I would like you to know the truth...". They wouldn't have sent her away at that point, Amys wanted to teach her, AS or not, I think because Amys simply didn't want Egwene killing herself in TAR out of ignorance. They probably would have respected her for her honesty.

 

Then Egwene was caught entering TAR after the Wise Ones said not to and Amys taught her that scary lesson - I agree, she couldn't risk telling them at that point because they would have been pretty pissed, she was on shaky ground from disobeying already.

 

I can accept the reason being that she was young...

[jsbrads]

As bad and silly a lie that was it doesn't compare to her lie about entering TAR, when she first accepted to take instruction, she promises to not enter TAR, when she should have said, you know I would really like to unconditionally promise not to enter TAR, but I already promised to meet my girlfriends for drinks next week, so I kind of have to tell them that I really can't meet them anymore or if you think it is okay for me to go chaperoned... I am surprised they weren't more upset with her over that.