How was it that Rand had so much power in VoG?

[Entreri]

Actual quotes from RJ And Brandon:

 

Brandon confirmed to me post signing last summer that RJ had nothing to compare male vs. female strength. He kept two separate systems, one for women and one for men.- Linda

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.- RJ

 

There's whole lot of stuff taken from RJ on http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/04/male-forsaken-and-their-strength-in.html

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

Fascinating read.

 

 

Men are much stronger in the Power, as stated by Asmodean, confirmed by Moghidien. Akin to arm strength. According to Asmodean, in the greater scheme of things for men being stronger, women can link without aid (book 5, he explains so a child could understand).

 

(1)Stronger in the Power = ability to shield weaker opponents holding the Power, abilty to break a shield. As mentioned ad nausuem in the books.

 

(2)And GENERALLY greater strength = more potent/larger Weave/area of effect. But other factors are invovled in #2 as well, TALENT in a particular Power (e.g. Earth).

 

(3)Women have greater dexterity, which means that they could Weave as many threads as men, even though they are much weaker in the Power. For example, Lanfear (or Alivia) max is say 13-14 Weaves at once, Rand/Ishamael maximum is 14 Weaves at once = "can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could".

 

However, this does not negate men superior strength.

 

If it did, men are far weaker than women. Why? Women can link at will = HUGE advantage over men. The Dragon, Nae'blis = Woman. And the women would confront men face-to-face and defeat them. Instead? 13 linked chasing 1 man, 6 to hold his shield. No women Chosen having face-to-face confrontation with Chosen men, or with LTT.

 

Lastly, Rahvin said Sammael or himself would "OVERWHELM" Lanfear or Grandael, but since the WOMEN ARE MUCH WEAKER in the Power, they would "LINK".

 

 

Q.E.D.

[WhiskyJack]

As I said before, he will even deny what RJ said...I cannot be sure if he is not trolling.

[Entreri]

As I said before, he will even deny what RJ said...

 

Because you are clearly misunderstanding what he has said, as I proved using the books.

[WhiskyJack]

As I said before, he will even deny what RJ said...

 

Because you are clearly misunderstanding what he has said, as I proved using the books.

 

I don't think you even know whats in the book.

 

Simple example is Graendel. You claimed that "chosen" know strength of everyone. That was a bold faced lie as shown by Graendal Than you changed your tack and claimed that Granedel eventually came to realize (and how old are they actually since they all know stuff) that Demandred was stronger. She didn't realize anything. She was measuring people strength based on their ATTITUDE! She had no clue how strong Demandred really was. She changed her opinion purely on the basis of behavior, not some display of Saidin.

 

I can rant on and on but it be like speaking to a wall.

[Entreri]

Actual quotes from RJ And Brandon:

 

Brandon confirmed to me post signing last summer that RJ had nothing to compare male vs. female strength. He kept two separate systems, one for women and one for men.- Linda

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.- RJ

 

There's whole lot of stuff taken from RJ on http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/04/male-forsaken-and-their-strength-in.html

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

Fascinating read.

 

That is interesting but it does not reflect what happens in the books. Rand/Ishy are the strongest males alive while Lanfear is strong as a female can be. In the battle at the dock..Jordan has confirmed that if Rand had listened to LTT he could have beaten Lanfear(who was also using an extermely powerful angreal almost a sa'angreal)..and among the forsaken no one(including Lanfear) has dared to confront Ishy. So either Rand/Ishy are so uniquely powerful that the

"Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree."

does not apply to them or there is an inconsistency in the books.

 

 

See my explaination.

 

Men =/= Women, otherwise someone like Rahvin would never mention that he or Sammael could overwhelm Lanfear and Grandael, but the women would link.

 

Otherwise Asmodean would not mention the ability of the women to link in order to equate the two sexes (women being much weaker).

 

There would never be a need for Moghdien to mention that men are stronger if men=women.

 

Yes Jordan did confirm that Rand would have defeated Lanfear. And this Rand had not gained his full OP strength.

[WhiskyJack]

Actual quotes from RJ And Brandon:

 

Brandon confirmed to me post signing last summer that RJ had nothing to compare male vs. female strength. He kept two separate systems, one for women and one for men.- Linda

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.- RJ

 

There's whole lot of stuff taken from RJ on http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/04/male-forsaken-and-their-strength-in.html

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

Fascinating read.

 

That is interesting but it does not reflect what happens in the books. Rand/Ishy are the strongest males alive while Lanfear is strong as a female can be. In the battle at the dock..Jordan has confirmed that if Rand had listened to LTT he could have beaten Lanfear(who was also using an extermely powerful angreal almost a sa'angreal)..and among the forsaken no one(including Lanfear) has dared to confront Ishy. So either Rand/Ishy are so uniquely powerful that the

"Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree."

does not apply to them or there is an inconsistency in the books.

 

 

See my explaination.

 

Men =/= Women, otherwise someone like Rahvin would never mention that he or Sammael could overwhelm Lanfear and Grandael, but the women would link.

 

Otherwise Asmodean would not mention the ability of the women to link in order to equate the two sexes (women being much weaker).

 

There would never be a need for Moghdien to mention that men are stronger if men=women.

Yes Jordan did confirm that Rand would have defeated Lanfear. And this Rand had not gained his full OP strength.

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

[Vermillion]

Robert Jordan seemed uncertain of things himself at times lol.

 

I would say that Rand's power comes from something more. Obviously, he is different with the ability remove death and decay of the dark one and clear the clouds. Why wouldn't he have more power to do what's needed?

 

I think he maybe like his children in Avi's vision always holding the source or connected to it directly. From his child's prospective they breathed channeling and everyone else seemed clumsily doing it. Likely has something to do with Rand's current condition.

 

Rand also said that the the pattern has set it so that he will make it to the last battle. Thus it was impossible for the woman to shield him. They couldn't even talk.

[WhiskyJack]

Robert Jordan seemed uncertain of things himself at times lol.

 

I would say that Rand's power comes from something more. Obviously, he is different with the ability remove death and decay of the dark one and clear the clouds. Why wouldn't he have more power to do what's needed?

 

I think he maybe like his children in Avi's vision always holding the source or connected to it directly. From his child's prospective they breathed channeling and everyone else seemed clumsily doing it. Likely has something to do with Rand's current condition.

 

Rand also said that the the pattern has set it so that he will make it to the last battle. Thus it was impossible for the woman to shield him. They couldn't even talk.

 

You said it right! It's the other power, power that bends people to his will. That's what Eqwene meant. Nothing to do with his strength in OP. He never needed OP to break those shields. Egwene added the words "without struggle" to prove that he needed to no muscle flexing. I mean doesn't matter how strong you are, you will struggle a little bit. And with 2 circles...to do so would require power Rand has not shown yet, Maradon notwithstanding.

[Entreri]

As I said before, he will even deny what RJ said...

 

Because you are clearly misunderstanding what he has said, as I proved using the books.

 

I don't think you even know whats in the book.

 

Simple example is Graendel. You claimed that "chosen" know strength of everyone. That was a bold faced lie as shown by Graendal Than you changed your tack and claimed that Granedel eventually came to realize (and how old are they actually since they all know stuff) that Demandred was stronger. She didn't realize anything. She was measuring people strength based on their ATTITUDE! She had no clue how strong Demandred really was. She changed her opinion purely on the basis of behavior, not some display of Saidin.

 

I can rant on and on but it be like speaking to a wall.

 

I do not know how much more I can simplify this, but I will try:

 

The Chosen do know the OP strength of other Chosen and have a general idea of their channeling skill level (they have known each other for decades and in some cases centuries in AoL). Messana "Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear" said to Demandred. Rahvin/Sammael would "overwhelm" Lanfear and Grandael.

 

However, nobody can know the full extent of one's abilities in other areas, such as devising strategy (think of this as cunning, anticipating others), which is something Grandael excels at and can be used to take out much stronger opponents (OP strenght, OP skill).

 

Grandael realizes that being a cold hearted tactician (Semirhage) may not be always good because a more passionate person (Demandred) would take action someone like Semirhage would never consider.

 

Here Grandael's mention of strength does not mean OP strength or ability to overwhelm in a one-on-one face-to-face battle. Demandred is "almost" LTT in every aspect. Semirhage is slightly weaker than Nynaeve, weaker than Grandael and very much weaker than Lanfear. Do you understand?

 

If your assumption were so Semirhage > Demandred in a face-to-face one-on-one OP battle.

 

Women unlinked >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Men unlinked

 

= Both the Creator and Shai'tan are FOOLS to chose men as being their #1.

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

[WhiskyJack]

edit..

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

 

 

And this means what? That his personality is more "dangerous". That he is more POWERFUL tactician? Why is that Demandred never fought LTT? Aginor did. How come he couldn't beat 1 ashaman's and 2 Aes Sedai in link? How come Rahvin and Bel'al had balls to challenge Rand but not Demandred?

[Entreri]

Actual quotes from RJ And Brandon:

 

Brandon confirmed to me post signing last summer that RJ had nothing to compare male vs. female strength. He kept two separate systems, one for women and one for men.- Linda

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.- RJ

 

There's whole lot of stuff taken from RJ on http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/04/male-forsaken-and-their-strength-in.html

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

Fascinating read.

 

That is interesting but it does not reflect what happens in the books. Rand/Ishy are the strongest males alive while Lanfear is strong as a female can be. In the battle at the dock..Jordan has confirmed that if Rand had listened to LTT he could have beaten Lanfear(who was also using an extermely powerful angreal almost a sa'angreal)..and among the forsaken no one(including Lanfear) has dared to confront Ishy. So either Rand/Ishy are so uniquely powerful that the

"Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree."

does not apply to them or there is an inconsistency in the books.

 

 

See my explaination.

 

Men =/= Women, otherwise someone like Rahvin would never mention that he or Sammael could overwhelm Lanfear and Grandael, but the women would link.

 

Otherwise Asmodean would not mention the ability of the women to link in order to equate the two sexes (women being much weaker).

 

There would never be a need for Moghdien to mention that men are stronger if men=women.

Yes Jordan did confirm that Rand would have defeated Lanfear. And this Rand had not gained his full OP strength.

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

 

You are just being childish, I have already shown why you are incorrect.

 

If you want further confirmation, you can ask Brandon about men vs. women in the Power.

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

 

You are just being childish, I have already shown why you are incorrect.

 

If you want further confirmation, you can ask Brandon about men vs. women in the Power.

 

 

Shown what? Please do tell. Are you telling me that Rand was channeling more power than Lanfear? Have you proven that? Is that what you have shown and want me to ask Brandon? Why do I care about random question. I am asking you the specific. WAS RAND CHANNELING LESS OR MORE POWER THAN LANFEAR DURING THE FIGHT? Not that hard to answer..

 

And since you keep repeating Rahvin, he was LYING. Even RJ has confimed that you cannot take forsaken for what they say. I posted 2 links from 13 depository which proves that Rahvin's comment was real as Ishmael claiming that he and LTT had fought countless and Dragon has always lost..blah blah blah...

 

 

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/04/male-forsaken-and-their-strength-in.html

 

The author has told us directly that the Forsaken lie frequently to one another and themselves. It is therefore very difficult to decipher their relative strengths and weaknesses when self-delusion and fallacy are a major part of their characters. When Rahvin states that he could overwhelm Graendal or Lanfear, or when Mesaana claims that she matches up well with Semirhage – how much credibility could one place on these statements? According to the author, they would not admit their fallibility in any area.

[Entreri]

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

 

 

And this means what? That his personality is more "dangerous". That he is more POWERFUL tactician? Why is that Demandred never fought LTT? Aginor did. How come he couldn't beat 1 ashaman's and 2 Aes Sedai in link? How come Rahvin and Bel'al had balls to challenge Rand but not Demandred?

 

 

I see you finally understand why Demandred >> Semirhage in a face-to-face one-on-one battle.

 

Semirhage is slighly weaker than Nynaeve, meanwhile Demandred is "almost" as strong as LTT and "almost" LTT's skill level in the Power.

 

For this point, you have to use Grandael's PoV. She is very likely the smartest of the Chosen, even LTT/Rand knew he could never out smart her (he does not give this kind of credit to ANYONE else). Grandael knows the human mind better than probably anyone else ever did = probably the most DANGEROUS of the Chosen.

 

Just because you are stronger, more skillfull in the Power (Demandred) =/= win against weaker opponent. Ambushes, setting up proper pawns, events to take out the stronger opponent...etc.

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

 

 

And this means what? That his personality is more "dangerous". That he is more POWERFUL tactician? Why is that Demandred never fought LTT? Aginor did. How come he couldn't beat 1 ashaman's and 2 Aes Sedai in link? How come Rahvin and Bel'al had balls to challenge Rand but not Demandred?

 

 

I see you finally understand why Demandred >> Semirhage in a face-to-face one-on-one battle.

 

Semirhage is slighly weaker than Nynaeve, meanwhile Demandred is "almost" as strong as LTT and "almost" LTT's skill level in the Power.

 

For this point, you have to use Grandael's PoV. She is very likely the smartest of the Chosen, even LTT/Rand knew he could never out smart her (he does not give this kind of credit to ANYONE else). Grandael knows the human mind better than probably anyone else ever did = probably the most DANGEROUS of the Chosen.

=/= win against weaker opponent. Ambushes, setting up proper pawns, events to take out the stronger opponent...etc.

 

 

WTF? My point only proved that Demandred is more talk and less show. And that made me understand how dangerous he is? Because he lost against 3 weak channlers in link! Awesome!

This is second time I guess. First time I posted something on Eqwene and you claimed I was supporting your point!

 

 

 

Just because you are stronger, more skillfull in the Power (Demandred)

 

LOLOL..Everytime you don't know what to say, you invent hypothetical situation! Why didn't people then right and left ambush LTT and kill him? I am pretty sure Demandred could have caught Rand way too many time in open combat or even ambushed him. Since we are talking "hypothetical"... In reality he avoids fight because HE SUCKS at fighting. He claimed in tWH that he was a general and not a soldier and performed weakly against 1 Ashaman and 2 Aes sedai in link, none of them particularly strong in power.

 

We know for fact that Aginor was only after LTT/Ishy in strength and yet Dashiva was always running scared. Raw power means nothing unless the gap is beyond hope.

[Entreri]

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

 

You are just being childish, I have already shown why you are incorrect.

 

If you want further confirmation, you can ask Brandon about men vs. women in the Power.

 

 

Shown what? Please do tell. Are you telling me that Rand was channeling more power than Lanfear? Have you proven that? Is that what you have shown and want me to ask Brandon? Why do I care about random question. I am asking you the specific. WAS RAND CHANNELING LESS OR MORE POWER THAN LANFEAR DURING THE FIGHT? Not that hard to answer..

 

And since you keep repeating Rahvin, he was LYING. Even RJ has confimed that you cannot take forsaken for what they say. I posted 2 links from 13 depository which proves that Rahvin's comment was real as Ishmael claiming that he and LTT had fought countless and Dragon has always lost..blah blah blah...

 

 

Rahvin > Lanfear Sammael > Lanfear. Rahvin would never include Sammael in his comment if he was boasting. Q.E.D

 

Does the 13 depository have comments from the authors regarding this scenario?

 

Men are MUCH STRONGER in the Power than women.

 

Was Rand channeling less or more power than Lanfear? That is difficult to say, given Rand's superior strength + inferior angreal vs. Lanfear's inferior strength + superior angreal. It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight. There are too many variables to have a definite answer.

 

See Alivia vs. Cyndane on the impact of skill level.

[Entreri]

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

 

 

And this means what? That his personality is more "dangerous". That he is more POWERFUL tactician? Why is that Demandred never fought LTT? Aginor did. How come he couldn't beat 1 ashaman's and 2 Aes Sedai in link? How come Rahvin and Bel'al had balls to challenge Rand but not Demandred?

 

 

I see you finally understand why Demandred >> Semirhage in a face-to-face one-on-one battle.

 

Semirhage is slighly weaker than Nynaeve, meanwhile Demandred is "almost" as strong as LTT and "almost" LTT's skill level in the Power.

 

For this point, you have to use Grandael's PoV. She is very likely the smartest of the Chosen, even LTT/Rand knew he could never out smart her (he does not give this kind of credit to ANYONE else). Grandael knows the human mind better than probably anyone else ever did = probably the most DANGEROUS of the Chosen.

=/= win against weaker opponent. Ambushes, setting up proper pawns, events to take out the stronger opponent...etc.

 

 

WTF? My point only proved that Demandred is more talk and less show. And that made me understand how dangerous he is? Because he lost against 3 weak channlers in link! Awesome!

 

 

 

Just because you are stronger, more skillfull in the Power (Demandred)

 

LOLOL..Everytime you don't know what toy say, you invent hypothetical situation! Why didn't people then right and left ambush LTT and kill him? I am pretty sure Demandred could have caught Rand way too many time in open combat or even ambushed him. Since we are talking "hypothetical"... In reality he avoids fight because HE SUCKS at fighting. He claimed in tWH that a general and not a soldier and performed weakly against 1 Ashaman and 2 Aes sedai in link, none of them particularly strong in power.

 

 

 

You are becoming a bit hysterical.

 

Mat btw has a similar saying and I assume you think he also sucks at fighting?

 

Demandred being "almost" LTT...I suppose now you think LTT sucks as well?

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

 

You are just being childish, I have already shown why you are incorrect.

 

If you want further confirmation, you can ask Brandon about men vs. women in the Power.

 

 

Shown what? Please do tell. Are you telling me that Rand was channeling more power than Lanfear? Have you proven that? Is that what you have shown and want me to ask Brandon? Why do I care about random question. I am asking you the specific. WAS RAND CHANNELING LESS OR MORE POWER THAN LANFEAR DURING THE FIGHT? Not that hard to answer..

 

And since you keep repeating Rahvin, he was LYING. Even RJ has confimed that you cannot take forsaken for what they say. I posted 2 links from 13 depository which proves that Rahvin's comment was real as Ishmael claiming that he and LTT had fought countless and Dragon has always lost..blah blah blah...

 

 

Rahvin > Lanfear Sammael > Lanfear. Rahvin would never include Sammael in his comment if he was boasting. Q.E.D

 

Does the 13 depository have comments from the authors regarding this scenario?

 

Men are MUCH STRONGER in the Power than women.

 

Was Rand channeling less or more power than Lanfear? That is difficult to say, given Rand's superior strength + inferior angreal vs. Lanfear's inferior strength + superior angreal. It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight. There are too many variables to have a definite answer.

 

See Alivia vs. Cyndane on the impact of skill level.

 

Read the link..

 

I mean this is just funny:

It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight

 

I mean really, you will just invent ANYTHING to support your point. RJ actually had a scale and he put 21 level for women(Lanfear) and 24 for men (LTT/ISHY). So strongest man is 3 levels above strongest women. Not that much gap really. Now Rand was probably at 22 at the time and Lanfear 21. So do explain to me how he could have held "more power". If he didn't and LTT could have beaten Lanfear by skill (using less power), how exactly that proves you right?

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

 

 

And this means what? That his personality is more "dangerous". That he is more POWERFUL tactician? Why is that Demandred never fought LTT? Aginor did. How come he couldn't beat 1 ashaman's and 2 Aes Sedai in link? How come Rahvin and Bel'al had balls to challenge Rand but not Demandred?

 

 

I see you finally understand why Demandred >> Semirhage in a face-to-face one-on-one battle.

 

Semirhage is slighly weaker than Nynaeve, meanwhile Demandred is "almost" as strong as LTT and "almost" LTT's skill level in the Power.

 

For this point, you have to use Grandael's PoV. She is very likely the smartest of the Chosen, even LTT/Rand knew he could never out smart her (he does not give this kind of credit to ANYONE else). Grandael knows the human mind better than probably anyone else ever did = probably the most DANGEROUS of the Chosen.

=/= win against weaker opponent. Ambushes, setting up proper pawns, events to take out the stronger opponent...etc.

 

 

WTF? My point only proved that Demandred is more talk and less show. And that made me understand how dangerous he is? Because he lost against 3 weak channlers in link! Awesome!

 

 

 

Just because you are stronger, more skillfull in the Power (Demandred)

 

LOLOL..Everytime you don't know what toy say, you invent hypothetical situation! Why didn't people then right and left ambush LTT and kill him? I am pretty sure Demandred could have caught Rand way too many time in open combat or even ambushed him. Since we are talking "hypothetical"... In reality he avoids fight because HE SUCKS at fighting. He claimed in tWH that a general and not a soldier and performed weakly against 1 Ashaman and 2 Aes sedai in link, none of them particularly strong in power.

 

 

 

You are becoming a bit hysterical.

 

Mat btw has a similar saying and I assume you think he also sucks at fighting?

 

Demandred being "almost" LTT...I suppose now you think LTT sucks as well?

 

SHOW ME A SINGLE QUOTE THAT SAYS THAT DEMANDRED WAS ALMOST LTT IN FIGHTING? He was almost LTT in skill and achievement and CLOSE IN POWER but not in fighting. Aginor was almost LTT in strength and yet Dashiva was nothing more than a coward. Ishy was LTT's match in power and yet he lost, twice. You are so hungover the idea of raw power that you again and again ignoring the actual fights and keep harping about what someone said and what could have been, NONE OF WHICH CAN BE PROVEN.

[Entreri]

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

 

You are just being childish, I have already shown why you are incorrect.

 

If you want further confirmation, you can ask Brandon about men vs. women in the Power.

 

 

Shown what? Please do tell. Are you telling me that Rand was channeling more power than Lanfear? Have you proven that? Is that what you have shown and want me to ask Brandon? Why do I care about random question. I am asking you the specific. WAS RAND CHANNELING LESS OR MORE POWER THAN LANFEAR DURING THE FIGHT? Not that hard to answer..

 

And since you keep repeating Rahvin, he was LYING. Even RJ has confimed that you cannot take forsaken for what they say. I posted 2 links from 13 depository which proves that Rahvin's comment was real as Ishmael claiming that he and LTT had fought countless and Dragon has always lost..blah blah blah...

 

 

Rahvin > Lanfear Sammael > Lanfear. Rahvin would never include Sammael in his comment if he was boasting. Q.E.D

 

Does the 13 depository have comments from the authors regarding this scenario?

 

Men are MUCH STRONGER in the Power than women.

 

Was Rand channeling less or more power than Lanfear? That is difficult to say, given Rand's superior strength + inferior angreal vs. Lanfear's inferior strength + superior angreal. It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight. There are too many variables to have a definite answer.

 

See Alivia vs. Cyndane on the impact of skill level.

 

Read the link..Jesus man, you are really are unbeleiable.

 

I mean this is just funny:

It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight

 

I mean really, you will just invent ANYTHING to support your point. RJ actually had a scale and he put 21 level for women(Lanfear) and 24 for men (LTT/ISHY). So strongest man is 3 levels above strongest women. Not that much gap really. Now Rand was probably at 22 at the time and Lanfear 21. So do explain to me how he could have held "more power". If he didn't and LTT could have beaten Lanfear by skill (using less power), how exactly that proves you right?

 

You are assuming the levels are linear in scale: 21/24 = 88%. Then men would NOT BE much stronger than women, and the difference WOULD NOT BE similar to arm strength. The difference would essentailly be inconsquential.

 

With almost no difference in men and women, there would not be any need for 13 linked AS, 6 linked to hold a man.

 

Let me once again spell it out:

 

If the strongest man is equally skilled as the strongest woman, in a one-on-one face-to-face battle, the man would win, given no balefire is used. Balefire = great equalizer.

[Entreri]

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

 

 

And this means what? That his personality is more "dangerous". That he is more POWERFUL tactician? Why is that Demandred never fought LTT? Aginor did. How come he couldn't beat 1 ashaman's and 2 Aes Sedai in link? How come Rahvin and Bel'al had balls to challenge Rand but not Demandred?

 

 

I see you finally understand why Demandred >> Semirhage in a face-to-face one-on-one battle.

 

Semirhage is slighly weaker than Nynaeve, meanwhile Demandred is "almost" as strong as LTT and "almost" LTT's skill level in the Power.

 

For this point, you have to use Grandael's PoV. She is very likely the smartest of the Chosen, even LTT/Rand knew he could never out smart her (he does not give this kind of credit to ANYONE else). Grandael knows the human mind better than probably anyone else ever did = probably the most DANGEROUS of the Chosen.

=/= win against weaker opponent. Ambushes, setting up proper pawns, events to take out the stronger opponent...etc.

 

 

WTF? My point only proved that Demandred is more talk and less show. And that made me understand how dangerous he is? Because he lost against 3 weak channlers in link! Awesome!

 

 

 

Just because you are stronger, more skillfull in the Power (Demandred)

 

LOLOL..Everytime you don't know what toy say, you invent hypothetical situation! Why didn't people then right and left ambush LTT and kill him? I am pretty sure Demandred could have caught Rand way too many time in open combat or even ambushed him. Since we are talking "hypothetical"... In reality he avoids fight because HE SUCKS at fighting. He claimed in tWH that a general and not a soldier and performed weakly against 1 Ashaman and 2 Aes sedai in link, none of them particularly strong in power.

 

 

 

You are becoming a bit hysterical.

 

Mat btw has a similar saying and I assume you think he also sucks at fighting?

 

Demandred being "almost" LTT...I suppose now you think LTT sucks as well?

 

SHOW ME A SINGLE QUOTE THAT SAYS THAT DEMANDRED WAS ALMOST LTT IN FIGHTING? He was almost LTT in skill and achievement and CLOSE IN POWER but not in fighting. Aginor was almost LTT in strength and yet Dashiva was nothing more than a coward. Ishy was LTT's match in power and yet he lost, twice. You are so hungover the idea of raw power that you again and again ignoring the actual fights and keep harping about what someone said and what could have been, NONE OF WHICH CAN BE PROVEN.

 

 

I have no desire to waste more time with you having a never ending dicussion. I have proven why you are wrong, but providing evidence from the books.

 

Have a good day.

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

Grandael: "He very well might be the most powerful of the three, more DANGEROUS than Semirhage" (emphasis added). Book 13, page 39 of the hardcover version.

 

 

And this means what? That his personality is more "dangerous". That he is more POWERFUL tactician? Why is that Demandred never fought LTT? Aginor did. How come he couldn't beat 1 ashaman's and 2 Aes Sedai in link? How come Rahvin and Bel'al had balls to challenge Rand but not Demandred?

 

 

I see you finally understand why Demandred >> Semirhage in a face-to-face one-on-one battle.

 

Semirhage is slighly weaker than Nynaeve, meanwhile Demandred is "almost" as strong as LTT and "almost" LTT's skill level in the Power.

 

For this point, you have to use Grandael's PoV. She is very likely the smartest of the Chosen, even LTT/Rand knew he could never out smart her (he does not give this kind of credit to ANYONE else). Grandael knows the human mind better than probably anyone else ever did = probably the most DANGEROUS of the Chosen.

=/= win against weaker opponent. Ambushes, setting up proper pawns, events to take out the stronger opponent...etc.

 

 

WTF? My point only proved that Demandred is more talk and less show. And that made me understand how dangerous he is? Because he lost against 3 weak channlers in link! Awesome!

 

 

 

Just because you are stronger, more skillfull in the Power (Demandred)

 

LOLOL..Everytime you don't know what toy say, you invent hypothetical situation! Why didn't people then right and left ambush LTT and kill him? I am pretty sure Demandred could have caught Rand way too many time in open combat or even ambushed him. Since we are talking "hypothetical"... In reality he avoids fight because HE SUCKS at fighting. He claimed in tWH that a general and not a soldier and performed weakly against 1 Ashaman and 2 Aes sedai in link, none of them particularly strong in power.

 

 

 

You are becoming a bit hysterical.

 

Mat btw has a similar saying and I assume you think he also sucks at fighting?

 

Demandred being "almost" LTT...I suppose now you think LTT sucks as well?

 

SHOW ME A SINGLE QUOTE THAT SAYS THAT DEMANDRED WAS ALMOST LTT IN FIGHTING? He was almost LTT in skill and achievement and CLOSE IN POWER but not in fighting. Aginor was almost LTT in strength and yet Dashiva was nothing more than a coward. Ishy was LTT's match in power and yet he lost, twice. You are so hungover the idea of raw power that you again and again ignoring the actual fights and keep harping about what someone said and what could have been, NONE OF WHICH CAN BE PROVEN.

 

 

I have no desire to waste more time with you having a never ending dicussion. I have proven why you are wrong, but providing evidence from the books.

 

Have a good day.

 

 

Ahh..Finn ally he couldn't just make up stuff anymore!!!Victory..I am sure you will be back with more inventive stories..

[WhiskyJack]

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

 

You are just being childish, I have already shown why you are incorrect.

 

If you want further confirmation, you can ask Brandon about men vs. women in the Power.

 

 

Shown what? Please do tell. Are you telling me that Rand was channeling more power than Lanfear? Have you proven that? Is that what you have shown and want me to ask Brandon? Why do I care about random question. I am asking you the specific. WAS RAND CHANNELING LESS OR MORE POWER THAN LANFEAR DURING THE FIGHT? Not that hard to answer..

 

And since you keep repeating Rahvin, he was LYING. Even RJ has confimed that you cannot take forsaken for what they say. I posted 2 links from 13 depository which proves that Rahvin's comment was real as Ishmael claiming that he and LTT had fought countless and Dragon has always lost..blah blah blah...

 

 

Rahvin > Lanfear Sammael > Lanfear. Rahvin would never include Sammael in his comment if he was boasting. Q.E.D

 

Does the 13 depository have comments from the authors regarding this scenario?

 

Men are MUCH STRONGER in the Power than women.

 

Was Rand channeling less or more power than Lanfear? That is difficult to say, given Rand's superior strength + inferior angreal vs. Lanfear's inferior strength + superior angreal. It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight. There are too many variables to have a definite answer.

 

See Alivia vs. Cyndane on the impact of skill level.

 

Read the link..Jesus man, you are really are unbeleiable.

 

I mean this is just funny:

It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight

 

I mean really, you will just invent ANYTHING to support your point. RJ actually had a scale and he put 21 level for women(Lanfear) and 24 for men (LTT/ISHY). So strongest man is 3 levels above strongest women. Not that much gap really. Now Rand was probably at 22 at the time and Lanfear 21. So do explain to me how he could have held "more power". If he didn't and LTT could have beaten Lanfear by skill (using less power), how exactly that proves you right?

 

You are assuming the levels are linear in scale: 21/24 = 88%. Then men would NOT BE much stronger than women, and the difference WOULD NOT BE similar to arm strength. The difference would essentailly be inconsquential.

 

With almost no difference in men and women, there would not be any need for 13 linked AS, 6 linked to hold a man.

 

Let me once again spell it out:

If the strongest man is equally skilled as the strongest woman, in a one-on-one face-to-face battle, the man would win, given no balefire is used. Balefire = great equalizer.

 

Actual quote from RJ:

 

Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels. Remember to integrate this with what I've said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.

 

So actually yes, you just add 3/4 level on TOP of women..Precisely what he meant..Example of hand was just an example. Otherwise women would be so weak that not one women could ever join the rank of "Chosen". It will be 100% men. Women on average are weaker than men but some women are very very strong.

 

13 link was INVENTED to insure that weakest possible female channelers could tame strongest possible male channeler. Also Lanfear strength (or even Graendel strength) was very very rare. That's what made them special! Women simply never reached those levels. LTT has said in one book that 3 forsaken women could have easily shielded him. 3, NOT 13. Never mind, you are good at ignoring stuff like that. Nynaever is stonger than ANY male channeler in 3rd age except Rand/Taim/Logain. Unless you are claiming that she can beat all these men in arm wrestling...

 

For bold part, good dealing with hypothetical! Unfortunately, those kind of men are very rare and you just don't become skillful because you are strong in OP.

[MasterAblar]

I don't see how Rand could not have been channeling more power than Lanfear at the docks. If he was channeling less, then he would have less strength and less dexteriousity, and therefore RJ's comment that Rand could have won had he given LTT control (which would not have given him greater strength) would make no sense. Therefore Rand must have been stronger than Lanfear at the docks.

 

And yet we know that Rand was nowhere near his full potential at that time. In fact less than a full book ago, he was exactly as strong as the weakest of the male forsaken. While it's difficult to judge the strength of the male forsaken, considering Rand fought Rahvin right after he fought Lanfear, it seems quite possible that Rand was around Rahvin's strength when he fought Lanfear at the docks. Which means that Rahvins thought about being able to overwhelm Lanfear face to face (which sounds like it has more to do with strength than dexteriousity) is not necessarily false.

 

Rahvin then also mentions that Lanfear and Greandel would link if he or Sammael tried anything. If's he's lying than he's making Sammael look good here as well, not just himself. Why mention Sammael at all if he's just trying to confort himself?

 

I'd also point out that while the strongest man and woman have the same overall value, they aren't necessarily equal in everything. And that men are typically better at some things with the power than women and vice versa. And finally if strength and dexteriousity gave exactly the same thing, then there would be no point in differentiating them, so I'm thinking strength is better for some things and dexteriousity for others.

[MasterAblar]

 

 

And that defeats your point because Rand probably was channeling LESS power than Lanfear. No magic saidin back then..no DRAGON LORD either..

 

You are just being childish, I have already shown why you are incorrect.

 

If you want further confirmation, you can ask Brandon about men vs. women in the Power.

 

 

Shown what? Please do tell. Are you telling me that Rand was channeling more power than Lanfear? Have you proven that? Is that what you have shown and want me to ask Brandon? Why do I care about random question. I am asking you the specific. WAS RAND CHANNELING LESS OR MORE POWER THAN LANFEAR DURING THE FIGHT? Not that hard to answer..

 

And since you keep repeating Rahvin, he was LYING. Even RJ has confimed that you cannot take forsaken for what they say. I posted 2 links from 13 depository which proves that Rahvin's comment was real as Ishmael claiming that he and LTT had fought countless and Dragon has always lost..blah blah blah...

 

 

Rahvin > Lanfear Sammael > Lanfear. Rahvin would never include Sammael in his comment if he was boasting. Q.E.D

 

Does the 13 depository have comments from the authors regarding this scenario?

 

Men are MUCH STRONGER in the Power than women.

 

Was Rand channeling less or more power than Lanfear? That is difficult to say, given Rand's superior strength + inferior angreal vs. Lanfear's inferior strength + superior angreal. It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight. There are too many variables to have a definite answer.

 

See Alivia vs. Cyndane on the impact of skill level.

 

Read the link..Jesus man, you are really are unbeleiable.

 

I mean this is just funny:

It also depends on when Lanfear started using the angreal. Given that LTT was very likely the most skillfull channeler, then having him 'take over', Rand could have won the fight

 

I mean really, you will just invent ANYTHING to support your point. RJ actually had a scale and he put 21 level for women(Lanfear) and 24 for men (LTT/ISHY). So strongest man is 3 levels above strongest women. Not that much gap really. Now Rand was probably at 22 at the time and Lanfear 21. So do explain to me how he could have held "more power". If he didn't and LTT could have beaten Lanfear by skill (using less power), how exactly that proves you right?

 

You are assuming the levels are linear in scale: 21/24 = 88%. Then men would NOT BE much stronger than women, and the difference WOULD NOT BE similar to arm strength. The difference would essentailly be inconsquential.

 

With almost no difference in men and women, there would not be any need for 13 linked AS, 6 linked to hold a man.

 

Let me once again spell it out:

If the strongest man is equally skilled as the strongest woman, in a one-on-one face-to-face battle, the man would win, given no balefire is used. Balefire = great equalizer.

 

Actual quote from RJ:

 

Regarding the levels of male strength, while the weakest man and the weakest woman would be roughly equivalent, you might say that there are several levels of male strength on top of the female levels. Remember to integrate this with what I've said elsewhere about effectiveness, though.

 

So actually yes, you just add 3/4 level on TOP of women..Precisely what he meant..Example of hand was just an example. Otherwise women would be so weak that not one women could ever join the rank of "Chosen". It will be 100% men. Women on average are weaker than men but some women are very very strong.

 

13 link was INVENTED to insure that weakest possible female channelers could tame strongest possible male channeler. Also Lanfear strength (or even Graendel strength) was very very rare. That's what made them special! Women simply never reached those levels. LTT has said in one book that 3 forsaken women could have easily shielded him. 3, NOT 13. Never mind, you are good at ignoring stuff like that. Nynaever is stonger than ANY male channeler in 3rd age except Rand/Taim/Logain. Unless you are claiming that she can beat all these men in arm wrestling...

 

For bold part, good dealing with hypothetical! Unfortunately, those kind of men are very rare and you just don't become skillful because you are strong in OP.

 

We don't actually how strong all the ashaman are so I wouldn't necessarily say that only Rand, Taim, and Logain are stronger than Nyneave.