location of the last battle

[sports25]

Any ideas where along the borderlands the last battle will occur? I have seen a general consensus for tarwin's gap. I do not remember the last book well enough but is that where Lan is headed during his journey across the borderlands?

[Luckers]

I doubt there will be only one battle. There are too many forces involed... Rand has a little over 2.3 million soldiers and 13,000 channelers, and we know the shadow has much higher number of soldiers and at worst around 3,500 channelers and at best around 12,000.

 

My guess is there will be two, maybe three incursions each with armies numbering at least 1 million, maybe as high as 2. One will come out of the Shadow's Lance, and be met by the forces with Rhuarc. One will come out of Tarwin's Gap, and be met by the forces with Lan, who will be pushed back. He will harass and hurt them all the way south until they reach Tar Valon. The assault on Tar Valon will come during the middle of a week long conflict with the Seanchan, though the Seanchan won't help, and the Aes Sedai will be on the verge of losing. Then Tuon will rock up with Rand, and the the Trolloc assualt broken. They will retreat briefly.

 

At the same time an attack will be launched out of the ways--i suspect into Seanchan held lands, likely Amadecia, and maybe a few other places--if for no other reason then to prove Rand right about the danger of the ways, and because of all those 'i would like to see these trollocs of yours' comments. I think it will just make an interesting chapter.

 

There might also be another incursion out of the Blight that will rampage unchecked at first. I am undecided on this.

 

Anyway following the battle of Tar Valon the Light will actually be unified for the first time. A counter-attack will be launched against all the trolloc armies, but also one into the north, at Shayoul Ghoul. The final battle itself will be split between the three locations--Rhuarc, the ones that attack Tar Valon, and Shayoul Ghoul. Victory will not be complete--the armies will be fighting superior numbers, and total destruction of your enemies does not work that way. In the end though they will be routed and broken. I dont see the shadowspawn being wiped out before the end of the books though.

[TheDiceAgain...]

Wow, that's alot to draw out of what I've read. And it sounds an awful lot like a pyrrhic victory to me....

[Gentled Ben]

Not if the DO's prison is made whole again. Then, it's only a costly victory.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yeah, well the prophecy of Rhuidean said "a remnant of a remnant shall he save".

 

A pyrrhic victory is a pretty good description.

[Luckers]

Indications have always been that such a victory is exactly what is going to take place. The prophecies all suggest that the horror of rands victory will only be outwayed by the horror of his defeat.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Aren't all victories Pyrrhic? Isn't that what history keeps trying to teach us? And, what we keep refusing to learn?

 

The problem, of course, is that the only thing worse than the unintended consequences of winning is the unintended consequences of losing.

[Guest Majsju]

I think it will essentially be three battles.

 

First Lan, and the army he is gathering, who will hold off a massive amount of trollocs at Tarwin's gap.

 

Then a huge onslught in the south, the shadows forces striking at the heart of the land. Both tar Valon and Andor are likely to be scenes for huge battles in this.

 

And finally Rand's strike at Shayol Ghul. I strongly doubt he will take an army with him. Only a relatively small strikeforce. Of course with some obvious people, like Mat and Perrin who must be there. And a good bunch of channelers. But at the very most 10000 soldiers, possibly most of those maidens.

 

And I expect the Light to be at the best holding a costly draw in the two more normal battles, with Rand's victory over the DO being what turns the tide.

[Wolfwalker]

And finally Rand's strike at Shayol Ghul. I strongly doubt he will take an army with him. Only a relatively small strikeforce. Of course with some obvious people' date=' like Mat and Perrin who must be there. And a good bunch of channelers. But at the very most 10000 soldiers, possibly most of those maidens.

 

And I expect the Light to be at the best holding a costly draw in the two more normal battles, with Rand's victory over the DO being what turns the tide.[/quote']

 

I agree with this. Rand's main battle is going to be with the DO (and Forsaken) at Shayol Ghul, with the others dealing with shadowspawn elsewhere.

That has been his goal all along, with the Prophesies. Hence the need to unite all the lands behind him- they need to be united to hold off the hordes of shadowspawn that the DO will send against them while Rand fights at Shayol Ghul.

[feprehn2]

Perhaps the Key ellement of the LB takes place in tar. Remember Rands battle against Ravin in tFoH. Rand wound having to battle LTT to keep his physical image.

 

The DO may try the same tactic as Rahvin did and LTT come out on top.

 

Any thoughts on this? :?:

[Bob T Dwarf]

We have multiple methods by which troops can fairly quickly be moved to any location.

 

Traveling, per se, is out for the Dark's constructed troops ( Trollocs etc. )

 

Skimming may be as well, but I'm not sure.

 

Rand is already trying to seal up all the Waygates in order to deny them to the enemy.

 

That still leaves Portal Stones. Rand may need to either destroy those or garrison all of their locations ( and who knows how many troops that would require? )

 

Then, there's T'a'R. Step in here and step back out wherever you need to be. That may be where Hopper and the other "dead" wolves come into it.

 

Finally, there's the Myrddraal ability to enter a shadow here, and exit a different shadow someplace else. So far as we know, they can't take any Trollocs with them, but that still leaves Myrddraal Death Squads and the ability cause a lot of chaos behind the lines.

 

Anybody know of any others?

 

My point here is that a lot of this battle may not involve lines. Both sides have the ability to move troops great distances in very little time and to strike anywhere. Rand's best defense may be a concerted offense. If he can strike directly at Shayol Ghul, and keep the fighting centered there, the Dark may be kept too busy to launch any rear-area attacks of their own.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Shadowspawn cannot pass through Gateways. That applies not only to Traveling, but to Skimming, and, based on the description, entering Tel'aran'rhiod physcially. Certainly the Ways have been the most used method by the Shadow. Portal Stones are not a really viable option. Even with an angreal, Rand nearly killed himself taking a relatively small group from Tear to Rhuidean. None of the Forsaken has even that much, reportedly ("Why not?" is a good question, since Mesaana has had long-term acces to the Tower .... ). And most of the Ways are guarded. That is my main objection to wide-spread action.

 

It is my thought that most of the action will be concentrated along the Blight. We know at least part of it has to take place directly at Shayol Ghul.

[Bob T Dwarf]

But, Lanfear entered and left the Portal world entirely on her own. The Forsaken still possess some knowledge that the good guys don't.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Moving one person is not that tough. Moving an army? Lanfear was all by her lonesome.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Not an army all at once.

 

Squad and platoon sized elements is more what I'm thinking they'd do. Suicide troops. Sent to do as much damage as possible and tie up as much of Rand's strength as possible in policing rear areas.

 

Jordan dreamed up all these ways to get around for some reason. It'd be pretty weird if he didn't use at least some of them for the big battle.

[RobertAlexWillis]

You know ... given how you object to the other ways he writes things, it doesn't seem like you and RJ think the same way.

 

Prepare to be dissapointed when Portal Stones play little or no tactical role in the Last Battle.