[Basic Mafia] Fiddleton - Game Over

[csarmi]

Yea but why doesn't he claim then?

I mean he sure got the Maffia's attention so what's the point.

[Myndrunner]

i haven't said that a lynch on you would prove anyone anything. I said it provides information, that is different from absolute fact. And then it would silly to assume that if one person is something it automatically makes someone a certain alignment. for all I know this could be a gambit between the two, but because I actually don't think GM is scum, then I don't think that is true. whatever you maybe, the info will not be just on the two of you , but on who voted who and who did what during the day, and you know that as well as I do!

You say that you don't think that GMaster is scum because it's just a feeling while there are blatant facts that you continue to ignore. We could lynch GMaster and get the same information as lynching myself, except we keep a much more experienced and sound player in the game. Nothing GMaster has posted has been relevant or coherent. The fact that you also will not site GMaster's reasons for believing me scum not only suggests you are defending him blindly, but that you have really lost your touch.

[Niniel]

Ok. Actually I think both Mynd and GMaster seems scummy. I have to agree with previos posts that lynching Mynd will give us more information. Vote Mynd. Let´s see what the nonvoters have to say now.

 

I have little time right now becouse my doughter is sick but I hope I can come back later in the evening when she goes to sleep.

[Myndrunner]

TinaHel, what would you recommend as the next course of action when I flip innocent?

[Phelix]

Mynd,

 

I've collected a couple of quotes from you from during this game where you said a lynch on one person would provide information on a second, or even a third, player. It was good enough when you were attacking people to say they would be guilty by association, but now that we're looking at people who are associating with you it doesn't make sense?

 

Sick or not, I see two mafia players working together! Cscummi and Phelix both went after Mav rather quick, and the reasons has to do with his list. TinaHell also posts a list, but its one that favors the two of them and questions Mav for his behavior and me for essentially going after Phelix. Also, TinaHell's post seems desperately innocent, as if she is trying hard to support yet distance herself from Cscummi and Phelix.

 

I think we can learn a lot from a Phelix lynch. Watch how reluctant Csarmi and TinaHel are to place their vote on him!

 

 

Whatever Mynd...I haven't put Gm up to anything because I'm not mafia...simple. If that was the case why didn't i jump on the vote, people seemed keen too. I'm waiting to see what happens, because may 'usual aggressive style' as you out it lost me the last two games, so lets just say I'm a bit reluctant to go diving in too quickly. Though I certianly haven't been quiet. As for not playing the usual game, you are very quiet today, so your play has changed, and yet you say you're town..

 

Personally if you are so sure that GM is lying (though he hasn't said he is finder) then why aren't you going after him...sounds off to me!

 

The way to solve it would be to go for you or GM.

I'm going after you instead of GMaster because you are a veteran and more of a threat. To kill a dragon, you lop off its head not its fingernail. You've been town in the numerous past games you've been in, but now you've suddenly changed your style, what gives? It's like voting Democrat for ages then suddenly voting for Sara Palin. Such a radical shift in gameplay could only mean you are masking a guilty conscience.

 

GMaster's posts are ridiculous and have got to be embarrassing to his mafia team, so it is only natural that you swoop in to try and make sense of his ramblings. This quasi-failed attempt at pressuring the real finder to reveal is pathetic and I caution the real finder to not fall for GMaster's "unofficial yet official" finder hint.

 

A lynch on Talya would not only verify that I am right about GMaster, but we will be able to knock off two scum by Day 3.

 

 

What about lynching GMaster instead?

 

If it were just the two of you going back and forth, yes... I would be OK with voting GMaster to get info on you... but if we lynch you, and you turn up Scum it will give info on Csarmi as well. Lynching you gives us information about two players either way you flip, while lynching GMaster only gives us information about you and him.

Im sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. How does me flipping scum make Csarmi scum as well for agreeing with me? I could argue the same for Gmaster & Talya, or even you for that matter. If we lynch GMaster and he flips innocent, it confirms you as innocent because you agreed with him. How about that? Wouldn't you want to be confirmed innocent?

 

Exactly! It makes no sense.

 

 

Mynd, I think you should read GM's post a little more carfully. It's a feeling I got, and I can't believe you didn't see it. Which makes me think even more you could be scum!

 

So, according to the logic of GMaster, Talya, and Phelix.....when I flip innocent, it will prove that GMaster, Talya, and Phelix are scum while proving that CSarmi is innocent. Correct?

 

See, it's really pinging me that early on in the game you were all for using lynches to prove another player's alignment, but now you've decided that the technique makes no sense. What caused that change? Is there something different, other than the people involved and which roles they're in?

[Mav]

 

Secondly, my original pinging on Mav seems to be stalled. Since that vote all Mav has done really is argue that I must be scum because I think he is scum which really isn't much to go on. I'm going to keep watching.

 

 

 

Oh please, you can hardly shrug it off with that. Tell us what was so suspicious about that list I posted.

 

Lynch Phelix for some extra motivation.

[Mav]

Lynch Phelix

 

Added a nicer color

[csarmi]

TinaHel, what would you recommend as the next course of action when I flip innocent?

 

If you flip innocent, we will have to lynch GMaster.

I don't know what his game is, but after he claimed for certain that you were scum (where does he get it from), that seems to be the only course of action that makes sense.

[csarmi]

Lynch Phelix

 

Added a nicer color

 

Seriously?

You suggest lynching the 3rd?

[csarmi]

Unofficial Vote Count

 

Mynd (5) - GMaster, Talya, Tiinker, Phelix, Tina Hel

GMaster (3) - Mynd, csarmi, Locke

Phelix (1) - Mav

 

6 to lynch

 

Not voting: Deadly v2.0

 

Deadly, what are your thoughts?

[Mav]

Oh and all this talk about if you flip innocent we will just have to lynch that guy.

 

We have 10 playes left with 3 or 4 of them being scum I suppose.

 

If we lynch an innocent today then we will have 9 player left, add 1 NK and then we'll get 8 players. Already a possibility of standing on equal grounds with the mafia there...

 

Then add 1 more lynch at the end of the day based on the "discussions" that we have here and the mafia will win...

 

 

 

So, I recon Csarmi, Phelix and Tina are mighty suspicious. Not the first time we hear those 3 names together imo.

 

 

Do you remember my "list" that Phelix now tries to shrug off like it has never happend? How fast csarmi has put down his vote after me and shrugged it off with "I'm sick, cba to read back I will just follow a random townie" And ofcourse the list of Tina at the start.

[Mav]

Lynch Phelix

 

Added a nicer color

 

Seriously?

You suggest lynching the 3rd?

 

 

I believe that I have the option to vote for who I wish?

Besides I'm not convinced enough to follow through with the lynch, I also hope a few people will unvote to prevent a hammer.

[Myndrunner]

Phelix, first of all, what I was doing was testing everyone on their reactions. As some have pointed out, I like to get reactions on players on Day 1 to see how they react. If you notice, every post I backed it up with reasons for voting, not simply "XXXXXX is scum, that is all!!!!"

 

Secondly, you are ignoring the fact that GMaster has recanted being the finder. At this point, if he was telling the truth, he will be the likely mafia target because he hinted at being the finder in the first place. He might as well claim being the finder at this point, but he recanted which should be a HUGE scum tell.

 

I am for using lynches to gain information, but I fail to see what information lynching me would gain us. Essentially, the argument is "If Mynd flips innocent, then we know he's innocent. If he flips scum, then we know he was scum." How can that information be used to eliminate the mafia from the game?

[Mav]

Phelix, first of all, what I was doing was testing everyone on their reactions. As some have pointed out, I like to get reactions on players on Day 1 to see how they react. If you notice, every post I backed it up with reasons for voting, not simply "XXXXXX is scum, that is all!!!!"

 

Secondly, you are ignoring the fact that GMaster has recanted being the finder. At this point, if he was telling the truth, he will be the likely mafia target because he hinted at being the finder in the first place. He might as well claim being the finder at this point, but he recanted which should be a HUGE scum tell.

 

I am for using lynches to gain information, but I fail to see what information lynching me would gain us. Essentially, the argument is "If Mynd flips innocent, then we know he's innocent. If he flips scum, then we know he was scum." How can that information be used to eliminate the mafia from the game?

 

 

I like the bolded part, mighty suspicious of phelix if you ask me, I stand even stronger.

 

By the logic that is being used, I'd say if Phelix flips scum then we know who to lynch the following day, right?

[csarmi]

As it is a standard game, it is 99% sure that there are 3 maffia players.

[Phelix]

Secondly, my original pinging on Mav seems to be stalled. Since that vote all Mav has done really is argue that I must be scum because I think he is scum which really isn't much to go on. I'm going to keep watching.

 

 

 

Oh please, you can hardly shrug it off with that. Tell us what was so suspicious about that list I posted.

 

Lynch Phelix for some extra motivation.

 

I told you when I voted what I thought was so suspicious. Is there some reason why you won't accept the reasoning I've given? It was Day One, and I thought your list was meant to stop townies from acting on suspicious behavior.

 

Really, the thing that is leaping out as the most scummy to me is Mav's list of types of players. That list really does cover everyone... now, it could just be a silly way of saying it's really hard to spot scum... or it could be a way of discouraging Townies from acting on suspicious behavior.

 

For now, I'm going to vote Mav.

 

In your reply to my reasoning you launch into this odd conspiracy theory about you undermining my definition of scum or me trying to initiate a bandwagon on inactive players. You never replied to my question about the scum definition, and your only reply to the bit about inactives was claiming that you weren't just aiming that at me... except it was in a reply directly to me and said "Hence you can't initiate a lynch on the inactive players with a bandwagon following and ofcourse not seeming suspicious while at it?"

 

Since I fingered you as scummy most of what you've done has been attacking me as scummy. There really isn't that much to work with, while other players are acting scummier... so I've moved on to casing other players.

 

Yes, you pinged me, and re-reading your arguments you still do... but when I wrote that last post, you hadn't done anything additional.

[Mav]

As it is a standard game, it is 99% sure that there are 3 maffia players.

 

 

This doesn't change the fact that tomorrow it might end if the scum can get of the correct lynch and convince the majority of lynching a second innocent tomorrow.

[Mav]

Secondly, my original pinging on Mav seems to be stalled. Since that vote all Mav has done really is argue that I must be scum because I think he is scum which really isn't much to go on. I'm going to keep watching.

 

 

 

Oh please, you can hardly shrug it off with that. Tell us what was so suspicious about that list I posted.

 

Lynch Phelix for some extra motivation.

 

I told you when I voted what I thought was so suspicious. Is there some reason why you won't accept the reasoning I've given? It was Day One, and I thought your list was meant to stop townies from acting on suspicious behavior.

 

Really, the thing that is leaping out as the most scummy to me is Mav's list of types of players. That list really does cover everyone... now, it could just be a silly way of saying it's really hard to spot scum... or it could be a way of discouraging Townies from acting on suspicious behavior.

 

For now, I'm going to vote Mav.

 

In your reply to my reasoning you launch into this odd conspiracy theory about you undermining my definition of scum or me trying to initiate a bandwagon on inactive players. You never replied to my question about the scum definition, and your only reply to the bit about inactives was claiming that you weren't just aiming that at me... except it was in a reply directly to me and said "Hence you can't initiate a lynch on the inactive players with a bandwagon following and ofcourse not seeming suspicious while at it?"

 

Since I fingered you as scummy most of what you've done has been attacking me as scummy. There really isn't that much to work with, while other players are acting scummier... so I've moved on to casing other players.

 

Yes, you pinged me, and re-reading your arguments you still do... but when I wrote that last post, you hadn't done anything additional.

 

 

Why would it be odd to see a pattern there? While I did post a rather wide defenition there, it is usually accurate and shouldn't inflict so mutch "scummy vibes" to base a lynch on.

What still bothers me is the time difference that you two voted, I can't forget about that.

 

And as I said, "if mynd or GM flips innocent we just have to lynch xxx", I don't co-op with that logic and I find it a statement of scum :/.

[Phelix]

Phelix, first of all, what I was doing was testing everyone on their reactions. As some have pointed out, I like to get reactions on players on Day 1 to see how they react. If you notice, every post I backed it up with reasons for voting, not simply "XXXXXX is scum, that is all!!!!"

 

Secondly, you are ignoring the fact that GMaster has recanted being the finder. At this point, if he was telling the truth, he will be the likely mafia target because he hinted at being the finder in the first place. He might as well claim being the finder at this point, but he recanted which should be a HUGE scum tell.

 

I am for using lynches to gain information, but I fail to see what information lynching me would gain us. Essentially, the argument is "If Mynd flips innocent, then we know he's innocent. If he flips scum, then we know he was scum." How can that information be used to eliminate the mafia from the game?

 

1. I can see how that could be a useful technique, and you are right that GMaster doesn't provide any support other than his word... but your actions have been so chaotic that you've almost built the case for it yourself. You are acting odd, and that makes you suspicious, add in the back and forth between you two, and voting for one of you makes sense. When you add in the Csarmi connection, voting for you makes the most sense.

 

2. I'm not ignoring it, but I think it's set a neat trap for him. If you flip town we have an obvious lynch for the next Day. He has left himself in a spot without room to maneuver. If he's right about you, he could have been lying when he recanted... this is only my third game, but I've seen a player come out claiming one role only to recant and claim a second role... huge scum tell, right? Except not... that player ended up being Town trying to play a very bold game. If he's wrong about you, he'll get lynched tomorrow.

 

3. If you flip scum, it implicates Csarmi because of how closely the two of you have been playing. Plus, if you flip scum, we'll be able to look at how people chose to vote for you, or not. If you flip innocent, it tells us that GMaster was lying. It's pretty obvious that lynching you will give us information, and I'm not sure why you keep saying it doesn't/won't.

 

 

Phelix, first of all, what I was doing was testing everyone on their reactions. As some have pointed out, I like to get reactions on players on Day 1 to see how they react. If you notice, every post I backed it up with reasons for voting, not simply "XXXXXX is scum, that is all!!!!"

 

Secondly, you are ignoring the fact that GMaster has recanted being the finder. At this point, if he was telling the truth, he will be the likely mafia target because he hinted at being the finder in the first place. He might as well claim being the finder at this point, but he recanted which should be a HUGE scum tell.

 

I am for using lynches to gain information, but I fail to see what information lynching me would gain us. Essentially, the argument is "If Mynd flips innocent, then we know he's innocent. If he flips scum, then we know he was scum." How can that information be used to eliminate the mafia from the game?

 

 

I like the bolded part, mighty suspicious of phelix if you ask me, I stand even stronger.

 

By the logic that is being used, I'd say if Phelix flips scum then we know who to lynch the following day, right?

 

Why does something Mynd says make you suspicious of me? That's strange logic to say the least.

[Mav]

 

 

Why does something Mynd says make you suspicious of me? That's strange logic to say the least.

 

 

 

I was rather pointing out your strange logic.

[Phelix]

Secondly, my original pinging on Mav seems to be stalled. Since that vote all Mav has done really is argue that I must be scum because I think he is scum which really isn't much to go on. I'm going to keep watching.

 

 

 

Oh please, you can hardly shrug it off with that. Tell us what was so suspicious about that list I posted.

 

Lynch Phelix for some extra motivation.

 

I told you when I voted what I thought was so suspicious. Is there some reason why you won't accept the reasoning I've given? It was Day One, and I thought your list was meant to stop townies from acting on suspicious behavior.

 

Really, the thing that is leaping out as the most scummy to me is Mav's list of types of players. That list really does cover everyone... now, it could just be a silly way of saying it's really hard to spot scum... or it could be a way of discouraging Townies from acting on suspicious behavior.

 

For now, I'm going to vote Mav.

 

In your reply to my reasoning you launch into this odd conspiracy theory about you undermining my definition of scum or me trying to initiate a bandwagon on inactive players. You never replied to my question about the scum definition, and your only reply to the bit about inactives was claiming that you weren't just aiming that at me... except it was in a reply directly to me and said "Hence you can't initiate a lynch on the inactive players with a bandwagon following and ofcourse not seeming suspicious while at it?"

 

Since I fingered you as scummy most of what you've done has been attacking me as scummy. There really isn't that much to work with, while other players are acting scummier... so I've moved on to casing other players.

 

Yes, you pinged me, and re-reading your arguments you still do... but when I wrote that last post, you hadn't done anything additional.

 

 

Why would it be odd to see a pattern there? While I did post a rather wide defenition there, it is usually accurate and shouldn't inflict so mutch "scummy vibes" to base a lynch on.

What still bothers me is the time difference that you two voted, I can't forget about that.

 

And as I said, "if mynd or GM flips innocent we just have to lynch xxx", I don't co-op with that logic and I find it a statement of scum :/.

 

Because patterns require more than one related event. You went from "Phelix thinks I'm scummy" to "it must be the timing of when I posted the thing he thinks is scummy, because obviously the reasons he gave are insufficient, so really it must be this other reason I think is true despite a lack of evidence."

 

I did not base a lynch on your post, I voted on it. I didn't go around trying to build a bandwagon on you, and you'll notice when Csarmi jumped on my vote, I called him scummy for it too. I asked the rest of the group if they wanted to go Csarmi because of that, but no one really took it up, instead they moved to a vote on Deadly, all while Csarmi and Mynd began their back and forth (which ended with Mynd declaring that if he got nightkilled not to suspect Csarmi).

 

It seems your argument for me boils down to "I didn't do anything scummy, he called me scummy, so he must be scummy." It's flawless, really.

[Phelix]

Why does something Mynd says make you suspicious of me? That's strange logic to say the least.

 

 

 

I was rather pointing out your strange logic.

 

It's not that strange to say that Csarmi and Mynd have been collaborating in the thread. Is it? Nor is it strange to say that Csarmi has acted scummy (jumping onto my vote for you, then quickly bolting away from it), or to say that Mynd's game play has been aggressive and erratic, is it?

 

The two of them have been playing together, and have individually acted in scummy ways while supporting each other as Town. If one of them flips as Scum it would implicate the other.

 

I don't see what is strange about that at all.

[Tiinker]

Because by that logic, anyone who defends someone else is on the same team as that person. It's a bit ridiculous in my opinion..

[Talya]

I am for using lynches to gain information, but I fail to see what information lynching me would gain us. Essentially, the argument is " then we know he was scum." How can that information be used to eliminate the mafia from the game?If Mynd flips innocent, then we know he's innocent. If he flips scum,

 

Really? you have had people accuse you, side with you vote you not vote you, more than GM, or course there will be more info. You have a unique ability for twisting what people say when it suits you. So according to you we should all go after GM, because if he turns up Finder we get more info? We would lose our Finder not the wisest of moves. Of course he may not be, but if you read his posts he is more likely town than not. I will go with my gut here!

 

Mav and Phelix, if you go about each say thinking that info doesn't change then you will not get very far. I can't say I understand Phelix's fixation with that phase. Yep, it could mean anyone bit of a throw away list, but things have moved on from there and more important things have happened.

 

I also don't get your 'Pointing out strange behaviour' though Mav, care to expand. because in that post, Mynd wrote what he wanted to write about it all, he hasn't really taken the time to read the posts. Just for clarification.

 

 

 

[Talya]

Because by that logic, anyone who defends someone else is on the same team as that person. It's a bit ridiculous in my opinion..

 

 

It does create implications...as Phelix says, but it DOESN'T Create Fact. The two are very different. You would read things into it and make your own mind up. For CS could be scum but Mynd Town and CS was trying to align with him...you would use it as a puzzle to what else is going on, and people will see different things. It's not an exact science, but all try to get information somehow... not really at you Tiinks, more everyone, becuase I don't think you think so narrowly...I have done that recently...*eyes Tiinks*