TSR vision.

[Feral]

At some point in the book Min has a viewing about Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck. Min states she saw this vision flickering and changing with a vision of Gawyn kneeling to Egwene, and that she'd never experienced this before. Does this mean she was seeing two possible paths Egwene's future could take? Was it refering to Gawyn's decision to return to the WT just in time to save Egwene from the Bloodknives? On one hand it seems to fit, but seeing Gawyn actually break Egwene's neck seems very specific to simply be a metaphor for her dying without his aid.

 

Also (I know it's not related to ToM, but don't want to make a seperate thread for such a minor point) I was intrigued by an early chapter of TSR, I believe it's called "Decisions". It's unusual because we get several different PoVs all in one go. And when changing from one character's PoV to Rands we get the phrase "And Rand..." as if the narrator is talking more directly and personally to the reader. I was just wondering if there are any other points in the series where a similar style is used?

[randsc]

I don't recall the passage you're discussing, but if Gawyn were to break Egwene's neck, then be executed for murder, that would be what we Americans call a, "win-win scenario."

[herid]

At some point in the book Min has a viewing about Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck. Min states she saw this vision flickering and changing with a vision of Gawyn kneeling to Egwene, and that she'd never experienced this before. Does this mean she was seeing two possible paths Egwene's future could take? Was it refering to Gawyn's decision to return to the WT just in time to save Egwene from the Bloodknives? On one hand it seems to fit, but seeing Gawyn actually break Egwene's neck seems very specific to simply be a metaphor for her dying without his aid.

 

 

This viewing has bothered me too. Here is the full quote.

 

She glanced over her shoulder toward the Tower, the thick white shaft dominating the city, whole and straight, yet broken as surely as if it lay in ruins. For a moment she let herself think of the images she had glimpsed, just for a moment, flickering around Gawyn’s head. Gawyn kneeling at Egwene’s feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene’s neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future.

 

-SH Ch47

 

I always interpreted it as Gawyn making a dramatic choice at some point and his choice was so uncertain that even Min with her abilities could not predict the outcome. It seems pretty clear that the choice is by now made. However, it was hardly dramatic. After all, Gawyn never came close to even considering anything as peculiar (or desirable if you are of the same mind as Randsc) as breaking Egwene's neck.

 

There is another one which bothers me too.

 

Egwene has a dream in CoS, Ch 10

 

Straps at waist and shoulder held her tightly to the block, and the headsman’s axe descended, but she knew that somewhere someone was running, and if they ran fast enough, the axe would stop. If not . . . In that corner of her mind, she felt a chill.

 

I would seem that this refers to her being almost killed by the bloodknives and Gawyn running hard to save her. However, the dream speaks of a headsman's axe which means an execution. Bloodknives are assassins. An execution and an assassination are pretty different things.

 

 

I don't recall the passage you're discussing, but if Gawyn were to break Egwene's neck, then be executed for murder, that would be what we Americans call a, "win-win scenario."

Lol, you really love her, don't you. I wonder what AMoL would be like if you had a chance to write it and not BS.

[Elan Tedronai]

Heh it safe to say that egwene won't make it beyond the first chapter

[A Trite Pun]

Lol...wouldn't it be funny if Demandred kills Egwene, then Gawyn kills Demandred? It would go with the theme of the forsaken being absolutely underwhelming and the theme of Gawyn's sword fighting ability becoming stupidly, ridiculously, unrealistically good...

Yep that would be amazing

[Ashandarei]

Lol...wouldn't it be funny if Demandred kills Egwene, then Gawyn kills Demandred? It would go with the theme of the forsaken being absolutely underwhelming and the theme of Gawyn's sword fighting ability becoming stupidly, ridiculously, unrealistically good...

Yep that would be amazing

 

Wow. That would be an epic FAIL on so many levels that I can't even begin to explain. I hope to god that doesn't happen even though I realize you're (mostly) joking...

[MattTaz]

Min had two 'ify' visions and they were about Egwene/Gawyn and Siuan/Gareth

They both had death experiences with Bloodknives.

Interesting as to why this is so. Why cant the Pattern decide what will happen?

[Terez]

At some point in the book Min has a viewing about Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck. Min states she saw this vision flickering and changing with a vision of Gawyn kneeling to Egwene, and that she'd never experienced this before. Does this mean she was seeing two possible paths Egwene's future could take? Was it refering to Gawyn's decision to return to the WT just in time to save Egwene from the Bloodknives? On one hand it seems to fit, but seeing Gawyn actually break Egwene's neck seems very specific to simply be a metaphor for her dying without his aid.

I agree, but it seems to me to have more to do with Egwene's decision to bond him than anything else. Imagine if, after all Gawyn went through to protect her while she was sleeping, she still refused to bond him? Of course, it ended up being the only way to save his life, but Min saw that either Egwene would bond him or that Gawyn would kill her. Perhaps it referred to Gawyn's decision to allow her to bond him, though it hadn't happened yet. In that case, it might go back very far, and it might simply mean that if they hadn't more or less agreed on the bonding back in LOC that Gawyn would have eventually killed her (probably due to his hatred for Rand).

 

One dream of Egwene's might yet be unfulfilled, though - she saw Gawyn at a fork in the road. Down one path, they marry; down the other, not. Down one path, Gawyn lives a long life; down the other, he dies a violent death. She doesn't know which ends correspond with each other, so no way to say if this one is done.

 

Also (I know it's not related to ToM, but don't want to make a separate thread for such a minor point) I was intrigued by an early chapter of TSR, I believe it's called "Decisions". It's unusual because we get several different PoVs all in one go. And when changing from one character's PoV to Rands we get the phrase "And Rand..." as if the narrator is talking more directly and personally to the reader. I was just wondering if there are any other points in the series where a similar style is used?

That's pretty much the only time RJ did anything like that in the series, with the exception of a few omni POVs that aren't really all that similar (usually the 'After' type epilogue-ish things). He was pretty experimental at the beginning of TSR. There's no prologue, but the first chapter serves as a prologue-type thing, and the wind continues through chapter two. And then of course in chapter 9 he goes through several POVs seamlessly before settling on Rand.

[herid]

At some point in the book Min has a viewing about Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck. Min states she saw this vision flickering and changing with a vision of Gawyn kneeling to Egwene, and that she'd never experienced this before. Does this mean she was seeing two possible paths Egwene's future could take? Was it refering to Gawyn's decision to return to the WT just in time to save Egwene from the Bloodknives? On one hand it seems to fit, but seeing Gawyn actually break Egwene's neck seems very specific to simply be a metaphor for her dying without his aid.

I agree, but it seems to me to have more to do with Egwene's decision to bond him than anything else. Imagine if, after all Gawyn went through to protect her while she was sleeping, she still refused to bond him? Of course, it ended up being the only way to save his life, but Min saw that either Egwene would bond him or that Gawyn would kill her. Perhaps it referred to Gawyn's decision to allow her to bond him, though it hadn't happened yet. In that case, it might go back very far, and it might simply mean that if they hadn't more or less agreed on the bonding back in LOC that Gawyn would have eventually killed her (probably due to his hatred for Rand).

 

One dream of Egwene's might yet be unfulfilled, though - she saw Gawyn at a fork in the road. Down one path, they marry; down the other, not. Down one path, Gawyn lives a long life; down the other, he dies a violent death. She doesn't know which ends correspond with each other, so no way to say if this one is done.

yes, this one is so vague it's really quite impossible to decide anything about. It's not even clear which fork is his marrying Egwene on. the same one that leads to long life? or the one that leads to violent death? it's not clear from the dream.

 

but what do you think about the dream with the headsman's axe that I mentioned above? has this been fulfilled?

[herid]

Lol...wouldn't it be funny if Demandred kills Egwene, then Gawyn kills Demandred? It would go with the theme of the forsaken being absolutely underwhelming and the theme of Gawyn's sword fighting ability becoming stupidly, ridiculously, unrealistically good...

Yep that would be amazing

Well, Egwene is definitely set to live a long life and become the longest serving Amyrlin in memory. But Gawyn killing Demandred is actually not such a crazy notion. He is obviously going to use his three ter'angreal rings and all at once too. This should poison him very quickly (unless he is healed) but together with his warder bond it should make him into a super lethal assassin. He should be able to kill just about any character in the book with exception of the DO. The only question is who he is going to go after. someone like Demandred is not out of the question if he does something bad to Egwene for example. However, my money is on it having something to do with the Seanchan. Egwene is heading for some trouble there. There is the impending attack of Seanchan on the White Tower and also various dreams of Egwene. It's hard to imagine Gawyn sitting by when this happens.

[KrisAnton]

One possibility is that this isn't a direct vision, but a metaphor. Had Gawyn rushed in and rescued Egwene before the Seanchan invasion, he would have undone all her work and the Tower would have been completely destroyed by the raid. It would have been the same as "breaking her neck" in the sense that everything she had worked for and all she had built for the past year was undone by his selfishness. Her expressed will was that she NOT be rescued, she would not have "bent" her will to allow rescue. Gawyn rescuing her would have forced her to "bend" her neck against her will, thus "breaking" it.

 

Sorry if this sounds convoluted, it made more sense in my head...