MIrror vs. Parallel Worlds

[kraefzke]

I was just wondering:

 

The mirror worlds (reachable through portal stones) are the worlds for all possible things that could have happened in another way. T'a'R is some kind of a constant, touching all these worlds. The other constant is the DO being imprisoned, 'cause if he were free in one world, he'd be free in all of them --> break the wheel --> there would be no mirror worlds whatsoever.

 

Then there are parallel worlds (Finnland, Ogier Homelands). They can't be reached by PS, but obviously via different means (ToG, ter'Angreal, BoT which is probably a t'A anyway).

 

So are these parallel worlds outside the pattern? Are they woven by the wheel in a different manner, or outside the wheels influence alltogether? What would happen to them if the DO succeeded?

 

Has this ever been clarified by RJ/BS? Because all I can seem to find on the topic is in the lines of "MWs are different from PWs", but nothing more.

[Ashandarei]

Disclaimer: This was delicate territory so I tried to check over the post to make sure there are no ToM spoilers visible, please let me know if you spot one because I could've missed it. Thanks!

 

I was just wondering:

 

The mirror worlds (reachable through portal stones) are the worlds for all possible things that could have happened in another way. T'a'R is some kind of a constant, touching all these worlds. The other constant is the DO being imprisoned, 'cause if he were free in one world, he'd be free in all of them --> break the wheel --> there would be no mirror worlds whatsoever.

 

Then there are parallel worlds (Finnland, Ogier Homelands). They can't be reached by PS, but obviously via different means (ToG, ter'Angreal, BoT which is probably a t'A anyway).

 

So are these parallel worlds outside the pattern? Are they woven by the wheel in a different manner, or outside the wheels influence alltogether? What would happen to them if the DO succeeded?

 

Has this ever been clarified by RJ/BS? Because all I can seem to find on the topic is in the lines of "MWs are different from PWs", but nothing more.

 

I've put all the MW/PW quotes by RJ/BS that I could find below but I think the key lies in the following one:

 

"Tamyrlin: The 'Finns reside in a Parallel World, is that correct?

Jordan: Yes.

Tamyrlin: Okay, so are Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds the same thing?

Jordan: No, they are different.

Tamyrlin: Okay, well then do Parallel Worlds have their own reflections?

Jordan: Possibly."

 

The various mentions in the books lead me to believe that Mirror Worlds(such as the one in TGS which Rand, Loial, Hurin, and Selene travel in) are alternate universes/alternate realities where the same people do different things or things turn out differently. IMHO, the Parallel Worlds are other planets in the main WoT universe that we read about. This is supported by the fact that Parallel Worlds can have their own reflections in Mirror Worlds. Now the weird part about this is that PW's can apparently have different physics laws(i.e. the Aelfinn/Eelfinn world). Regardless, I think traveling to "Parallel Worlds" through the redstone doorways or by using the Book of Translation was RJ's way of doing magic-based space travel in a fantasy world whereas in a sci-fi story they'd just fly there in spaceships or teleport there.

 

P.S. I'd like to add that the Parallel World:different planet comparison I made is only a frame of reference for us as readers in reality to look at it, it's not meant to be a perfect analogy/fit since this is fantasy after all.

 

Matt: Is the True Power used by any other creatures or beings within parallel or perpendicular worlds or other dimensions?

Brandon: Ok, see answering that actually gets us a 'begging the question' because . . . let’s step back: the question that people should be asking is does the Dark One exist in all of these parallels . . .

Matt: Okay, so yeah this is the question I’ll ask, you make a good point. Are there worlds and dimensions that exist outside of the Pattern?

Brandon: Ok, see that’s the question you should be asking. I mean, you should be asking it, but it doesn’t mean I’m going to answer it. [laughter] But that’s at the core of the question. I’m going to discuss it without giving you the answer. I like to do this because I think it frames the question without giving you too much information that I have that I don’t think is appropriate to share right now. Extrapolations of this question get us to: is there one Dragon for all different Parallels or are they all different Dragons? Traveling through the Portal Stone seems to indicate that there are many different lives Rand could have led. The same thing happens with several of the ter’angreal that people go through. The question then is, are those all separate universes? Do we have a multiverse sort of concept? Or are they possibilities? And do these worlds all exist, or could exist...what is the difference? In some of those Rand failed. So, is Rand the Dragon in all of them, or is Rand not the Dragon in some of them? What happens in the ones where Rand failed? Are they real worlds? Are those different worlds where there is a different Dark One who then takes over and destroys that world? Or maybe not, maybe he makes it as he wishes. Or are those just possibilities, reflections of this world that don’t really exist except when we touch them? Those are all very good questions. Robert Jordan said that Tel'aran'rhiod is a reflection of all different worlds, which implies other worlds continue to exist. The World of the 'Finns is something different…

Matt: He called it a parallel world.

Brandon: Yes, the parallel world, that one and also the one Rand and Lanfear visited are persistent regardless of someone from this world visiting.

Maria clarifies:

[Maria: I had to look it up to make sure that I had which one was which correct. The ‘finn worlds are parallel worlds, the Ogier world is a parallel world. The place that Lanfear, Rand, Loial and Hurin went to was a Mirror World, as were all of the ones in the Portal Stone incident.]

(Brandon cont.) Yet, many of those seem almost shadowy and reflections of the real world, some of them seem as real—just strange when visiting them. What happens in these different worlds? That sort of thing, those were never questions that Robert Jordan answered . . .

Matt: The answers exist?

Brandon: The answers exist, but are there many parallel Patterns or is there one Pattern?

Matt: Yeah, that’s . . . are there many Wheels or just one Wheel?

Brandon: That’s not a question, I’m afraid, that I can answer because I don’t think it’s within the scope of the books, and I don’t think that the characters . . . that there are people that could know. You will find Browns arguing all of these different things among themselves, and it’s not my place to step in and end the discussion.

-

Tamyrlin: This is in reference to a previous question I asked you about Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds, today I believe, and you mentioned they are different. And the question I had about Portal Stones was, do Portal Stones lead to Parallel Worlds, Mirror Worlds, or both?

Jordan: They lead to Mirror Worlds, the Portal Stones can take you to Mirror Worlds, not to Parallels, which are separate.

-

ToM

Winespring Brother: Are the ghost sightings and strange window seen in Tel'aran'rhiod (flame and fang) due to the Mirror Worlds merging?

Brandon: They are both due to the Pattern unraveling.

 

-

Luckers: In Rand’s portal stone experience in The Great Hunt Ch. 37, 'What Might Be', Rand sees versions of Egwene who are better at Healing than Nynaeve. The Egwene of the story can barely Heal. Are then the Egwene’s of the Mirror Worlds different souls with different abilities and Talents? Or would this again be evidence that experience can temper Talent?

Maria: This one I have no clue on. I lean towards the first explanation, but have no evidence to back it up, other than Jim’s assertion that Talents are something one is born with and cannot be learned.

-

Question Part 2[Tamyrlin]: I was interested in how the physics like with the Mirror Worlds, the world of If?

Jordan: The Mirror Worlds of course come right out of physics, and the possibility of (mumble) universes and all of the rest of it.

 

Tamyrlin: The 'Finns reside in a Parallel World, is that correct?

Jordan: Yes.

Tamyrlin: Okay, so are Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds the same thing?

Jordan: No, they are different.

Tamyrlin: Okay, well then do Parallel Worlds have their own reflections?

Jordan: Possibly.

Tamyrlin: Okay, so are Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds the same thing?

Jordan: No, they are different.

 

If you want to browse the quotes yourself, go to Theoryland.com. Click on "Forums" at the top right. Then click on "Wheel of Time Resources". Finally, click "Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson Interview Database." Categories(direct links): "Workings of the Wheel" and "The 'Finns and the Tower of Ghenjei."

[yoniy0]

@Ashandarei, there appears to be some confusion in your quotes, towards the end. In the middle of a conversation between Matt Hatch and Brandon we suddenly have quotes by Jordan and James Luckman. Was it like this in the original?

[Ashandarei]

@Ashandarei, there appears to be some confusion in your quotes, towards the end. In the middle of a conversation between Matt Hatch and Brandon we suddenly have quotes by Jordan and James Luckman. Was it like this in the original?

 

Not it definitely wasn't, I'll put a space in between separate strings of conversation to clarify, I just copy/pasted all the quotes involving parallel/mirror worlds from that category into one document and then put that up here, my apologies for any misinformation.

[yoniy0]

Not it definitely wasn't, I'll put a space in between separate strings of conversation to clarify, I just copy/pasted all the quotes involving parallel/mirror worlds from that category into one document and then put that up here, my apologies for any misinformation.

Ah, thank you. I didn't notice where Matt's handle changed, so I was surprised to see Jordan answering instead of Brandon

[Xader]

I don't think I would classify parallel words, such as that of the Finns, as a separate planet. If this were the case, they would obey the same laws of nature that Randland does.

 

We can see from the strange ways that the Finns' world twists (i.e. rounding a curve in a hallway, and suddenly the view through a window is from the opposite side of a distant landmark than before) that these worlds no not follow these same laws.

 

It seems that the Mirror Worlds seem to be those described in the Multiverse Theory. The Parallel worlds seem to exist entirely separate from Randland and its respective mirror worlds

[kraefzke]

I tried really hard not to include any ToM spoilers, but if it happened I sincerely apologize and: Please Admins/Mods, feel free to edit this post to your liking.

 

I don't think I would classify parallel words, such as that of the Finns, as a separate planet. If this were the case, they would obey the same laws of nature that Randland does.

 

We can see from the strange ways that the Finns' world twists (i.e. rounding a curve in a hallway, and suddenly the view through a window is from the opposite side of a distant landmark than before) that these worlds no not follow these same laws.

 

It seems that the Mirror Worlds seem to be those described in the Multiverse Theory. The Parallel worlds seem to exist entirely separate from Randland and its respective mirror worlds

 

Exactly my opinion, on both points.

 

@Ashandarei

Thanks for gathering the quotes. I knew most of them, but some I hadn't read before.

 

For my understanding, there is one wheel that drives Randland. I don't think there is an extra-wheel for every mirror world, I think the same wheel weaves all possibilities. But what about the parallel worlds? They can be (from what we know about Finnland) pretty different. So do they have their own wheels? Are they part of a still greater uber-pattern woven by the one and only wheels? Are they so different, that they don't even need a wheel, but have an alltogether different time-concept? I have of course no idea. But some points must be taken into consideration for theorizing:

 

ToG has a reflection in T'a'R and you CAN enter it from there (not like other places like Stedding), Birgitte tells us so. It is harder to leave if you enter via T'a'R, which has me thinking: Is that because Finnland has it's own T'a'R, where the Finns are even mightier? Or is there simply another "agreement" with the Finns (or a lack thereof) that allows them to be more ....direct.... with guests entering via T'a'R ToG? Or is it because entering from real world has you enter Finnland bodily, whereas from T'a'R only your soul (or whatever part of you it is that goes to the world of dreams) enters Finnland?

 

Also, Rand channeled in Finnland. OP is the force that drives the wheel. Was he able to do so because of Finnland's own wheel, driven by the same TS? Has Finnland's wheel its own TS? Or was he only able to tap the TS via the connection between Finnland and Randland by RedstoneDoorframe^TM (remember Moiraine's warning about how channeling in there might affect the link between the worlds)? Would he have been able to channel if he had entered by ToG? And if so, would he still have been able to do so if both Doorframes were destroyed?

[thevillagecouncil]

this is how I see it.