Who will help Rand wield Callandor?

[Sundance Kid]

Hi this is my first post at this forum. I just started reading ToM.

 

So, who do you think will help Rand wield Callandor in the last battle?

 

Maybe Alivia as she is supposed to be related to the death of Rand/LT?

 

Maybe Nyneave, she is strong too...

 

Moirane and Lanfear would surely be interesting.

[yoniy0]

I just want to remind everyone posting here that no ToM spoilers are allowed on this forum.

[Sundance Kid]

I just want to remind everyone posting here that no ToM spoilers are allowed on this forum.

 

 

Aha, seems I just have to read on then :-)

[capuga]

I just want to remind everyone posting here that no ToM spoilers are allowed on this forum.

 

 

Aha, seems I just have to read on then :-)

 

There is a spoiler forum if you are looking to discuss this with people that have read ToM. And you can still discuss this question here, yoniy0 was just reminding everyone to keep the discussion to events that have occured through tGS.

[mb]

Tarmon Gaidon? The prophecy tells nothing of when it would be used. All times up through then would have equal chance of it being used.

 

The two women could be almost anyone. Rand's two channeling lovers would be my guess.

[Sleeper]

I feel like one of them is going to be Nynaeve. The other could be Moiraine, considering she's somehow necessary for him to succeed.

[Goldstar]

Honestly, I was rather shocked in the first place that Rand didn't use Collandor for the Cleansing of Saidin. Nyneave was the one mostly handling the flows, iirc, so the buffer would have worked...

[mb]

Moiraine? Aviendha might be a better candidate for the woman that is "dead & gone" since Aviendha has had an actual return from death.

 

Though that Viewing might be a separate event than this Prophecy.

[yoniy0]

Aviendha might be a better candidate for the woman that is "dead & gone" since Aviendha has had an actual return from death.

I think that particular piece of Viewing gets misunderstood. It is my understanding that Min had a vision of Moiraine being crucial to Rand's victory, which she then referred to as seeing that he stands a very small chance of succeeding without a woman dead and gone.

[Twitchy]

Honestly, I was rather shocked in the first place that Rand didn't use Collandor for the Cleansing of Saidin. Nyneave was the one mostly handling the flows, iirc, so the buffer would have worked...

 

 

???

 

Nynaeve didn't do anything during the Cleansing besides hold being a conduit for Rand. That's why all the PoV's from Rand during the Cleansing are about him fighting with saidin and saidar, and weaving them into Shadar Logoth...

[capuga]

Honestly, I was rather shocked in the first place that Rand didn't use Collandor for the Cleansing of Saidin. Nyneave was the one mostly handling the flows, iirc, so the buffer would have worked...

 

 

???

 

Nynaeve didn't do anything during the Cleansing besides hold being a conduit for Rand. That's why all the PoV's from Rand during the Cleansing are about him fighting with saidin and saidar, and weaving them into Shadar Logoth...

 

Plus I don't think Callandor was strong enough for the Cleansing.

[Goldstar]

Honestly, I was rather shocked in the first place that Rand didn't use Collandor for the Cleansing of Saidin. Nyneave was the one mostly handling the flows, iirc, so the buffer would have worked...

 

 

???

 

Nynaeve didn't do anything during the Cleansing besides hold being a conduit for Rand. That's why all the PoV's from Rand during the Cleansing are about him fighting with saidin and saidar, and weaving them into Shadar Logoth...

 

Plus I don't think Callandor was strong enough for the Cleansing.

No, it probably wasn't, but if he could use the CK and Collandor, it would've been that much easier.

 

Nyneave wasn't simply chosen for her strength in the Power, iirc. She was also chosen because her amazing strength in healing, as Rand was partially thinking of cleansing the taint as healing a wound.

[capuga]

Honestly, I was rather shocked in the first place that Rand didn't use Collandor for the Cleansing of Saidin. Nyneave was the one mostly handling the flows, iirc, so the buffer would have worked...

 

 

???

 

Nynaeve didn't do anything during the Cleansing besides hold being a conduit for Rand. That's why all the PoV's from Rand during the Cleansing are about him fighting with saidin and saidar, and weaving them into Shadar Logoth...

 

Plus I don't think Callandor was strong enough for the Cleansing.

No, it probably wasn't, but if he could use the CK and Collandor, it would've been that much easier.

 

Nyneave wasn't simply chosen for her strength in the Power, iirc. She was also chosen because her amazing strength in healing, as Rand was partially thinking of cleansing the taint as healing a wound.

 

Well he definately got the idea on how to do it from how Flinn healed his two unhealable wounds. Flinn used the fact that the Shadow inflicted (taint) and Fain inflicted (Shadar Logoth) wounds fought against each other to seal the wounds off from the rest of his body.

[Simo]

I definitely think it's going to be Moiraine & Nyneve but Moiraine & Lanfear sounds interesting.

I've also wondered if you could get more in the link with Callandor....not just 3.

[mb]

Aviendha might be a better candidate for the woman that is "dead & gone" since Aviendha has had an actual return from death.

I think that particular piece of Viewing gets misunderstood. It is my understanding that Min had a vision of Moiraine being crucial to Rand's victory, which she then referred to as seeing that he stands a very small chance of succeeding without a woman dead and gone.

In all other Viewings up through Gathering Storm, known identities are identified by name; never by description.

[yoniy0]

In all other Viewings up through Gathering Storm, known identities are identified by name; never by description.

Yet we don't actually see Min having the Viewing, nor did she talk to someone who heard her initial wording (which sometimes come from the Viewing itself). She simply recalls having seen something. The way she refers to it is affected by what she 'knows', not just the Viewing itself.

[Sundance Kid]

I definitely think it's going to be Moiraine & Nyneve but Moiraine & Lanfear sounds interesting.

I've also wondered if you could get more in the link with Callandor....not just 3.

 

Yes, I've always wondered how evil Lanfear really is. When Rand was in Rhuidean and saw visions from his ancestors lives, I think there were a vision where Lanfear had found a new Source of power. I do not think she was aware that it was the Dark One. After that I guess she was corrupted.

 

I think it would be fitting if Lanfear in the end decides to help Rand/LTT (who she apparently loves in some way). She is, after all, the strongest woman ever, at least if she can get rid of her Cyndane-form.

[yoniy0]

Yes, I've always wondered how evil Lanfear really is. When Rand was in Rhuidean and saw visions from his ancestors lives, I think there were a vision where Lanfear had found a new Source of power. I do not think she was aware that it was the Dark One. After that I guess she was corrupted.

Recall what Rand had to say about her pre-Bore self. "And you loved power". Doesn't paint a nice picture, in that context.

[Goldstar]

Honestly, I was rather shocked in the first place that Rand didn't use Collandor for the Cleansing of Saidin. Nyneave was the one mostly handling the flows, iirc, so the buffer would have worked...

 

 

???

 

Nynaeve didn't do anything during the Cleansing besides hold being a conduit for Rand. That's why all the PoV's from Rand during the Cleansing are about him fighting with saidin and saidar, and weaving them into Shadar Logoth...

 

Plus I don't think Callandor was strong enough for the Cleansing.

No, it probably wasn't, but if he could use the CK and Collandor, it would've been that much easier.

 

Nyneave wasn't simply chosen for her strength in the Power, iirc. She was also chosen because her amazing strength in healing, as Rand was partially thinking of cleansing the taint as healing a wound.

 

Well he definately got the idea on how to do it from how Flinn healed his two unhealable wounds. Flinn used the fact that the Shadow inflicted (taint) and Fain inflicted (Shadar Logoth) wounds fought against each other to seal the wounds off from the rest of his body.

 

He sealed the wounds, but didn't heal them, iirc., right?

[Finnssss22]

He sealed the wounds, but didn't heal them, iirc., right?

 

Correct, he sealed them away together after seeing how they react to and fight each other.

 

Hard to answer this without revealing ToM spoilers as we find out who one of them is going to be.

 

So as to the other women, my bet is on Moiraine.

[sskk]

Yes, I've always wondered how evil Lanfear really is. When Rand was in Rhuidean and saw visions from his ancestors lives, I think there were a vision where Lanfear had found a new Source of power. I do not think she was aware that it was the Dark One. After that I guess she was corrupted.

Recall what Rand had to say about her pre-Bore self. "And you loved power". Doesn't paint a nice picture, in that context.

 

 

I disagree with this. It is she who freed dark one, had she gone to dark there and then, she could very well be Nae'blis. Yet she did not, it was not until LTT married another woman did she go to dark.

 

She said to Asmo that she will not launch an assault on a stronger force, indicated that she knew Rand could kill her had he wanted. She would not do it for power, yet when she found out Rand and Avi, she lost control and tried to killed Rand, without knowing Rand would not fight back.

 

Sure She wanted power, but what Lanfear wanted above all, is LTT/Rand. She loves him, maybe a twisted possessive way, but it's him who she really want, not power.

 

PS: I am not saying it's going to be Lanfear.

[yoniy0]

Well, LTT has a slight advantage over you, that of actually living with the woman. His memories tell us that he didn't feel loved, he thought the thing she wanted most of all was power. You're within your rights to disagree, naturally, but I maintain my position.

[mb]

In all other Viewings up through Gathering Storm, known identities are identified by name; never by description.

Yet we don't actually see Min having the Viewing, nor did she talk to someone who heard her initial wording (which sometimes come from the Viewing itself). She simply recalls having seen something. The way she refers to it is affected by what she 'knows', not just the Viewing itself.

Her thoughts about it are enough for me.

[yoniy0]

In all other Viewings up through Gathering Storm, known identities are identified by name; never by description.

Yet we don't actually see Min having the Viewing, nor did she talk to someone who heard her initial wording (which sometimes come from the Viewing itself). She simply recalls having seen something. The way she refers to it is affected by what she 'knows', not just the Viewing itself.

Her thoughts about it are enough for me.

You're not hearing me. It's not that I discredit her memory of the Viewing. I simply suggest that she might think of a clear Viewing concerning Moiraine in the terms we saw.

[mb]

If it was Moiraine, I think the term used would have been "Moiraine". But since the text says "a woman dead and gone", I think she saw some vague image that looked like a woman dead and gone.

 

Can you point to a different Viewing where a known identity is identified by a description?

 

The people that have access to the notes might be the only ones that know the truth about this.