Rand's nausea when channeling

[chinnma]

What color were LTT's eyes...?

[rambling]

 

No. Gray and blue are two distinct colors and no amount of playing with lighting will make you mistake one for the other.

 

I'll have to disagree there. I think I have grey eyes, but I have had people try to convince me that they are blue, or even green or hazel. I have been told that it is a lack of pigment which makes the iris appear grey, and that it is the lack of pigment which enables others to see colours reflecting from the surroundings. Hence the colour shifting. I've always assumed Rand has same colour eyes as me, nothing to with OP.

(unless I have powers I've yet to discover...)

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

People have been calling them blue or grey since the beginning.

 

 

No. Anyone who does that is colorblind or just plain stupid. They're very distinct colors.

 

 

Blue;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blueye.JPG

 

Gray;

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y59M79XgyJY/0.jpg

 

 

Might as well start calling brown eyes green or green eyes blue by your logic. They also have very different characteristics in terms of how they appear in light. Gray eyes are often hard and dull, blue eyes are more open and reflective.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

 

No. Gray and blue are two distinct colors and no amount of playing with lighting will make you mistake one for the other.

 

I'll have to disagree there. I think I have grey eyes, but I have had people try to convince me that they are blue, or even green or hazel. I have been told that it is a lack of pigment which makes the iris appear grey, and that it is the lack of pigment which enables others to see colours reflecting from the surroundings. Hence the colour shifting. I've always assumed Rand has same colour eyes as me, nothing to with OP.

(unless I have powers I've yet to discover...)

 

 

That's anecdotal and says more about the intelligence of the people you acquaint yourself with than giving an actual answer on the subject. As you yourself said scientifically they're different since they have different pigmentation. What you're attempting to do, to give an alternate example, is convince that orange is actually pink.

 

What's telling about this entire matter is that the "Rand blue eyes" only started appearing later in the series well past the balefire incident. Prior to that it was always "gray eyes, hard as rocks, hard as stone, etc.." Whereas we know that Moridin has sharp blue eyes and that Rand is connected to him on a metaphysical level to the point that they can see through eachothers eyes. Which is again telling in itself.

[herid]

 

 

What's telling about this entire matter is that the "Rand blue eyes" only started appearing later in the series well past the balefire incident. Prior to that it was always "gray eyes, hard as rocks, hard as stone, etc.."

That's what I thought too and that's what prompted my original claim. But as others have pointed in this thread, Rand's eyes have been described as blue and gray well before the balefire incident. Take the quotes that Terez gives. This is from CoS from before the showdown in SL:

"Kiss me," she mumbled. When he did not move, she looked up. He blinked at her uncertainly, eyes now blue, now gray, a morning sky. "I’m not teasing." How often had she teased him, sitting on his lap, kissing him, calling him sheepherder because she dared not say his name for fear he might hear the caress? He put up with it because he thought she was teasing and would stop if she believed it did not affect him. Hah! Aunt Jan and Aunt Rana said you should not kiss a man unless you intended to marry him, but Aunt Miren seemed to know a little more of the world. She said you should not kiss a man too casually because men fell in love so easily. "I’m cold inside, sheepherder. Colavaere, and Master Fel... I need to feel warm flesh. I need... Please?"

Another quote she gave is from the Ravens (i.e before TEoTW). I've found some other examples at the time. Here is one more from DR CH 27

 

Egwene’s lips compressed, but she stepped out. I did not! “It’s me, Rand. Do not be afraid. It is a dream. I must be in your dreams.”

 

He was on his feet so suddenly that she stopped dead. He seemed in some way larger than she remembered. And a touch dangerous. Perhaps more than a touch. His blue-gray eyes seemed to burn like frozen fire.

 

“Do you think I don’t know it is a dream?” he sneered.

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Then the eye transformation might be less to do with Moridin and more to do with LTT. Since eyes morphing color is very odd and out of place.

[rambling]

 

No. Gray and blue are two distinct colors and no amount of playing with lighting will make you mistake one for the other.

 

I'll have to disagree there. I think I have grey eyes, but I have had people try to convince me that they are blue, or even green or hazel. I have been told that it is a lack of pigment which makes the iris appear grey, and that it is the lack of pigment which enables others to see colours reflecting from the surroundings. Hence the colour shifting. I've always assumed Rand has same colour eyes as me, nothing to with OP.

(unless I have powers I've yet to discover...)

 

 

That's anecdotal and says more about the intelligence of the people you acquaint yourself with than giving an actual answer on the subject. As you yourself said scientifically they're different since they have different pigmentation. What you're attempting to do, to give an alternate example, is convince that orange is actually pink.

 

What's telling about this entire matter is that the "Rand blue eyes" only started appearing later in the series well past the balefire incident. Prior to that it was always "gray eyes, hard as rocks, hard as stone, etc.." Whereas we know that Moridin has sharp blue eyes and that Rand is connected to him on a metaphysical level to the point that they can see through eachothers eyes. Which is again telling in itself.

 

All I'm trying to say is that IMO you're reading too much into this

Colour is a quality of light and easily affected by external factors - given the right conditions you can make orange look pink.

And there is no need to be rude

[showerlilly]

So, I think the nausea has stopped because Rand isn't using the one power anymore, He is using the True power. I don't think I saw Him once try and grab on to the source in TOM and When they went to meet the borderlanders in Far Medding, Rand said something about not being bothered by not being able to Channel the one power because he didnt need it or some such thing ( I can look it up here shortly) It would also explain his great increase in power and why he is no longer scared of a circle of aes sedia, hence His calmness in Tar Valon. Just a a thought

[capuga]

So, I think the nausea has stopped because Rand isn't using the one power anymore, He is using the True power. I don't think I saw Him once try and grab on to the source in TOM and When they went to meet the borderlanders in Far Medding, Rand said something about not being bothered by not being able to Channel the one power because he didnt need it or some such thing ( I can look it up here shortly) It would also explain his great increase in power and why he is no longer scared of a circle of aes sedia, hence His calmness in Tar Valon. Just a a thought

 

Couple of counter-points:

 

1. I find it unlikely that Zen Rand would willingly use the True Power so I doubt he uses it during ToM.

2. The other Asha'man in Maradon can see Rand's weaves so he is not using the True Power there.

3. Pretty sure the RJ said that a shield will also shield the channeler from the True Power. So his confindence against the circle of Aes Sedai must have come from something else.

4. We don't see any evidence of saa in Rand's eyes which he would likely have if he was using the True Power throughout ToM.

[rambling]

So, I think the nausea has stopped because Rand isn't using the one power anymore, He is using the True power. I don't think I saw Him once try and grab on to the source in TOM and When they went to meet the borderlanders in Far Medding, Rand said something about not being bothered by not being able to Channel the one power because he didnt need it or some such thing ( I can look it up here shortly) It would also explain his great increase in power and why he is no longer scared of a circle of aes sedia, hence His calmness in Tar Valon. Just a a thought

 

It may well be that access to the TP has stopped the nausea, I certainly agree that it would give him a confidence boost, but Rand is still using OP in TOM (Naeff can see the weaves when Rand saves Maradon).

 

oops, got beaten to it

[UncleButcher1980]

What's telling about this entire matter is that the "Rand blue eyes" only started appearing later in the series well past the balefire incident. Prior to that it was always "gray eyes, hard as rocks, hard as stone, etc.."

 

No. Read the quote earlier in this thread from 'Ravens'. His eyes have been blue or grey since the beginning.

[AvroChris]

What's telling about this entire matter is that the "Rand blue eyes" only started appearing later in the series well past the balefire incident. Prior to that it was always "gray eyes, hard as rocks, hard as stone, etc.."

 

No. Read the quote earlier in this thread from 'Ravens'. His eyes have been blue or grey since the beginning.

 

I can't really remember much earlier, but certainly in the Shadow Rising...

I would also like to point out that my eyes seem to vary from brown to hazel depending on the light, and then if you look up close in good light they seem pretty much green. Things look different colours in different lights - colour comes from the wavelengths of light which are absorbed or reflected, clearly this doesn't change, but if there's less of one wavelength to reflect then clearly the colour will appear different.

[showerlilly]

Couple of counter-points:

 

1. I find it unlikely that Zen Rand would willingly use the True Power so I doubt he uses it during ToM.

2. The other Asha'man in Maradon can see Rand's weaves so he is not using the True Power there.

3. Pretty sure the RJ said that a shield will also shield the channeler from the True Power. So his confindence against the circle of Aes Sedai must have come from something else.

4. We don's see any evidence of saa in Rand's eyes which he would likely have if he was using the True Power throughout ToM.

 

1. Ive been wondering how he can use the dark ones power as well and not have problems, but Im still convinced

2. Thanks for pointing that out about Maradon, I missed that you are right he must have used the one power

3. Ive never read that, so I would not know if that is true or not

4. Hes been using it for such a short time I dont think he would have gotten them yet, There wern't any in Graendals eyes yet either

 

the only thing you didnt answer was what he said in far medding then, if He was so worried about using it, why would he be so confident that he didnt need the one power in Far medding??

[AvroChris]

I imagine it's to do with the difference between a shield and the Guardian. I wonder if you could channel the TP in a stedding?

[capuga]

Couple of counter-points:

 

1. I find it unlikely that Zen Rand would willingly use the True Power so I doubt he uses it during ToM.

2. The other Asha'man in Maradon can see Rand's weaves so he is not using the True Power there.

3. Pretty sure the RJ said that a shield will also shield the channeler from the True Power. So his confindence against the circle of Aes Sedai must have come from something else.

4. We don's see any evidence of saa in Rand's eyes which he would likely have if he was using the True Power throughout ToM.

 

1. Ive been wondering how he can use the dark ones power as well and not have problems, but Im still convinced

2. Thanks for pointing that out about Maradon, I missed that you are right he must have used the one power

3. Ive never read that, so I would not know if that is true or not

4. Hes been using it for such a short time I dont think he would have gotten them yet, There wern't any in Graendals eyes yet either

 

the only thing you didnt answer was what he said in far medding then, if He was so worried about using it, why would he be so confident that he didnt need the one power in Far medding??

 

Wanted to make sure that I was remembering things correctly so I found the quote regarding the True Power and shields:

 

Week 8 Question: When a person that can channel is shielded, where is the shield placed? Is it placed around the whole body of the person or around the head of the channeler where they sense saidin/saidar? If you are shielded from the One Power, are you also shielded from the True Power? What happens if someone in a circle is shielded? Can a Warder feel that his Aes Sedai is shielded?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: A shield exists both as a barrier around the entire person and as a single point along with everything in between. (In a way, this is like the Bore, which does not actually exist as Shayol Ghul. The Bore exists everywhere, but Shayol Ghul is the place where it can best be detected. Which is not to say that there is any connection between the Bore and a shield. Both simply exist in different states simultaneously.) Someone who is shielded and trying to get past the shield can "feel" their way along its inner "surface" hunting for weaknesses, such as the points that indicate where the shield is being maintained or has been tied off. Shielding against the One Power will indeed stop someone from reaching for the True Power.18 It isn't possible to shield one person out of a circle since, in effect, the circle has become a single person for the purpose of channeling. You would have to shield the entire circle, which would require either a circle of your own or a pretty hefty sa'angreal. A Warder cannot feel that his Aes Sedai has been shielded, though he would be aware of any agitation on her part. But this would tell him no more than that she was agitated.

 

In regards to Far Madding - I agree that Rand was refering to using the True Power on the Borderlanders. He apparently would have been able to access it because the Far Madding guardians don't function like a shield. However, note that he was using the past tense. He said if they had slapped him before VoG he would have responded with True Power balefire. Zen Rand ended up not responding that way. Whether or not that is by choice or because he no longer has access to the True Power remains to be seen.

[herid]

Couple of counter-points:

 

1. I find it unlikely that Zen Rand would willingly use the True Power so I doubt he uses it during ToM.

2. The other Asha'man in Maradon can see Rand's weaves so he is not using the True Power there.

3. Pretty sure the RJ said that a shield will also shield the channeler from the True Power. So his confindence against the circle of Aes Sedai must have come from something else.

4. We don's see any evidence of saa in Rand's eyes which he would likely have if he was using the True Power throughout ToM.

 

1. Ive been wondering how he can use the dark ones power as well and not have problems, but Im still convinced

2. Thanks for pointing that out about Maradon, I missed that you are right he must have used the one power

3. Ive never read that, so I would not know if that is true or not

4. Hes been using it for such a short time I dont think he would have gotten them yet, There wern't any in Graendals eyes yet either

 

the only thing you didnt answer was what he said in far medding then, if He was so worried about using it, why would he be so confident that he didnt need the one power in Far medding??

 

Wanted to make sure that I was remembering things correctly so I found the quote regarding the True Power and shields:

 

Week 8 Question: When a person that can channel is shielded, where is the shield placed? Is it placed around the whole body of the person or around the head of the channeler where they sense saidin/saidar? If you are shielded from the One Power, are you also shielded from the True Power? What happens if someone in a circle is shielded? Can a Warder feel that his Aes Sedai is shielded?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: A shield exists both as a barrier around the entire person and as a single point along with everything in between. (In a way, this is like the Bore, which does not actually exist as Shayol Ghul. The Bore exists everywhere, but Shayol Ghul is the place where it can best be detected. Which is not to say that there is any connection between the Bore and a shield. Both simply exist in different states simultaneously.) Someone who is shielded and trying to get past the shield can "feel" their way along its inner "surface" hunting for weaknesses, such as the points that indicate where the shield is being maintained or has been tied off. Shielding against the One Power will indeed stop someone from reaching for the True Power.18 It isn't possible to shield one person out of a circle since, in effect, the circle has become a single person for the purpose of channeling. You would have to shield the entire circle, which would require either a circle of your own or a pretty hefty sa'angreal. A Warder cannot feel that his Aes Sedai has been shielded, though he would be aware of any agitation on her part. But this would tell him no more than that she was agitated.

 

 

I wonder if it's possible to shield someone using a well.

[Entreri]

The effect of pregnancy

[quick ben]

Does anybody have a theory on why Rand was getting nauseous when channeling prior to his transformation at the end of tGS and why he doesn't anymore?

 

My out there crazy theory is to coincide with his visit and attempted annihilation of the Seanchan.

It think the sickness and dizziness may have been building and building and culminated at that point to prevent him from wiping them out..

Coincidence..? did the pattern bring him to that point..? Now I'm thinking the Seanchan have a more important role to play than initially first thought.

 

Whether it was linked to Moridin.. or his LTT seperation psychosis..? i'm not sure..

My personal opinion is the LTT pyschosis.. i understand that it only appeared after the moridin incident however nothing has changed with his link with Moridin however the LTT/Rand seperation has.

 

Just my 2 cents..

[navahgar]

I don't have the books in front of me, but I suspect that the 'dizziness' and the 'sickness' are two different things. On the one hand, I think that the 'dizziness' is something he experiences whenever there's a weird-psuedo-crossover between himself and Moridin...something that may or may not happen when he reaches out for the source. This 'dizziness' is related to the connection between the two that formed in Shadar Logoth with the balefire streams. On the other hand, I think that the 'sickness' is something that he had begun to feel when accessing the source due to his divergence from the appropriate path that the Pattern intended. The more 'cold' and 'hard' and 'evil' he became, the harder it became for him to connect to the source. This disappeared with his epiphany atop dragonmount. The fact that the 'sickness' appears to have started around the same time as the balefire incident is either coincidental, or indicates that this was a significant moment in Rand's fall from grace.

[Luckers]

Couple of counter-points:

 

1. I find it unlikely that Zen Rand would willingly use the True Power so I doubt he uses it during ToM.

2. The other Asha'man in Maradon can see Rand's weaves so he is not using the True Power there.

3. Pretty sure the RJ said that a shield will also shield the channeler from the True Power. So his confindence against the circle of Aes Sedai must have come from something else.

4. We don's see any evidence of saa in Rand's eyes which he would likely have if he was using the True Power throughout ToM.

 

1. Ive been wondering how he can use the dark ones power as well and not have problems, but Im still convinced

2. Thanks for pointing that out about Maradon, I missed that you are right he must have used the one power

3. Ive never read that, so I would not know if that is true or not

4. Hes been using it for such a short time I dont think he would have gotten them yet, There wern't any in Graendals eyes yet either

 

the only thing you didnt answer was what he said in far medding then, if He was so worried about using it, why would he be so confident that he didnt need the one power in Far medding??

 

Wanted to make sure that I was remembering things correctly so I found the quote regarding the True Power and shields:

 

Week 8 Question: When a person that can channel is shielded, where is the shield placed? Is it placed around the whole body of the person or around the head of the channeler where they sense saidin/saidar? If you are shielded from the One Power, are you also shielded from the True Power? What happens if someone in a circle is shielded? Can a Warder feel that his Aes Sedai is shielded?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: A shield exists both as a barrier around the entire person and as a single point along with everything in between. (In a way, this is like the Bore, which does not actually exist as Shayol Ghul. The Bore exists everywhere, but Shayol Ghul is the place where it can best be detected. Which is not to say that there is any connection between the Bore and a shield. Both simply exist in different states simultaneously.) Someone who is shielded and trying to get past the shield can "feel" their way along its inner "surface" hunting for weaknesses, such as the points that indicate where the shield is being maintained or has been tied off. Shielding against the One Power will indeed stop someone from reaching for the True Power.18 It isn't possible to shield one person out of a circle since, in effect, the circle has become a single person for the purpose of channeling. You would have to shield the entire circle, which would require either a circle of your own or a pretty hefty sa'angreal. A Warder cannot feel that his Aes Sedai has been shielded, though he would be aware of any agitation on her part. But this would tell him no more than that she was agitated.

 

 

I wonder if it's possible to shield someone using a well.

 

 

Wells enable you to channel whilst shielded, so I doubt it. Of course there may be a way of weaving a different shield to block this.

[fikkie77]

The effect of pregnancy

After all those theories about the Taint, Rand's madness, link with Moridin, Dark Rand... in the end it all comes back to a woman Rand is linked to that's pregnant...

 

lol...

[chalpst]

At the end of TGS Rand and Lews Therin became one person, Rand destroyed the Key and the most powerful ter angreal in existance and basically infused himself with light.

Ok, so, the sickness and nausea he experienced was due to the huge amount of channeling he had done while the source was still tainted. Even after he cleansed saidan he still experienced this sickness because the taint is still within him. But, now the light is also within him in abundance, pushing back the effect of sickness the taint causes... The vision Min saw of two men becoming one was Lews Therin and Rand. Rand no longer hears Therins voice inside his head, but has, in a way, absorbed the knowledge and personality of Therin.

[herid]

 

 

I wonder if it's possible to shield someone using a well.

 

 

Wells enable you to channel whilst shielded, so I doubt it. Of course there may be a way of weaving a different shield to block this.

I may have missed it but do we know for sure that wells enable one to channel whilst shielded? It works in Far Madding, yes, but that's not quite the same as being shielded.

Jordan's quote above says that shielding someone prevents them from channeling both TP and OP, while the Far Madding terangreal only stops prevents channeling OP. so we know that a shield does not work the same as that terangreal.

[herid]

At the end of TGS Rand and Lews Therin became one person, Rand destroyed the Key and the most powerful ter angreal in existance and basically infused himself with light.

Ok, so, the sickness and nausea he experienced was due to the huge amount of channeling he had done while the source was still tainted. Even after he cleansed saidan he still experienced this sickness because the taint is still within him. But, now the light is also within him in abundance, pushing back the effect of sickness the taint causes... The vision Min saw of two men becoming one was Lews Therin and Rand. Rand no longer hears Therins voice inside his head, but has, in a way, absorbed the knowledge and personality of Therin.

no, the sickness is completely unrelated to the taint which is why it didn't stop after the cleansing of saidin. It's caused by Rand's link with Moridin. See Luckers' post above. He gives an an excellent explanation of this. Also, RJ explicitly confirmed that it has nothing to do with the taint.

http://www.wotdb.com/interviews/question/587

 

Lastly, the two men merging in Min's vision are not Rand and LT but Rand and Moridin. Rand and LT were always the same person as Rand explains in ToM when talking to Min on the way to Far madding.

[Luckers]

 

 

I wonder if it's possible to shield someone using a well.

 

 

Wells enable you to channel whilst shielded, so I doubt it. Of course there may be a way of weaving a different shield to block this.

I may have missed it but do we know for sure that wells enable one to channel whilst shielded? It works in Far Madding, yes, but that's not quite the same as being shielded.

Jordan's quote above says that shielding someone prevents them from channeling both TP and OP, while the Far Madding terangreal only stops prevents channeling OP. so we know that a shield does not work the same as that terangreal.

 

We do indeed know for sure. From my thread about what Cadsuane and Nynaeve's ter'angreal can do...

 

Q: Can someone channel from a Well while shielded?

 

RJ: Yes, they could. If they had the Well.

 

[tarvalon.net Q&A 26th of Febuary 2003, found through the Theoryland Interview Database]

 

 

At the end of TGS Rand and Lews Therin became one person, Rand destroyed the Key and the most powerful ter angreal in existance and basically infused himself with light.

Ok, so, the sickness and nausea he experienced was due to the huge amount of channeling he had done while the source was still tainted. Even after he cleansed saidan he still experienced this sickness because the taint is still within him. But, now the light is also within him in abundance, pushing back the effect of sickness the taint causes... The vision Min saw of two men becoming one was Lews Therin and Rand. Rand no longer hears Therins voice inside his head, but has, in a way, absorbed the knowledge and personality of Therin.

no, the sickness is completely unrelated to the taint which is why it didn't stop after the cleansing of saidin. It's caused by Rand's link with Moridin. See Luckers' post above. He gives an an excellent explanation of this. Also, RJ explicitly confirmed that it has nothing to do with the taint.

http://www.wotdb.com/interviews/question/587

 

Lastly, the two men merging in Min's vision are not Rand and LT but Rand and Moridin. Rand and LT were always the same person as Rand explains in ToM when talking to Min on the way to Far madding.

 

I disagree about your interpretation about LTT and Rand. They were always the same soul, but they were very different personalities.

 

That being said, here is my essay on the 'sickness' and Rand's link...