RJ asks you to re-write the entire series...

[jedislayer]

RJ asks you to re-write the entire series; what storylines, characters, or powers do you change?

 

The following topics are ones that I would adjust-

 

1) Remove land of madmen and shara from the story- I've never understood why they are in an end of a world epic, when they are probably not going to affect the outcome.

 

2) Tone down a few of the character traits- Example: Faile is a great character, but she does get on my nerves every now and then. Not every character or person for that matter has an amazingly strong will and an outspoken attitude.

 

3) Action Rand Action- I enjoy the political intrigue, but to me the best chapters are when Rand is fighting or when he is acting on a plan. Add one or two more action bits into the books for Rand, he the hero!

 

4) Rewrite CoT like the rest of the books, RJ has said that CoT didn't come out as well as he would hope (not 100% on that). If RJ rewrote the book I'm sure it would be better than the original.

 

5) Don't have the bad guys get reborn. This seemed to easy when compared to the rest of the series. I think that as the Forsaken got clipped, SH could slow become more prevalent. I may be biased because I love SH as a bad guy! I also think that the TP is not as interesting as the OP.

 

I would never presume to say that I could improve the books, but those are a few of the things on my wish list. I love the series and cannot wait for the final installment.

[edman]

1) Remove land of madmen and shara from the story- I've never understood why they are in an end of a world epic, when they are probably not going to affect the outcome.

 

I think RJ probably would have worked them in but with his current health situation, I think he may feel rushed to try to finish the books.

[Gentled Ben]

I saw someone say on another thread that they suspect that perhaps the Shadow has been training Dreadlords for many years and been using the Land of

Madmen to house them. I think that's interesting, although there isn't really anything in the books to correlate that, precisely. I don't think that either land will figure into the story much either, but it doesn't hurt to have some mysterious places in the world upon which to speculate after the tale has been told. :)

 

Personally, I wouldn't be upset if Faile ended up in a trolloc cookpot, and I don't care how much it would make Perrin weep. I was rooting for Moiraine to turn her into a toad in TDR! I've never liked her. *shakes head*

 

You might enjoy Glen Cook's Black Company novels. They're (much) thinner on political intrigue and heavier on action, and for the most part, the bad guys stay dead.

[Luckers]

My only reason for saying that about the Land of the Madmen is that the stories of those lands strike me as unlikely... kinda like a smokescreen to keep people away.

[ajfurst]

The rumour (or was it more?) that there was going to be someone else leave the Two Rivers with them and die in the first book - would go with that. Overall the weakest point of the story (in my opinion) is it's like an Arnie movie - no matter how many bullets get shot at the main character (or characters in WOT) you know they won't die.

 

I would have had one of the main characters (outside the 3 ta'veren) die by book 3 and AT LEAST another couple by the end of KoD. By main I include Faile, Egwene, Elayne, Gawyn, Faile, Galad, Lan, Nynaeve, Faile, Min, Amys, Sorilea, Faile, Moraine (die as in dead, not captured).

 

Plus a few minor ones - Perrin's parents die, but we never saw them. The battle for the Two Rivers would have been even more of a heart jerker if Abell Cauthon or one of Mat's sisters, or one of Egwene's parents - characters 'met' had died in the final battle, rather then just umpteen Coplin's, Congars or Lewins. And unless Morgase is going to be central to the last book, I'd have her die trying to escape the Seanchan. She's been used as the POV to see them taking over down South, the whole joining Perrin thing didn't add anything.

 

The WOT is my favourite fantasy, but one thing I do like especially about ASoIaF is you never know if the main characters you like are going to survive the next chapter. WOT lost that edge of the seat factor by book 3 or 4.

[Leopoled Boothe]

1) Remove land of madmen and shara from the story- I've never understood why they are in an end of a world epic, when they are probably not going to affect the outcome.

 

-I would keep them. I don't think RJ ever intened to expand much on Shara. Although the story is centered in Randland (the main continent) with some heavy Seanchan influnce, I think RJ included some other lands to let us know that Randland was part of a much wider world. Somehow having unknown lands just gives the story a touch of realism. As to the Land of Madmen, I suspect we will lean more about it in aMOL. It has to interesting a name not to play some part in the story.

 

2) Tone down a few of the character traits- Example: Faile is a great character, but she does get on my nerves every now and then. Not every character or person for that matter has an amazingly strong will and an outspoken attitude.

 

-I agree with you about Faile yet I love her and she is one of my favorites. Yes, she can grate on my nerves at times but then again some to some of my best friends. Moreover, simple fact of the matter is that not every person has a strong will or outspoken attitude. Human beings are not perfect and we all have some undesirable traits, and I like the way Jordan's characters reflect this. I would't change a thing about the characters.

 

3) Action Rand Action- I enjoy the political intrigue, but to me the best chapters are when Rand is fighting or when he is acting on a plan. Add one or two more action bits into the books for Rand, he the hero!

 

- I have to agree with you hear, sometimes the political intrigue is a bit overdone.

 

4) Rewrite CoT like the rest of the books, RJ has said that CoT didn't come out as well as he would hope (not 100% on that). If RJ rewrote the book I'm sure it would be better than the original.

 

- can't comment on this as I have not yet read CoT.

 

5) Don't have the bad guys get reborn. This seemed to easy when compared to the rest of the series. I think that as the Forsaken got clipped, SH could slow become more prevalent. I may be biased because I love SH as a bad guy! I also think that the TP is not as interesting as the OP.

 

- For the most part I agree. I would definilty bring Ishy and Lanfear back but beyond that I would let the bad guys stay dead. These resurections are happening way to often and it just makes to Dark One seem a bit to forgiving, considering that he is the source of all evil I would think he would have almost zero tollerance for failure. Aginor and Bathamel were great in their roles at the end of tEoTW but I just don't think it was necesary to bring them back (if they are infact the gars). Personally I'd have rather seen more of Asmodean and less of the toxic twins.

 

I would never presume to say that I could improve the books, but those are a few of the things on my wish list. I love the series and cannot wait for the final installment.

 

-Damned strait!!!

[Leopoled Boothe]

There if very little I would change about the series but there are a couple of things.

 

1. I would not kill off Asmodean so quickly. There really could have been some interesting character development with this one considering he was in a unique position of having his heart belong to the shadow but his only hope of survival being to serve the light. If Asomdean had lived there would always be the potential for him to betray Rand at a key moment during TG thus regaining the DO's good graces. However, despite being Forsaken Asmodean is human that thus he would probably begin to develop with Rand the sort of bond that occures between and teacher and his student. Instead of having to guess at who killed Asmodean I think it would be more interesting if we had to guess at wether he was truly loyal to Rand or if he would untimaly betray him.

 

2. I would have Aginor and Bathamel stay dead. Don't get me wrong, they were great in their roles at the end of tEotW but they just are not interesting enough to justify bringing them back. Besides lets look at how they were killed. One is taken down by a walking tree and the other by a boy fresh off the farm. Granted said farmboy is the Dragon Reborn but at this point he has had very little training with either the sword or the OP. Given that the the DO is the source of all evil I wouldn't think he would one to tollerate failure. I guess there is a slim chance that the DO would realize that the Green Man is no joke a may forgive Bathamel, but having been beaten by a child still wet behind the ears I would think Aginor's would now be considered less than useless by the DO and his prospects for resurection would be nil. So it short if just never made sense to me that they were brought back.

[Leopoled Boothe]

The WOT is my favourite fantasy' date=' but one thing I do like especially about ASoIaF is you never know if the main characters you like are going to survive the next chapter. WOT lost that edge of the seat factor by book 3 or 4.[/quote']

 

I agree, the books would have more of on edge of the seat fell if a few main characters had be picked off throughout the series or at least a few minor ones that we actually care about. However, it think that some of the major characters may die in aMoL. To me the most likely candidates are:

 

Rand: Of course this is always a possiblity considering the prophacy and all, however I think this has been adequatly covered on this site so I don't feel the need to elaborate.

 

Thom: Having helped Rand to complete his destiny Thom will finally be able to forgive himself for what happend to his nephew. So he will die but will be able to rest in peace.

 

Nyneave: I hope not b/c she is a personal favorite of mine and I'd really like to see her live happily ever after with Lan. However, she has always been so determined to protect the other Emond's Feilders that I could totally see he sacraficing herself to save one or more of them.

 

Lan: Of course in this scinerio Nyneave lives because he would most likely go down defending her, but Lan is all about honor and duty so I could totally see him giving his life for another, possibly by sheathing the sword.

 

Avihenda or Min (or Elayne but much less likely): I could see one of Rand's women dying so that he can get good a pissed off before battling the DO. If this happens, however, I seriously doubt it will be Elayne; I'm sure that Camylen (sp) will still exist after TG and that she is destined to become the great Aes Sedai queen.

 

Tam. (Don't guess he is a main character but definitly a minor one that we care about). Alternatly to one of Rand's women I could see his death serving as a plot device to get Rand good and pissed off before facing the DO. In any case I think that there will be a death that will make Rands fight with the DO deeply personal.

 

Now I'm not predicting that all of these characters will die, I'm just saying that if anyone does die it will mostly likely be one or more of these characters.

[Draven]

Mmm...good topic, man. There's a few things that I think could have made TWoT this "perfect" fantasy novel in my point of view.

 

First: as I've already said, it could have been made a lot shorter. There's just TOO much unnecessary characters and storylines. And I hated the fact that it takes Rand forever to kill a Forsaken only to have some of them REVIVED! (Man, I really can't wait to see how

RJ is going to justify all this in the last book, and

how he's going to make it all FIT!) :twisted:

 

Second: (and almost as annoying) is the women-over-men thing. It's one thing to portray women as "equal" to men, another to make them "superior." This concept is just too weird even by fantasy standards, and especially from a male author. I would have made the women equal to men at most, so Rand and

Mat wouldn't have to act like such milksops in the prescence of Cadsuane and Tuon. I would have had Rand

switch Cadsuane for every slap/spank, Tarmon Gaidon or not, heh, heh.

 

Other than that, everything seems alright.

[Jellybelly]

Second: (and almost as annoying) is the women-over-men thing. It's one thing to portray women as "equal" to men, another to make them "superior." This concept is just too weird even by fantasy standards, and especially from a male author.

 

Wow. That really displayed tons of immaturity and buried misogynism. Why is it so weird to have a world where women have the position men have traditionally had in this world? Given RJ's justification for it, it is not weird at all.

 

I for one, am of the breed that does not think it a bad thing when literature makes me feel irritated -unless I am irritated by the fact that a book is badly written, of course. Sure, I feel irritated a lot of times when the women who have a sort of stronger position make unfair judgments on the men, and treat them poorly without reason. That does not make me want to remove that aspect from the books because it offends my perception of myself as a man and how men should be treated by women, however.

[Luckers]

I agree... Though Draven has displayed his stereotypical veiw before.

[Lopar]

1. I would include alot more of Fain and his manuvering especially in the latter part of the series.

 

2. I would have advanced the Moiraine "rescue" plot much earlier.

 

3. I would have resolved the Faile kidnapping plot line in one book...two max.

 

4. Same as above for Elayne securing Andor. Two books max to resolve this stagnating thread.

 

5. I would include more scenes of Mazrim Taim and the Black Tower.

 

6. Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight would have been edited heavily to remove much of the usless exposition and combined into one story. (This would also help to achive point 3 and 4).

 

7. Rand would have physically beat down Saemael in Shadar Logoth. It would have been a good old fashioned ass whooping ending with some kind of Mortal Kombat finishing move. We have not seen anything like this from Rand in a long time.

 

8. Perrin would have bitch slaped the Profit in his "office" and Traveled out to Safty with Maesma in tow. End of pointless & annoying Profit thread...

 

9. The Sea Folk would be 3.7 X less annoying than they are currently.

 

10. There would be at least one Halima/Greandal "Far Snows" secene...

[Draven]

Oh, please, you've got to be kidding me. :lol: Are you trying to start something with me again, hmmm? I don't mind. At least I'm not the one off-topic here.

[Gandaal]

1. Make Perrin giving up the axe more interesting and not so anti-climatic

2. Write Nynaeve better. I realise that she's damaged herself by forcing herself to become angry time and time again but that doesn't mean that she has to lose all of her common sense.

3. More Rand in the latter books, prehaps a plot line about him dealing with the Borderlanders, or using the Sea Folk to give some meaning and purpose to their prophecy, or ending the seige of Tear and hanging every last rebel leader from the top of the battlements, or actually using the Aiel to kill someone other than the Shaido for a change and sending them to conquer Murandy, or speaking to the Ogier to gather their support for the last battle, or sticking his nose into Andor and getting into a arguement with Elayne about that and the independence of the Two Rivers, or traveling to Seanchan and acidentally causing the upheaval that killed the Empress, or a hundred other things he could be doing right now that's actually interesting instead of having sword fights with unimportant nobles for no apparent reason, and traveling to a city, again for no apparent reason, where he's pretty much helpless and generally sitting on his arse doing nothing.

4. Have Moiraine already saved and back in the picture by now instead of leaving her rescue to the last minute (surely it could've been fit into the story somewhere by now... after all there was an entire book with absolutely no mention of Mat. His story could've easily been more advanced than it is with absolutely no loss).

5. Faile and co never get captured by the Shaido. Absolute waste of time that doesn't achieve anything or advance the plot of the overall story in any concieveable way. And its boring to boot. Have Perrin accidentally decapitate Masema in front of his followers instead with his Aes Sedai and Asha'men nearby. Now that would be a fun read.

[Guest Majsju]

4. Have Moiraine already saved and back in the picture by now instead of leaving her rescue to the last minute (surely it could've been fit into the story somewhere by now... after all there was an entire book with absolutely no mention of Mat. His story could've easily been more advanced than it is with absolutely no loss).

 

Moiraine can't be rescued earlier. How would that have happened? It's important that Mat is a part of it, and he has been quite busy since Thom got the letter.

As for an entire book without Mat, keep in mind that he spent that enitre book in bed with a broken leg. Not very fun to read about, except perhaps that pink ribbon-incident...

 

5. Faile and co never get captured by the Shaido. Absolute waste of time that doesn't achieve anything or advance the plot of the overall story in any concieveable way. And its boring to boot. Have Perrin accidentally decapitate Masema in front of his followers instead with his Aes Sedai and Asha'men nearby. Now that would be a fun read.

 

Didn't achieve anything? The Shaido destroyed, and those who survived running for their lives back to the Aiel Waste. Masema's dragonsworn destroyed, he's got 200 left out of 20000. Perrin's temporary truce with the Seanchan that might prove very valuable later. A very proper punishment for one of the Black Ajah involved in kidnapping Rand...

 

The plotline could have been written better perhaps, but it would have been nearly impossible to leave it out.

 

Wow. That really displayed tons of immaturity and buried misogynism. Why is it so weird to have a world where women have the position men have traditionally had in this world? Given RJ's justification for it, it is not weird at all.

 

I second that.

[Gandaal]

4. Have Moiraine already saved and back in the picture by now instead of leaving her rescue to the last minute (surely it could've been fit into the story somewhere by now... after all there was an entire book with absolutely no mention of Mat. His story could've easily been more advanced than it is with absolutely no loss).

 

Moiraine can't be rescued earlier. How would that have happened? It's important that Mat is a part of it, and he has been quite busy since Thom got the letter.

As for an entire book without Mat, keep in mind that he spent that enitre book in bed with a broken leg. Not very fun to read about, except perhaps that pink ribbon-incident...

 

It's not really that difficult to go from Mat having a broken leg to Mat not having a broken leg. All you have to figure out is another pretext to keep him in the city which really wouldn't be that hard to achieve.

[Guest Majsju]

It's not really that difficult to go from Mat having a broken leg to Mat not having a broken leg.

 

The only way for Mat's leg to heal faster than it does is for Mat to accept Healing. Which brings two serious problems. 1. That is SO out of character for Mat that it could not happen in any credible way. 2. Ebou Dar is packed with Seanchan, which means that there are not exactly a bunch of Aes Sedai walking around able to Heal him even if he had wanted to. And if one of the hidden sisters had done it, the Seanchan might have figured out what had happened to him, and thus learned for sure that there are still at least one Aes Sedai left in the city, which would have made the escape that much harder.

 

And if RJ had moved Mat's storyline forward a couple of months just to have him in the book, he would have been out of synch with the rest of the characters, and that would have meant less Mat-time somewhere else, so others could catch up.

[Gandaal]

The only way for Mat's leg to heal faster than it does is for Mat to accept Healing. Which brings two serious problems. 1. That is SO out of character for Mat that it could not happen in any credible way. 2. Ebou Dar is packed with Seanchan, which means that there are not exactly a bunch of Aes Sedai walking around able to Heal him even if he had wanted to. And if one of the hidden sisters had done it, the Seanchan might have figured out what had happened to him, and thus learned for sure that there are still at least one Aes Sedai left in the city, which would have made the escape that much harder.

 

And if RJ had moved Mat's storyline forward a couple of months just to have him in the book, he would have been out of synch with the rest of the characters, and that would have meant less Mat-time somewhere else, so others could catch up.

I think you missed my point. The idea isn't to have Mat get healed from his injury quickly, but for him to never get the injury in the first place.

[Draven]

The Whitecloaks would also have to go if I were to write it -- I don't see the significance of these idiots besides being a minor irritation.

 

And as for the record, misogynism doesn't apply when you dislike "FANTASY" women, so calling me a woman-hater is both ungrounded and impulsive. Besides, it's not my fault if RJ is really quite gifted at creating "imaginary" b*tches who always get what they want. Most times, it appears as if the story is written by a vindictive feminist who think all men are pigs or something -- and deserve to be treated as such. I believe the thread "Who Would You Slap" is a testament to that. It had to be said. Carry on.

[Varcolac]

The women over men issue began after (or during) the breaking. How did you expect the women to feel? Chummy with men, what with the wars and upheaval? No, they were pissed, and that has slowly settled into mild superiority. Remove that and it just makes the breaking seem to have no social consequences, which would be unrealistic.

 

Plus no Red Ajah, no Cadsuane, and other plot points undone as well, including the kidnapping of Rand. A complete rewrite featuring just the men (or less of the women) wouldn't be worth it in my opinion (maybe less of SOME of the women... *Cough* Faile *Cough, cough*)

[Viezael]

I know many people disagree with me, but I would do away completely with the character Min. I don't like her. At first she was cool and different--but now she has no point.

Here (in my opinion) are what she's done lately:

1. called Rand a woolheaded sheepherder and gone against everything he's said

2. slept with Rand all the time(why did Elayne get pregnant and her not? Life's not fair.)

3. Told fortunes that can't be changed, so don't really do any good.

4. Thrown knives at things attacking Rand. (Like that does any good against most of his enemies...)

5. Been annoying.

 

Elayne is doing something useful, so is Aviendha. I hate the fact that they ALL love Rand, but doing away with Min would partly solve the problem. :) I mean--if a character was going to get 3 women you'd think it'd be Mat... haha

[Zardi]

Bah. I have to defend Min now. :P

 

1. Min has been nothing but supportive of Rand since they've been together, much more so than Elayne or Avienda. When Min expresses disagreement with him or calls him a woolhead, it's because he's about to do something stupid that might result in his death. That's a far cry from what you're suggesting. If someone you love is about to do something idiotic, don't you tell them so? Min is Elayne's opposite in this regard, because Elayne talks badly about Rand for things like keeping her country whole and "getting her pregnant" (because, of course, he instigated the entire thing).

 

Many times in the latter books (since the bonding) Rand thinks about how much love and confidence he feels coming from Min. How does that fit in with what you describe?

 

2. Min's sleeping with Rand is, in my opinion, part of what's keeping him human. The prophecies say to "pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love." Min's constant presence has ensured that Rand has not entirely forgotten love. Without Min, the girls would never have bonded Rand, and Rand would not know that Elayne and Aviendha actually do love him. He may well have forgotten love long ago, were that the case.

 

Elayne got pregnant because that's what can happen when two people boink and don't use contraception. In one of Elayne's more honest moments, she almost admits to herself that her pregnancy is her own fault, since she did not drink the contraceptive tea. Why didn't Min get pregnant? It could be that she has one of many medical conditions that will make it hard or impossible for her to conceive. Maybe it's just bad (good?) luck. Maybe she's been drinking contraceptive tea.

 

3. Thanks to Min's viewings, Rand has some trust for Cadsuane, who (as much as I don't like her) has saved Rand many times: after Fain attacked him (her feeble healing attempt kept him alive long enough for one of the other AS to have a go), at the Cleansing, rescuing him from Far Madding prison, etc. Thanks to Min's viewings, Rand knows that he has five Aes Sedai "in the palm of his hand," whom he knows he can trust to help him out. Thanks to Min's viewings, Rand and Perrin both know that if Perrin doesn't stay close by it could cost Rand his life (it isn't Min's fault that they don't listen). Thanks to Min's viewings, Siuan and Gareth know that if they don't stay close to each other, they'll both die. And those are just a few examples. Even the ones that don't indicate something specific can give the characters (and readers) clues for what they need to watch out for or prepare for.

 

4. Give her a break. She's a miner's daughter, not a warrior or a channeler. Even one of the Forsaken could be distracted, injured, or killed by a knife.

 

5. That's just your opinion, I guess, and I doubt I can change it. But, out of curiosity, what has she done that you consider annoying?

 

Elayne has spent the last few books trying to get her throne back, which certainly could be helpful at Tarmon Gaidon, but I wouldn't say it's more important than keeping Rand human (something the prophecies say needs to happen). What has Aviendha done since the Bowl of Winds? Take baths with Elayne?

 

I don't hate any of Rand's girls, but I think that Min is the best match for him because she's loving and supportive, yet is willing to tell him when he's acting like an idiot.

[Gentled Ben]

Zardi asked: "What has Aviendha done since the Bowl of Winds? Take baths with Elayne?"

 

First off, OUCH! I like Aviendha the best of the three! Second, was it before or after the Bowl of the Winds that she explained to Elayne that she had toh to Mat? I hope it was after. Otherwise, you're right, and that's a double ouch, I guess.

[Zardi]

I do like Aviendha, but her hanging around Elayne hasn't been all that useful as far as I remember. It's good of her to support her newly bonded sister...I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that...but I just think it's far less important than Min's support of Rand.

[Gentled Ben]

I think that encouraging Elayne to treat Mat more honorably was useful. I had a real strong dislike for Elayne through most of the series, and a lot of it centered on the way she behaved toward him. Aviendha spurred some growth in Elayne, and I think that might have paid some dividends in her interactions with Catalyn and some of the others with whom she's had to recently put up with (windfinders, et al).

 

Min has clearly done the most for Rand, I wouldn't argue that with you, but I felt like you were taking an unnecessary shot at Aviendha, so I had her back.