Alternate ending to Lord of Chaos.

[GaseousAnomaly]

Spoilers bellow.

 

Hello everyone this is my first post here. I am now at book 8 and I have enjoyed the series despite some well knows flaws. I hope it wont appear pretentious but I'm going to start with an alternate twist for a plot line. I dont know anyone who read these books and I need to share this. So here goes.

 

The plot line where Rand get kidnapped by the embassy from the White Tower caused me so much rage and anger by the way he was treated that I was left wanting more from that plot line. When I put down the book an alternate scenario surged in my head. A way that was much more satisfying to me and more compatible with the emotions I felt. I wish something similar to this would have happened.

 

• Everything plays the same way up to the end of the battle including the rebel Aes Sedai swearing fealty.
  
• Out of the Aes Sedai that tortured him Rand stills those who took to much pleasure in it.(two or three)
  
• They return to Caemlyn with the prisoners.
  
• Rand sends a volunteer Asha'man with a proclamation, the stilled Aes Sedai and one of the Tower’s Aes Sedai back to the White Tower. They make a gateway right to the Hall of the Tower.
  

With the stilled Aes Sedai prostrating around him the Asha’man reads the proclamation. After each point the other Aes Sedai that was sent with the group confirms the veracity by stating “He speaks the truth”

• N days ago an embassy from the white tower abused my hospitality and trust. Through subterfuge and deception they kidnapped me. [gasps]
  
• Caged in a box I was tortured daily by Aes Sedai Following Elaida’s instructions. [gasps and outrage]
  
• After 15 days I broke the shield and in the process stilled the Aes Sedai sheelding me. (No need to explain the circumstances, let them sweat a little.)[gasps!!]
  
• Those who took to much pleasure in torturing me were stilled.[gasps!!]
  
• In the meantime all the Aes Sedai from the “rebel” embassy have sworn fealty to the Dragon Reborn.[gasps!!!!!]
  
• The White Tower has made it’s position clear. Any shred of trust I had towards Aes Sedai has been obliterated. You stand against the Dragon Reborn. [Consternation]
  
• Swear fealty. If my Asha’man is not back with confirmation of your acceptance within 12 hours I will be forced to resolve the matter. I will not let you stand with the Dark one against me at Tarmon Gai'don.[Fainting all over the place] (It doesnt matter if he believes this or not. Just as long as they believe it’s what he thinks.)
  

 

What happens after that? who knows....

 

Actually there is an other way this could play out but it’s almost like cheating so I didnt include it in the scenario I just posted.

Rand + Foxhead medallion = mind blown. Rand actually delivers the message him self, feels the medallion going cold and sees the Aes Sedai in the Hall go white. But Rand with the medallion would probably remove too much tension and ruin the books. But Rand wearing the medallion makes so much sense. From the moment Elayne saw it, getting Mat to hand it over to Rand should have been her first and only priority.

 

Well that's it.

[Jon Paul]

Oh I would have loved that as well. It would have been amazing. I would probably have done my self an injury just jumping about in glee. However, it's not the way it is meant to happen. There has to be mutual cooperation. Rand Sedai cannot force their hand, they have to see it for themselves. Otherwise they will never truly change.

[GaseousAnomaly]

Oh I would have loved that as well. It would have been amazing. I would probably have done my self an injury just jumping about in glee. However, it's not the way it is meant to happen. There has to be mutual cooperation. Rand Sedai cannot force their hand, they have to see it for themselves. Otherwise they will never truly change.

Yeah. That last bullet point about them swearing fealty I'm not totally sold on but it just feels like an opportunity that cant be missed. You cant give Aes Sedai the opportunity to wiggle out if you've destabilized and in a position of weakness. Something that would go more along the lines of what you said would replace the last bullet point with something like this.

• You need to stand by my side against the Dark one at Tarmon Gai'don. Reconsider your position. I will send someone to get your response in two days.
  

 

Of course all of what I posted would have changed quite a bit of the story but I'm not sure that tying up a few plots would have been a bad idea.

[Darth Krewl]

I felt the exact same way after all that business (especially since I suffer from claustrophobia myself, meaning that I could relate to Rand's despair and panic 100%) and I also feel that a little retribution, at least, was in order.

 

I had even taken it further myself, seeing as how this outraging action (sequestering and causing injury to the leader of a certain organization) constituted an open act of war against the Black Tower. For this reason, I wanted Rand to order his Asha'man to raze the White Tower to the ground, though I did understand the need for the "girls playing at being Aes Sedai" during the Last Battle.

 

So, in the end I came to the same conclusion as you: send them an ultimatum and I found it extremely disappointing to see that Rand would not only not do it but would be so tolerant when Cadsuane showed up. I just hadn't come up with as good an idea as you. Excellent thinking, IMO.

[dovien]

Nice alternative, I'm impressed.

[Mr Ares]

• The White Tower has made it’s position clear. Any shred of trust I had towards Aes Sedai has been obliterated. You stand against the Dragon Reborn. [Consternation]
  
• Swear fealty. If my Asha’man is not back with confirmation of your acceptance within 12 hours I will be forced to resolve the matter. I will not let you stand with the Dark one against me at Tarmon Gai'don. (It doesnt matter if he believes this or not. Just as long as they believe it’s what he thinks.)
  

What happens after that? who knows....

Well, you could end up making things worse. Setting up a war between AS and Asha'man? Surely that plays right into Shai'tan's hands? An ultimatum like that might end up stiffening their resolve against you.

 

Actually there is an other way this could play out but it’s almost like cheating so I didnt include it in the scenario I just posted.

Rand + Foxhead medallion = mind blown. Rand actually delivers the message him self, feels the medallion going cold and sees the Aes Sedai in the Hall go white. But Rand with the medallion would probably remove too much tension and ruin the books. But Rand wearing the medallion makes so much sense. From the moment Elayne saw it, getting Mat to hand it over to Rand should have been her first and only priority.

Why? He's a channeler, and quite capable of protecting himself against other channelers, while the foxhead is the only protection Mat has.

 

This would indeed have changed the story quite a bit, and it might well have wrapped some things up, but it would also create new plotlines.

[GaseousAnomaly]

Well, you could end up making things worse. Setting up a war between AS and Asha'man? Surely that plays right into Shai'tan's hands? An ultimatum like that might end up stiffening their resolve against you.

It's my understanding that the Aes Sedai want to have control over him to protect the word and make sure he'll be there for the last battle(Might change in later books but I go with what was known at the time). I dont think they'd really risk a fight against him. The embassy from the rebel Aes Sedai swore fealty but only because they had no other viable alternatives. Maybe they wont want to swear fealty but if they want to negotiate something at this point they will pretty much have to accept any terms short of swearing fealty. Humbling them a little sounds like a good idea. Besides siding with you is not really incompatible with what I understand as being their goal at this point. Plus you just drove a blow to the White Tower Amyrlin Seat something that could help reunite the Aes Sedai.

In the end...would they really consider facing the Dragon, his army, his Asha'man and the rebel Aes Sedai?

 

Why? He's a channeler, and quite capable of protecting himself against other channelers, while the foxhead is the only protection Mat has.

Rand is the one that you want alive at Tarmon Gai'don. He's the one that fought multiple forsaken and has been targeted by Aes Sedai. At least this way he'd be immune to direct attacks from the power. What would clinch the deal for me is if the wearer can be shielded. If not then Rand needs that medallion so he cant be trapped by anyone using the power again. Anyway if I had the medallion I'd definitely consider giving it to the dragon. If he dies it's all over, if I die...there's no prophecy that says I need to be there.

 

Thx for the input.

[Taura-Tierno]

Rand sends a volunteer Asha'man with a proclamation, the stilled Aes Sedai and one of the Tower’s Aes Sedai back to the White Tower. They make a gateway right to the Hall of the Tower

 

I think the Tower would have seen that as extremely offensive, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd have gentled the poor man on the spot in the Hall, out of pure indignation. And called it self-defense. Traveling right into the Hall could easily be construed as an act of war, or close enough.

[GaseousAnomaly]

Rand sends a volunteer Asha'man with a proclamation, the stilled Aes Sedai and one of the Tower’s Aes Sedai back to the White Tower. They make a gateway right to the Hall of the Tower

 

I think the Tower would have seen that as extremely offensive, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd have gentled the poor man on the spot in the Hall, out of pure indignation. And called it self-defense. Traveling right into the Hall could easily be construed as an act of war, or close enough.

Those insidious Aes Sedai have corrupted you.

"something extremely offensive that could be construed an act of war" How do you qualify walking in a palace, kidnapping your host and torturing him endlessly?

 

If it was done to me this would have been an act of war. They could count them selves lucky it was only one Asha'man with a message and not an army of them.

[Darth Krewl]

Rand sends a volunteer Asha'man with a proclamation, the stilled Aes Sedai and one of the Tower’s Aes Sedai back to the White Tower. They make a gateway right to the Hall of the Tower

 

I think the Tower would have seen that as extremely offensive, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd have gentled the poor man on the spot in the Hall, out of pure indignation. And called it self-defense. Traveling right into the Hall could easily be construed as an act of war, or close enough.

Those insidious Aes Sedai have corrupted you.

"something extremely offensive that could be construed an act of war" How do you qualify walking in a palace, kidnapping your host and torturing him endlessly?

 

If it was done to me this would have been an act of war. They could count them selves lucky it was only one Asha'man with a message and not an army of them.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. Spot on.

[Mr Ares]

Well, you could end up making things worse. Setting up a war between AS and Asha'man? Surely that plays right into Shai'tan's hands? An ultimatum like that might end up stiffening their resolve against you.

It's my understanding that the Aes Sedai want to have control over him to protect the word and make sure he'll be there for the last battle (Might change in later books but I go with what was known at the time). I dont think they'd really risk a fight against him. The embassy from the rebel Aes Sedai swore fealty but only because they had no other viable alternatives. Maybe they wont want to swear fealty but if they want to negotiate something at this point they will pretty much have to accept any terms short of swearing fealty. Humbling them a little sounds like a good idea. Besides siding with you is not really incompatible with what I understand as being their goal at this point. Plus you just drove a blow to the White Tower Amyrlin Seat something that could help reunite the Aes Sedai.

In the end...would they really consider facing the Dragon, his army, his Asha'man and the rebel Aes Sedai?

The rebels declared war on Elaida, but not on the WT as a whole, so where they would stand in any conflict between Rand and the Tower is up in the air. After all, Rand razing the WT and humbling the AS is the last thing they want. And bear in mind Rand left Caemlyn due to the attempt by the Rebel embassy to ignore the restrictions he'd put in place and strongarm him. As you say, this could help reunite the AS - against Rand. Remember, these women have pulled strings on rulers for thousands of years, and they are not going to let that go lightly. They want to control the Dragon, and if they can't do that covertly, they will try and find another way. By hook or by crook, they need to make sure the DR isn't running around willy-nilly, cocking things up. They want him on a short leash, so they can wheel him out every now and then to fulfill prophecies. Idiotic, yes, but no-one ever accused Elaida of being a genius, did they? So Rand's envoy showing up, provoking them in the way you suggest, coud lead to further breakdown in Dragon/Tower relations - they might decide that besting him in a war is the only way to control him. And remember that Elaida did attack the BT - she vastly underestimated how big it was, and how well trained the men there were, and so thought 50 sisters would be more than enough. They weren't.

 

Why? He's a channeler, and quite capable of protecting himself against other channelers, while the foxhead is the only protection Mat has.

Rand is the one that you want alive at Tarmon Gai'don. He's the one that fought multiple forsaken and has been targeted by Aes Sedai. At least this way he'd be immune to direct attacks from the power. What would clinch the deal for me is if the wearer can be shielded. If not then Rand needs that medallion so he cant be trapped by anyone using the power again. Anyway if I had the medallion I'd definitely consider giving it to the dragon. If he dies it's all over, if I die...there's no prophecy that says I need to be there.

 

Thx for the input.

Rand, while vital for the Last Battle, is not the only person who is crucial. Rand, Perrin and Mat were referred to as a tripod - cut off one leg, and the whole thing falls. There might not be a prophecy saying you need to be there, but Mat is rather essential to the Light's efforts. And, as I say, Rand can channel and is backed many more channelers, while Mat has the Band, the ashandarei, and the foxhead. Which do you think will save his life should Demandred or one of the others come knocking?

 

 

Rand sends a volunteer Asha'man with a proclamation, the stilled Aes Sedai and one of the Tower’s Aes Sedai back to the White Tower. They make a gateway right to the Hall of the Tower

 

I think the Tower would have seen that as extremely offensive, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd have gentled the poor man on the spot in the Hall, out of pure indignation. And called it self-defense. Traveling right into the Hall could easily be construed as an act of war, or close enough.

Indeed. While what was done to Rand could very easily be seen as an act of war itself, what is needed is reconciliation between the forces of the Light - them being divided only benefits the Shadow. Whatever short term satisfaction might come from seeing Rand do something like this, I can't help but feel that the negatives would outweigh the positives.

[Jblaylock]

I think that if Rand wore the medallion and the Aes'Sedai knew that he was "immune" to their channelling, they would panic -- realizing that they lost the one means of control (at least, as they believed) they potentialy had over him -- and feel the need to put down this uncontrollable threat.

 

The medallion would not prevent them from pooling their resources, their eyes and ears, their warders, and all their ability to intimidate commoners. They could hire a thousand assasins with crossbows to hide in several buildings in several cities, intimidate the homeowners to stay quite, as well as the "authorities", and station themselves throughout those cities too. They can't channel at Rand, but they can pick things up to throw at him. Plus their warders could storm him. I doubt Rand could defend against a hundred warders, plus a hundred stones being thrown at him with the OP, plus a hundred crossbow bolts being fired at him from windows all around. Especialy if it caught him off guard.

 

They could take him down. And if he wore that medallion, I believe they would.

[Darth Krewl]

I think that if Rand wore the medallion and the Aes'Sedai knew that he was "immune" to their channelling, they would panic -- realizing that they lost the one means of control (at least, as they believed) they potentialy had over him -- and feel the need to put down this uncontrollable threat.

 

They could take him down. And if he wore that medallion, I believe they would.

 

I can see AS panicking and doing something rash and senseless like this, too. But, IMO, that would play right into the hands of the Shadow. Besides, taking Rand's Ta'veren nature into consideration, I'm sure something would go awfully wrong for the AS and he would somehow make it out of the traps laid out for him.

[GaseousAnomaly]

The rebels declared war on Elaida, but not on the WT as a whole, so where they would stand in any conflict between Rand and the Tower is up in the air. After all, Rand razing the WT and humbling the AS is the last thing they want. And bear in mind Rand left Caemlyn due to the attempt by the Rebel embassy to ignore the restrictions he'd put in place and strongarm him. As you say, this could help reunite the AS - against Rand. Remember, these women have pulled strings on rulers for thousands of years, and they are not going to let that go lightly. They want to control the Dragon, and if they can't do that covertly, they will try and find another way. By hook or by crook, they need to make sure the DR isn't running around willy-nilly, cocking things up. They want him on a short leash, so they can wheel him out every now and then to fulfill prophecies. Idiotic, yes, but no-one ever accused Elaida of being a genius, did they? So Rand's envoy showing up, provoking them in the way you suggest, coud lead to further breakdown in Dragon/Tower relations - they might decide that besting him in a war is the only way to control him. And remember that Elaida did attack the BT - she vastly underestimated how big it was, and how well trained the men there were, and so thought 50 sisters would be more than enough. They weren't.

You assume it would get to a conflict. To me it's a calculated roll of the dice.

I'll talk here as if I was rand and assume a few things that might be true or not.

-I assume Elaida's control of the tower is not 100% solid.

-I assume the decision to abduct and toture me is not known and agreed too by every Aes Sadai in the tower.

-I dot not assume the rebels would follow me. What's important here is that 9 swore fealty and that's all the Tower will know. I did not specify the rest of the rebels would or have followed in their footsteps. That's left to the Tower's imagination. That's why speed is important. I cant give them time to find out what the rebels would do. But at this point the tower should fear the worst.

-I am gambling that this blunder will shake Elaida's authority. Make the Tower realize that her way is not the right way.

-I assume they will want to reach a compromise. That's pretty much what I'm hopping for.

 

 

 

 

Rand, while vital for the Last Battle, is not the only person who is crucial. Rand, Perrin and Mat were referred to as a tripod - cut off one leg, and the whole thing falls. There might not be a prophecy saying you need to be there, but Mat is rather essential to the Light's efforts. And, as I say, Rand can channel and is backed many more channelers, while Mat has the Band, the ashandarei, and the foxhead. Which do you think will save his life should Demandred or one of the others come knocking?

But not knowing you are in a book and knowing Rand us the key giving him my medallion is a self sacrifice I might be ready to do. What if he dies because I refused to hand it over? It's a heavy burden.

 

Indeed. While what was done to Rand could very easily be seen as an act of war itself, what is needed is reconciliation between the forces of the Light - them being divided only benefits the Shadow. Whatever short term satisfaction might come from seeing Rand do something like this, I can't help but feel that the negatives would outweigh the positives.

What would the Tower need to do for you to consider their action an act of war? Think as Rand, not the tower.

 

I'm happy this sparked a bit of a debate.

[mikedh]

I think that if Rand wore the medallion and the Aes'Sedai knew that he was "immune" to their channelling, they would panic -- realizing that they lost the one means of control (at least, as they believed) they potentialy had over him -- and feel the need to put down this uncontrollable threat.

 

The medallion would not prevent them from pooling their resources, their eyes and ears, their warders, and all their ability to intimidate commoners. They could hire a thousand assasins with crossbows to hide in several buildings in several cities, intimidate the homeowners to stay quite, as well as the "authorities", and station themselves throughout those cities too. They can't channel at Rand, but they can pick things up to throw at him. Plus their warders could storm him. I doubt Rand could defend against a hundred warders, plus a hundred stones being thrown at him with the OP, plus a hundred crossbow bolts being fired at him from windows all around. Especialy if it caught him off guard.

 

They could take him down. And if he wore that medallion, I believe they would.

 

Aes Sedai cooperating... LOL

[Mr Ares]

The rebels declared war on Elaida, but not on the WT as a whole, so where they would stand in any conflict between Rand and the Tower is up in the air. After all, Rand razing the WT and humbling the AS is the last thing they want. And bear in mind Rand left Caemlyn due to the attempt by the Rebel embassy to ignore the restrictions he'd put in place and strongarm him. As you say, this could help reunite the AS - against Rand. Remember, these women have pulled strings on rulers for thousands of years, and they are not going to let that go lightly. They want to control the Dragon, and if they can't do that covertly, they will try and find another way. By hook or by crook, they need to make sure the DR isn't running around willy-nilly, cocking things up. They want him on a short leash, so they can wheel him out every now and then to fulfill prophecies. Idiotic, yes, but no-one ever accused Elaida of being a genius, did they? So Rand's envoy showing up, provoking them in the way you suggest, coud lead to further breakdown in Dragon/Tower relations - they might decide that besting him in a war is the only way to control him. And remember that Elaida did attack the BT - she vastly underestimated how big it was, and how well trained the men there were, and so thought 50 sisters would be more than enough. They weren't.

You assume it would get to a conflict. To me it's a calculated roll of the dice.

I'll talk here as if I was rand and assume a few things that might be true or not.

-I assume Elaida's control of the tower is not 100% solid.

-I assume the decision to abduct and toture me is not known and agreed too by every Aes Sadai in the tower.

-I dot not assume the rebels would follow me. What's important here is that 9 swore fealty and that's all the Tower will know. I did not specify the rest of the rebels would or have followed in their footsteps. That's left to the Tower's imagination. That's why speed is important. I cant give them time to find out what the rebels would do. But at this point the tower should fear the worst.

-I am gambling that this blunder will shake Elaida's authority. Make the Tower realize that her way is not the right way.

-I assume they will want to reach a compromise. That's pretty much what I'm hopping for.

Problem is, this might unify people behind Elaida, and reduce the chances of a compromise. Your suggested course of action is a pretty aggressive one, and they won't like Rand doing it. Elaida was pretty stable as Amyrlin - she'd just been elected, and the Tower was split. No-one wanted to damage things further by rocking the boat. Elaida's blunders and Alviarin's manipulations put the Ajahs at one anothers throats and weakened her grip on power. Stilling AS will not go down well with the Hall, whether or not they approve of Elaida's actions. "The White Tower has made it’s position clear. Any shred of trust I had towards Aes Sedai has been obliterated. You stand against the Dragon Reborn." That's Rand (in your opening post) stating his opposition to all of them, not just to Elaida and those who follow her. A more moderate course of action, such as sending an envoy to discuss the possibility of a meeting between Rand and Elaida, that would be a more palatable option. If Elaida refused, the Hall wouldn't be too happy. Rand's envoy saying "you are all enemies of the Dragon Reborn" is the sort of thing that is likely to drive many of them into the belief that Rand is a dangerous madman who needs to be controlled. Unfortunately, any course of action which makes reconciliation likely without further conflict is one that is unlikely to provide the immediate satisfaction of Rand letting the WT know just how annoyed he is. Of course, a possibility that does occur is that Rand could contact the Hall, but not the Amyrlin. Any negotiations of his go through them, not Elaida. A blow to her personally, but it lessens the chances of a DR/WT war.

 

 

Rand, while vital for the Last Battle, is not the only person who is crucial. Rand, Perrin and Mat were referred to as a tripod - cut off one leg, and the whole thing falls. There might not be a prophecy saying you need to be there, but Mat is rather essential to the Light's efforts. And, as I say, Rand can channel and is backed many more channelers, while Mat has the Band, the ashandarei, and the foxhead. Which do you think will save his life should Demandred or one of the others come knocking?

But not knowing you are in a book and knowing Rand us the key giving him my medallion is a self sacrifice I might be ready to do. What if he dies because I refused to hand it over? It's a heavy burden.

On the other hand, what if you died because you gave it over? When you'd paid such a high price to get it, and when you were also key to victory?

 

Indeed. While what was done to Rand could very easily be seen as an act of war itself, what is needed is reconciliation between the forces of the Light - them being divided only benefits the Shadow. Whatever short term satisfaction might come from seeing Rand do something like this, I can't help but feel that the negatives would outweigh the positives.

What would the Tower need to do for you to consider their action an act of war? Think as Rand, not the tower.

 

I'm happy this sparked a bit of a debate.

Indeed. A bit of debate makes things more interesting. As for the Tower, they would need to demonstrate that they were opposed to my efforts to unify the world before TG, and that they couldn't be ignored. As it is, Rand pretty much ignored the Tower, and sent an Asha'man to the Rebels in KoD. Rand has a lot to be getting on with. Sammael is in Illian, the Seanchan are back, Arad Doman is in chaos, saidin is still tainted. He doesn't need to add Tar Valon to his problems. If they are on your side, all well and good. If they are against you, but can be ignored, then ignore them. If they cannot be ignored, then what is the most efficient way to bring them on side? Being seen as an insane tyrant won't help your cause. Being seen as a resonable person, one who is willing to listen to good counsel, negotiate, one who respects the Hall and the Tower, that might. To convince me, as Rand, that the best course of action is war with the WT would take a lot. Probably them formally declaring war on me would do it.

[GaseousAnomaly]

Problem is, this might unify people behind Elaida, and reduce the chances of a compromise. Your suggested course of action is a pretty aggressive one, and they won't like Rand doing it. Elaida was pretty stable as Amyrlin - she'd just been elected, and the Tower was split. No-one wanted to damage things further by rocking the boat. Elaida's blunders and Alviarin's manipulations put the Ajahs at one anothers throats and weakened her grip on power. Stilling AS will not go down well with the Hall, whether or not they approve of Elaida's actions. "The White Tower has made it’s position clear. Any shred of trust I had towards Aes Sedai has been obliterated. You stand against the Dragon Reborn." That's Rand (in your opening post) stating his opposition to all of them, not just to Elaida and those who follow her. A more moderate course of action, such as sending an envoy to discuss the possibility of a meeting between Rand and Elaida, that would be a more palatable option. If Elaida refused, the Hall wouldn't be too happy. Rand's envoy saying "you are all enemies of the Dragon Reborn" is the sort of thing that is likely to drive many of them into the belief that Rand is a dangerous madman who needs to be controlled. Unfortunately, any course of action which makes reconciliation likely without further conflict is one that is unlikely to provide the immediate satisfaction of Rand letting the WT know just how annoyed he is. Of course, a possibility that does occur is that Rand could contact the Hall, but not the Amyrlin. Any negotiations of his go through them, not Elaida. A blow to her personally, but it lessens the chances of a DR/WT war.

 

 

On the other hand, what if you died because you gave it over? When you'd paid such a high price to get it, and when you were also key to victory?

 

Indeed. A bit of debate makes things more interesting. As for the Tower, they would need to demonstrate that they were opposed to my efforts to unify the world before TG, and that they couldn't be ignored. As it is, Rand pretty much ignored the Tower, and sent an Asha'man to the Rebels in KoD. Rand has a lot to be getting on with. Sammael is in Illian, the Seanchan are back, Arad Doman is in chaos, saidin is still tainted. He doesn't need to add Tar Valon to his problems. If they are on your side, all well and good. If they are against you, but can be ignored, then ignore them. If they cannot be ignored, then what is the most efficient way to bring them on side? Being seen as an insane tyrant won't help your cause. Being seen as a resonable person, one who is willing to listen to good counsel, negotiate, one who respects the Hall and the Tower, that might. To convince me, as Rand, that the best course of action is war with the WT would take a lot. Probably them formally declaring war on me would do it.

I guess we definitely disagree at a fundamental level and possibly misunderstand some of our positions.

-I do not want to start a war with them.

-I think the do not want to start an open war with the Dragon.

-I am convinced a bit of their own medicine is in order and that speed is of the essence.

-I consider it a calculated risk. A bit of the role of the dice.

-I go with the information available at the time. Not what was found out later on.

 

If a rebel Aes Sedai counseled me with the opinions you raised I could change the last part of the message I sent them to something like

-I urge you to reconsider your position. Lets start this over. In 12 hours an other gate will be open at this very spot. I will give you the opportunity to send a delegation of 3, no more. Make it count.

 

What I expect in both cases would be an initial message that I have misunderstood their intentions. But i dont like giving them an inch because I know they will take a mile. That's why I want them to think that whatever compromise is reached is a gain for them and the only way i can do that and still like the deal is to put them at a huge disadvantage initially. If that all makes any sense.

[Mr Ares]

There are, however, problems with your approach. Just because you don't want to start a war, doesn't mean you won't end up provoking one due to taking a hostile opening position. You don't want to give them an inch, for fear they'll take a mile, but likewise they won't want to give you an inch either. And an animal is often at its most dangerous when backed into a corner - your initial message, forcing them into a position of us versus them, backs them into a corner. You're right that it's a roll of the dice - the principle difference in our views, I'd say, is that you think it will pay off, and I don't, or at least don't think it's worth the risk. The harder you make things for them, the more likely they are to buck against it. By giving them a taste of their own medicine, you hope it will convince them to back down, when in actuality it might simply convince them to respond in kind. Tit for tat, escalation, until things reach boiling point or someone decides to break the cycle.