Why don't the Asha'men test and Create their own Aes 'Sedai

[CrazyMike]

Why don't the Asha'men test and Create their own Aes 'Sedai ,,, they have Aes Sedai that they have complete control over and those same women could easily test other women ,,, once the test is done and they teach those same women to submit to the Power of the True Source the Asha'men need only give em the KISS and they will also be the obedient servants of the Ash'men ...

 

This would not be disobediant to RAND's order not to Bond any more Aes'Sedai , because technicaly speaking the new women would not be Aes'Sedai.

[Guest Majsju]

That sounds like something a forsaken might do, rather than the person who's supposed to be the good guy...

 

Slavery is not a nice thing, not even in a fictional context.

[maximus34]

or maybe something that a forsaken would order there follwers in the black tower to do... muuaaahaha. food for thought

[Guest Majsju]

Considering that all bonded Aes Sedai are with Asha'man loyal to Rand, not Taim, that is irrelevant.

[Luckers]

I disagree with your suggestion that they bond these women--Maj is right on that, though it does occur to me to wonder why the Black Tower has restricted itself to men only. Untrained female channelers represent a massive untapped force in Randland, and if the Black Tower could get men to agree to channel tainted saidin, then surely there would be a bunch of women who would give anything to learn to channel, but couldn't have because of Aes Sedai tradition--this would have grown harder when Egwene removed the age limit, but i imagine there still would have been a bunch of women, especially if the effects of the oath rod were spread about.

 

That being said i imagine it never occured to Rand or any other Randland born person... the propaganda machine of the White Tower spun its lies well.

[CrazyMike]

How about if they recruited volunters ,,, and ,,, explained exactly what was going to happen and how it would be ,,, then they could increase the power of an Asha'man/Aes Sedai circle/union and have a few extra circles headed by already bond Aes Sedai ,,, of course the lure would be to get the training in all the weaves known to the Aes Sedai and to Fight the Shadow and go to Tarmon Gaidon when the time came

[Luckers]

Thats more or less what I suggested... though if you are still suggesting a bond, i dont see why its necessary. If women joined the black tower they'd be just as much Asha'man as the men, and i see no reason for them to be pre-requisitely bonded to the men.

[Trib4l]

Maj, are you including the Reds that are bonded to Taim's elect few in that number?

[Guest Majsju]

They are not yet bonded, and it's not certain whether or not they will be.

 

Also, if a bonding would happen, the reds would hold the bond, not the other way around.

[CrazyMike]

Maj ; why would the Reds held by Taim hold the Bond if an Asha'man Bonded them with a KISS ,,, Logains RED Sister does not hold the Bond between her and Logain, Logain holds the Bond

[Guest Majsju]

Read KOD and see what they ask for, to bond Asha'man as warders, not to be bonded. One of the reasons they ask in the first place is compensation for the sisters who was bonded by Asha'man.

[Kaznen]

I agree with the BT training their own women. Not the forced bonding part, however. I think the Aes Sedai are on the way out the door. When the world realizes how royally the AS have been screwing up, with TG coming up no less, the AS will lose their "politcal capital."

 

Plus, now that there is no more taint the two genders should combine to form an order. But, the AS laws and tradition have been made to rigid to allow a union of equals.

[moroten]

But there dont need to be a change of equals. Male aes sedai have existed before and those were the glory times of the white tower.

 

Thw white tower remember these times and knowing the saidin is clean I doubt they will have problems allowing them to be as equals.

[Guest cwestervelt]

The Black and White Towers should both be done away with. Both entities were founded based on a seperation of the genders. The White Tower because it wasn't safe to include men, the Black because the men were needed and had nowhere to go. Before they can work together in any effective manner they need to clear away the rubble and start over.

[drakhon]

But there dont need to be a change of equals. Male aes sedai have existed before and those were the glory times of the white tower.

 

Thw white tower remember these times and knowing the saidin is clean I doubt they will have problems allowing them to be as equals.

 

The White Tower was founded after the Breaking by female Aes Sedai. It is not the same as the Hall of the Servants that existed in the AoL with male and female Aes Sedai.

 

Much of Tower law is based around an all female organization. Look at the Amyrlin raising ceremony, for instance. Laws can be changed, but "male channelers are bad" has been ingrained into every Aes Sedai since the Breaking and many don't like any men at all.

 

Perhaps the two Towers will merge into one organization, but it wont be as simple as "Hey, Saidin is clean, welcome home guys!" and wont happen before Tarmon Gai'don.

[Guest Majsju]

Perhaps the two Towers will merge into one organization, but it wont be as simple as "Hey, Saidin is clean, welcome home guys!" and wont happen before Tarmon Gai'don.

 

The first steps has already been taken. Look at the attitude between some of the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man they're bonded to. Now they don't work together because they have to, but because they want to. Rand's offer to let Aes Sedai bond Asha'man as warders will further help with bringing them together.

 

But it will take a long time before it's a functining organisation including both genders.

[drakhon]

The first steps has already been taken. Look at the attitude between some of the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man they're bonded to. Now they don't work together because they have to, but because they want to. Rand's offer to let Aes Sedai bond Asha'man as warders will further help with bringing them together.

 

But it will take a long time before it's a functining organisation including both genders.

 

I agree, I'm just saying that actual and full integration wont be easy and will take quite some time. Right now they're not exactly peers though. The bondee is subservient to the bonder for the most part. There is a long way to go.

 

Most likely it wont be an organization on the scale of White Tower itself until after TG, but I believe it will happen.

[Guest Majsju]

A good basis for cooperation is being created now, with Egwene soon to be Amyrlin of all Aes Sedai, and since she's extremely young, and has spent quite some time being a close friend to a man who can channel, it will be easier for her to accept at least a close relationship with the Asha'man.

 

From the Asha'man, it seems likely they will soon have Logain as leader, and he seems to have changed his attitude towards Aes Sedai a lot. Of course, there are not many reds around, and that particular Ajah might not be his favourite for obvious reasons...

 

I don't think they would openly strive for uniting the two towers. Just get closer to eachother, work a lot together, and the joining will come eventually. If Tar Valon survives TG, there's already a tower in the makings for the Aasha'man to move in, namely Elaida's palace. Which she won't have any use for soon.

[Gentled Ben]

Wow, I really like the idea of the Asha'man moving into Elaida's palace. However, the Reds, Maj, are the most numerous. It's the largest Ajah, and Toveine is Red. Logain bonded her and doesn't seem to be too harsh towards her. Perhaps he's in a forgiving mood since his Healing?

[Guest Majsju]

It's quite a difference between one single sister, who he has bonded, and an entire Ajah.

 

Put Logain in a room together with Elaida, and see how much forgiveness he has in him... :lol:

[Gentled Ben]

That's a good point. Healing notwithstanding, I'm sure he has a bone to pick with the ones that gentled him, although even HE must surely admit that prior to the cleansing, or at the very least, Rand's amnesty, men NEEDED to be gentled. I mean, it's a shame, sure, but it's definitely the lesser of two evils.

 

Toveine isn't the only Red among the sisters sent to destroy the BT though is she? The sisters that beat her after their capture were Reds, weren't they? She's just the only Red that's bonded to Logain, right? Her and Gabrella, who is Brown, isn't she? But surely a force sent to deal with an organization of channeling men would be comprised mainly of Reds, wouldn't it? Is there a breakdown somewhere of who they are and what Ajahs they represent, like there was for Liandrin's 13?

[CrazyMike]

Lets keep in mind that:

(1) Apparently Tarman Gadan is only Months away not years (if even Months away, maybe weeks); and

(2) The Opinions of the General public do not amount to a lot in a peoples desperate struggle to stay alive much less politicaly viable; this is not the time for opinion polls and spin doctors ; in times of desperate hopelessness which are faced by those looking at the eminent invasion of BILLIONS 1,000,000,000 of hungry trolics the leader that acts fast and decisively will be the one to lead the peace afterwards; and

(3)Whatever is going to be done will have to be done by many seperate individuals acting swiftly and decisively in pursuit of their own individual plans, it will not get done by slow lumbering commitees and policy planing boards. Hopefuly the Light will Guide those Heroes to the same conclusions and efforts.

[RobertAlexWillis]

looking at the eminent invasion of BILLIONS 1,000,000,000 of hungry trolics

 

There's no way the Blight can support one billion "trolics". Not even close. I even have doubts about Luckers 5-10 million number, and I guarantee he's thought it out more thoroughly than 99 percent of people here. The infrastructure simply doesn't exist.

[Luckers]

I don't see the two towers joining, and in many ways i think they shouldn't. The White Tower has many, many problems (hierarchy by strength, the oaths, the mysticism, the lies, the deciet) and i think it would be foolish to join into that.

 

An alliance is likely what we are going to see.

[CrazyMike]

Yes there are BILLIONS of TROLICs,,, the Dark has been Breeding them for about 10,000 years ,,, and please try and remember ,,, The Trolics are put into a DEEP HYBERNATION ,,, they don't need to eat, drink or anything