Dark One's will regarding the Dragon Reborn

[dnewhous]

This is my first post here. I've done a search here and on google trying to see if anyone has addressed my question to my satisfaction, but they have not. I have read 1.5 books of the series. I had known of it for some time and when I got snowed in at an airport last Christmas I picked up The Gathering Storm. I got halfway though, and recently I read Eye of the World.

 

The central thing that I do not understand is why the Dark One wants Rand to live. That the Dark One wants to turn Rand to the dark side is not an answer. Rand has been built up as the only one who can stop the Dark One when the seals to his prison inevitably fail. Given this, killing Rand, which would be much easier than turning him, is the only smart thing to do. Given that your objective is to destroy Creation, you don't get any bonus points for turning the Dragon Reborn to the dark side and then destroying Creation. Unless our existence is like some sort of video game to the Gods. But I digress.

 

I think the only answer to all of this is, however much damage the Dark One does once the seals fail, he can't destroy Creation unless the Dragon Reborn turns to the dark side. But I don't know enough of the story to know if there's an textual backing for that hypothesis.

[dovien]

Well the Dark One has never yet managed to destroy creation so winning Rand to his side as a tool to use in the future is not a worthless goal at all. Another reason for keeping Rand alive is that Rand naturally increases entropy which is the antithesis of the order of the pattern and therefore strengthens the Dark One's position by weakening the prison, allowing the Dark One to touch the world.

That being said, your hypothesis is not without virtue. It may well be that the Dragon is the key to making or breaking the world (so to speak). There is circumstantial evidence in the books which supports this view but I don't think there's anything concrete which confirms or denies the view.

 

Also; welcome to Dragonmount :)

[Loophole]

The DO has forever, he can wait for the next turning, who knows maybe this is not the first pattern he is destroying and he gets bonus points for style

 

I am however of the opinion that it is Rands taveran nature that stops him even trying. None of the forsaken can kill him untill the apointed time because the pattern keeps him alive, twisting chance and forcing certain events. If the DO can turn him before the final battle, all the better.

 

Edit: i used to be partial to what you said, the DO can't destroy the pattern without dark rand, but if rand goes into the last battle solidly on the good side, it would destroy all tension, since the DO at that point couldn't win truly.

[Agitel]

Flip through the prologue of The Path of Daggers. The last segment during the prologue is Moridin's, and in it he ponders the game of sha'rah. Give that a quick read. The situation is pretty similar to that. Just because Rand is trying to save the world doesn't mean he can't be manipulated. The DO was driving him to madness, to isolation, to despair, and wanted Rand himself to end it all, granting the DO's victory. Think of how close Rand came to destroying everything at the end of TGS. That was the DO's goal.

 

When all direct confrontations against such a strong ta'veren fail, when your best soldiers fall to the luck of a poorly trained boy, you kind of need to approach the situation from a different direction.

 

I think this implies that, in general, victory for the Light, or at least a stalemate where the Pattern continues to exist, IS possible without the Dragon, or that sometimes the Dragon can even be detrimental to the world if properly manipulated and that things would be better off without him if things go too badly. Perhaps things are a little more dire in this particular Age. Perhaps not. I don't know.

[dnewhous]

When all direct confrontations against such a strong ta'veren fail, when your best soldiers fall to the luck of a poorly trained boy, you kind of need to approach the situation from a different direction.

 

But it seams they fail precisely because they are trying to capture Rand rather than kill him.

[Byzantine279]

Read the rest of the story, it should explain it more. But the question you are asking is one that has been asked but never fully answered, the events in The Gathering Storm actually seemed to bolster the theory that he NEEDS the dragon to help him escape, but we cannot be certain.

 

No one is entirely certain what would happen if Rand just up and said "Screw this" and walked off, never to try to stop the Dark One, but everything seems to suggest Shai'tan would NOT win if he did that, but he would not lose either.

[Agitel]

When all direct confrontations against such a strong ta'veren fail, when your best soldiers fall to the luck of a poorly trained boy, you kind of need to approach the situation from a different direction.

 

But it seams they fail precisely because they are trying to capture Rand rather than kill him.

 

 

They're not really trying to capture him, they're trying to create chaos and drive him mad and to despair. He's allowed to be free. Or at least, that's what the DO wants. Some of the Forsaken don't understand that per se.

[dnewhous]

The flip side of why the Dark One wants Rand alive is, if Rand's life is necessary to break the seals, why did the Wheel bring him back to life?

 

The easy answer is because the Seanchans are coming to kick everyone's ass and enslave the Aes Sedai.

[Ozzie_aiel]

I always believed it was the whole "Lets the Lord of Chaos rule" thing. There ain't no-one creating more chaos in the world than Rand right now

[dnewhous]

Didn't Rand get a peace with the Seanchans?

[Mr Ares]

Didn't Rand get a peace with the Seanchans?

No. He tried and failed. The Seanchan are of the opinion that Rand should kneel to them (there were adjustments amde to their Prophecies), but when they met he was somewhat crazy. They weren't interested in making peace with a dangerous madman.

 

As for the topic at hand, the Sha'rah game in the PoD prologue serves as a metaphor for the conflict. There are three ways to win: move the Fisher onto the goal line when you control it, force it to move there when your opponent does, or complete annihilation. Moridin thinks back on his attempt to try option three (in TDR) as being ultimately a bad move (he died). There are degrees of victory for both sides in this conflict - the Shadow might win but be unable to break Shai'tan free. Likewise it could be that the Light is unable to truly seal Him without the Dragon. So Shai'tan ends up stuck half in and half out of the Bore unless Rand (or another incarnation of the Dragon) breaks Him free or seals Him up. If the Dragon wasn't woven out, Shai'tan could wreak a lot of damage on the world but couldn't finish the job, and the Light might contain Shai'tan for a while but couldn't finish the job and seal Him properly either. The Shadow (at least, Ishamael/Moridin and Shai'tan) seeks to turn Rand to the Shadow (so he will do as they wish), or force his hand so he does as they wish. If all else fails, they can always go for kill everyone, and try again later with a new Dragon to finish the job. If they kill Rand, they win but they don't get the final win. That's my take on it, at least.