Moiraine

[Zentari]

Cyndane has mentioned Eelfinn world?

She has mentioned her irritation at not getting her full capacity back after returning.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

Just look at Moariane who can barely channel now. So severing and healing Moraine (by a woman) will actually result in her losing even that small ability to channel!

 

Thats only if healed by a Aes Sedai, if An Asha'man healed she would be back to what she was post severing.

Any chance you meant pre? Post severing she would have no ability at all.... Or did you mean post draining? That would make sense.

 

P.S. Editing the bold text into your post was extremely difficult on my phone.... Just wanted you to know that.

 

lol University exams have made my brain bushy atm :) thanks for the correction.

 

and yes typing on phones is difficult :D

[johthohar]

 

Trying my best not to get drawn into this argument but it sounds like you are both making a LOT of assumptions. The one that particularly sticks out to me is your assertions that the Finns drained her "ability to channel". That seems to be what most of your arguments are based on. All Moiraine said was that they feed on the OP. I may have missed something but where did this theory come from? To me all signs point toward them feeding on the power its self. It is never implied that they feed on the "ability" of channelers.

Yet, if that was true Lanfear would still be at the top of her power so we can assume that it alters their ability to channel SOMEHOW.

False. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a mFalse. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a moot point sense its pretty clear that her having the bracelet angreal was a predetermined solution to the problem of her reduced ability so BS probably won't bother addressing the healing can/can't issue but I think its very interesting to discuss which is why I brought it up a few pages back.

Um, no.Moiraine mentions that the elfin say they drained her to death which she admits can be a bunch of bollocks.Lanfear herself never says that, she just says that they SOMEHOW affected her ability to channel ,and thus making what I said true, thank you very much.

 

 

Cyndane has mentioned Eelfinn world?

I was gonna say I can't remember any Lanfear/Cyndane POV since before the doorway melting. Nor any quotes from her regarding the Finns' world.

[Zentari]

 

Trying my best not to get drawn into this argument but it sounds like you are both making a LOT of assumptions. The one that particularly sticks out to me is your assertions that the Finns drained her "ability to channel". That seems to be what most of your arguments are based on. All Moiraine said was that they feed on the OP. I may have missed something but where did this theory come from? To me all signs point toward them feeding on the power its self. It is never implied that they feed on the "ability" of channelers.

Yet, if that was true Lanfear would still be at the top of her power so we can assume that it alters their ability to channel SOMEHOW.

False. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a mFalse. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a moot point sense its pretty clear that her having the bracelet angreal was a predetermined solution to the problem of her reduced ability so BS probably won't bother addressing the healing can/can't issue but I think its very interesting to discuss which is why I brought it up a few pages back.

Um, no.Moiraine mentions that the elfin say they drained her to death which she admits can be a bunch of bollocks.Lanfear herself never says that, she just says that they SOMEHOW affected her ability to channel ,and thus making what I said true, thank you very much.

 

 

Cyndane has mentioned Eelfinn world?

I was gonna say I can't remember any Lanfear/Cyndane POV since before the doorway melting. Nor any quotes from her regarding the Finns' world.

WH: 35, With the Choedan Kal, 648-649.When she comments on Alivia , she mentions that she is weaker after being held.

No direct comments about her captivity though ( at least, none that I remember from the top of my head).

[johthohar]

Just look at Moariane who can barely channel now. So severing and healing Moraine (by a woman) will actually result in her losing even that small ability to channel!

 

Thats only if healed by a Aes Sedai, if An Asha'man healed she would be back to what she was post severing.

Any chance you meant pre? Post severing she would have no ability at all.... Or did you mean post draining? That would make sense.

 

P.S. Editing the bold text into your post was extremely difficult on my phone.... Just wanted you to know that.

 

lol University exams have made my brain bushy atm :) thanks for the correction.

 

and yes typing on phones is difficult :D

THANK YOU!!! It's not so much the typing as the getting the cursor in the right damn place. Took me twenty minutes! I hate not having internet access at home. I do most of my posting at work but it pisses my boss off.

[WhiskyJack]

Cyndane has mentioned Eelfinn world?

She has mentioned her irritation at not getting her full capacity back after returning.

 

 

When? Till ToM I was not even 100% sure that Cyndane was Lanfear (well 99.99999999999% sure). We have her POV in WH but I don't recall her complaining about her power.

[WhiskyJack]

 

Trying my best not to get drawn into this argument but it sounds like you are both making a LOT of assumptions. The one that particularly sticks out to me is your assertions that the Finns drained her "ability to channel". That seems to be what most of your arguments are based on. All Moiraine said was that they feed on the OP. I may have missed something but where did this theory come from? To me all signs point toward them feeding on the power its self. It is never implied that they feed on the "ability" of channelers.

Yet, if that was true Lanfear would still be at the top of her power so we can assume that it alters their ability to channel SOMEHOW.

False. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a mFalse. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a moot point sense its pretty clear that her having the bracelet angreal was a predetermined solution to the problem of her reduced ability so BS probably won't bother addressing the healing can/can't issue but I think its very interesting to discuss which is why I brought it up a few pages back.

Um, no.Moiraine mentions that the elfin say they drained her to death which she admits can be a bunch of bollocks.Lanfear herself never says that, she just says that they SOMEHOW affected her ability to channel ,and thus making what I said true, thank you very much.

 

 

Cyndane has mentioned Eelfinn world?

I was gonna say I can't remember any Lanfear/Cyndane POV since before the doorway melting. Nor any quotes from her regarding the Finns' world.

WH: 35, With the Choedan Kal, 648-649.When she comments on Alivia , she mentions that she is weaker after being held.

No direct comments about her captivity though ( at least, none that I remember from the top of my head).

 

Yeh but then we didn't know why. Now we know why or how(not why).

[Zentari]

Yeh but then we didn't know why. Now we know why or how(not why).

Um, sorry but what ?

[johthohar]

 

Trying my best not to get drawn into this argument but it sounds like you are both making a LOT of assumptions. The one that particularly sticks out to me is your assertions that the Finns drained her "ability to channel". That seems to be what most of your arguments are based on. All Moiraine said was that they feed on the OP. I may have missed something but where did this theory come from? To me all signs point toward them feeding on the power its self. It is never implied that they feed on the "ability" of channelers.

Yet, if that was true Lanfear would still be at the top of her power so we can assume that it alters their ability to channel SOMEHOW.

False. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a mFalse. Well.... Not entirely. You can assume whatever you want but we have no way to know for sure why Lanfear/Cyndane's channeling prowess was reduced. It's implied that she was drained entirely. If that is the case she wouldn't be able to even sense the source. Much less channel. Personally, I think it's a moot point sense its pretty clear that her having the bracelet angreal was a predetermined solution to the problem of her reduced ability so BS probably won't bother addressing the healing can/can't issue but I think its very interesting to discuss which is why I brought it up a few pages back.

Um, no.Moiraine mentions that the elfin say they drained her to death which she admits can be a bunch of bollocks.Lanfear herself never says that, she just says that they SOMEHOW affected her ability to channel ,and thus making what I said true, thank you very much.

 

 

Cyndane has mentioned Eelfinn world?

I was gonna say I can't remember any Lanfear/Cyndane POV since before the doorway melting. Nor any quotes from her regarding the Finns' world.

WH: 35, With the Choedan Kal, 648-649.When she comments on Alivia , she mentions that she is weaker after being held.

No direct comments about her captivity though ( at least, none that I remember from the top of my head).

Aahhh. K... Now I member. Still... She doesn't say WHY she is weaker... Coulda been punishment from the Dark Lord. BTW, I wonder how many times I need to reread the books before I can make such accurate references that quickly. Damn! Haha.

[WhiskyJack]

Yeh but then we didn't know why. Now we know why or how(not why).

Um, sorry but what ?

 

 

Nothing...

[johthohar]

Yeh but then we didn't know why. Now we know why or how(not why).

Um, sorry but what ?

 

 

Nothing...

good one.

[Sharaman]

 

No, I am pointing that your earlier contention that Lanfear was not healed is at the least, doubtful.

Your belief she cannot be healed requires at least as many assumptions as my belief that she can be healed.

The difference is that I am bothering to supporting my belief and my assumptions with textual reasons.

 

 

1) Black sisters must have learned it.

2) Lanfear must have been severed and trans and then healed..

3).....

 

 

Sorry but these are not evidence...

 

Why Lanfear was not healed? Because we don't know what draining of power truly is. It's not severing something you assumed for some reason. Severing cuts you of from TS (but it doesn't affect your strength in OP) even though you can still sense it but draining literally weakens your ability to channel. So yes, I don't believe Lanfear was severed and healed because we have not seen the kind of healing you are asking for. Ability to channel is innate ability and one is born with it. It cannot be "healed". Nyn's healing simply reconnects you to true source. It cannot regenerate your strength in one power something you are proposing. If Nyn's actually had healed Lanfear, she would have even weaker than what Finns left her to be.

 

So you suggest that Lanfear died because they drained relatively little power -since Cyndane is still among the most powerful of channelers?

You therefore assume that the Finn method of draining can kill channelers through some drainage, whereas we know channelers can survive the shock of instantaneous 100% depletion.

Why are you assuming this?

Do you have textual support for those assumptions?

Why are your assumptions any "simpler" than assuming the Finn drainage method can be healed?

How do you know it doesn't damage the channeling "bridge" in a manner that can be repaired as with stilling?

Are you not making assumptions unsupported by evidence?

 

My assumptions are supported by evidence.

 

This is an adult conversion remember. I hope you not throwing a fit over this...

 

1)I am not suggesting anything like that. I am simply pointing to the fact Lanfear was drained and Cyndane is weaker in power than Lanfear. Much easier to "assume" that at Cyndane level Finns were interrupted by the man who came to pick Lanfear. Afterall, Lanfear stayed in Flinn world for small period of time and even after this much time, Moiraine can still channel

 

You appear not to even realise that you are making assumptions. There are three in the above sentences. This entire thread started because you said that we know Lanfear was not healed. That is in itself, an assumption. My contention is that we don't know that.

Why did Lanfear die by the way? According to you?

 

2)Another silliness. I never said anything like that. In fact I recall you making couple of post supporting that. And how do we know what? Again, mixing the stilling with Power draining, eh?

What is the "silliness"?

 

 

3)Trust me, any assumption I make actually has me saying that I am making an assumption and I don't seem to recall making such assumption. Don't have to. I just care about what we know for fact. Lanfear was drained. She died. Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear. These things are facts and my "crappy" theory only takes these 3 into consideration.

So why did you assert that she wasn't healed?

Are you not "assuming" if she wasn't healed that the difference in power between Lanfear-Cyndane is what the Finns drained? (You do make that statement a little later on)

 

4)Because they are based on fact? Are you really arguing over healing a condition like one Moiraine has? Can you extend your logic and assume that Nynaeve can actually restore Moiraine to her former self?

It could happen except that the Light would be squeamish about stilling her, in case that is required.

 

5)Lanfear was drained. She died somehow. Someone came to pick her from Finn world. She was alive at this moment or she was not, doesn't matter really. But she was drained. And she must have died somewhere. Cyndane is born with weaker in power than Lanfear. Now how many assumptions are there really? If the guy only got dead Lanfear (he must have because Cyndane is there) and restored Lanfear in Cyndane's body but weaker in power, how much of that is my assumption?

How did he "restore" Cydnane?

 

 

Now Black Ajah learning a healing not yet seen in book yet, Cyndane getting severed (for what possible reason!!) and then getting "healed" back is in your opinion is based on textual evidence? We know that if you can channel only X amount before severing, that's what you will get at max after healing. Now in case of Lanfear X was what Finns left her with and not what originally she had with because that would defeat the very idea of power draining! Just look at Moariane who can barely channel now. So severing and healing Moraine (by a woman) will actually result in her losing even that small ability to channel!

 

We've seen BA learning Healing. As I pointed out.

Right - so you do assume that the Lanfear-Cyndane difference is the amount the Finns drained?

 

This is one critical place where we differ. I assume that draining relatively small amounts of OP would not kill a channeler.

(Since even 100% loss doesn't kill channelers)

So I assume they must have drained a lot.

In which case healing is required to reach Cyndane's level.

 

Moairane said that they might have been lying. I kinda believe her.

 

Another assumption on your part - show me a textual statement where the Finns directly lie?

I don't think there is one.

[Zentari]

Aahhh. K... Now I member. Still... She doesn't say WHY she is weaker... Coulda been punishment from the Dark Lord. BTW, I wonder how many times I need to reread the books before I can make such accurate references that quickly. Damn! Haha.

http://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

^You can get better the same way you can get better in everything: learn to cheat :P.

 

Then why is Moiraine weaker too ? In fact if it affects the current channeling instead of the capacity why not keep them infinitely ? Sure, the would have to rest, but the fins could feast on an infinite supply of OP.That didn't happen, so somehow it must affect their capacity.It might take time and or repeated "drawings" but it does affect it.

[WhiskyJack]

 

No, I am pointing that your earlier contention that Lanfear was not healed is at the least, doubtful.

Your belief she cannot be healed requires at least as many assumptions as my belief that she can be healed.

The difference is that I am bothering to supporting my belief and my assumptions with textual reasons.

 

 

1) Black sisters must have learned it.

2) Lanfear must have been severed and trans and then healed..

3).....

 

 

Sorry but these are not evidence...

 

Why Lanfear was not healed? Because we don't know what draining of power truly is. It's not severing something you assumed for some reason. Severing cuts you of from TS (but it doesn't affect your strength in OP) even though you can still sense it but draining literally weakens your ability to channel. So yes, I don't believe Lanfear was severed and healed because we have not seen the kind of healing you are asking for. Ability to channel is innate ability and one is born with it. It cannot be "healed". Nyn's healing simply reconnects you to true source. It cannot regenerate your strength in one power something you are proposing. If Nyn's actually had healed Lanfear, she would have even weaker than what Finns left her to be.

 

So you suggest that Lanfear died because they drained relatively little power -since Cyndane is still among the most powerful of channelers?

You therefore assume that the Finn method of draining can kill channelers through some drainage, whereas we know channelers can survive the shock of instantaneous 100% depletion.

Why are you assuming this?

Do you have textual support for those assumptions?

Why are your assumptions any "simpler" than assuming the Finn drainage method can be healed?

How do you know it doesn't damage the channeling "bridge" in a manner that can be repaired as with stilling?

Are you not making assumptions unsupported by evidence?

 

My assumptions are supported by evidence.

 

This is an adult conversion remember. I hope you not throwing a fit over this...

 

1)I am not suggesting anything like that. I am simply pointing to the fact Lanfear was drained and Cyndane is weaker in power than Lanfear. Much easier to "assume" that at Cyndane level Finns were interrupted by the man who came to pick Lanfear. Afterall, Lanfear stayed in Flinn world for small period of time and even after this much time, Moiraine can still channel

 

You appear not to even realise that you are making assumptions. There are three in the above sentences. This entire thread started because you said that we know Lanfear was not healed. That is in itself, an assumption. My contention is that we don't know that.

Why did Lanfear die by the way? According to you?

 

2)Another silliness. I never said anything like that. In fact I recall you making couple of post supporting that. And how do we know what? Again, mixing the stilling with Power draining, eh?

What is the "silliness"?

 

 

3)Trust me, any assumption I make actually has me saying that I am making an assumption and I don't seem to recall making such assumption. Don't have to. I just care about what we know for fact. Lanfear was drained. She died. Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear. These things are facts and my "crappy" theory only takes these 3 into consideration.

So why did you assert that she wasn't healed?

Are you not "assuming" if she wasn't healed that the difference in power between Lanfear-Cyndane is what the Finns drained? (You do make that statement a little later on)

 

4)Because they are based on fact? Are you really arguing over healing a condition like one Moiraine has? Can you extend your logic and assume that Nynaeve can actually restore Moiraine to her former self?

It could happen except that the Light would be squeamish about stilling her, in case that is required.

 

5)Lanfear was drained. She died somehow. Someone came to pick her from Finn world. She was alive at this moment or she was not, doesn't matter really. But she was drained. And she must have died somewhere. Cyndane is born with weaker in power than Lanfear. Now how many assumptions are there really? If the guy only got dead Lanfear (he must have because Cyndane is there) and restored Lanfear in Cyndane's body but weaker in power, how much of that is my assumption?

How did he "restore" Cydnane?

 

 

Now Black Ajah learning a healing not yet seen in book yet, Cyndane getting severed (for what possible reason!!) and then getting "healed" back is in your opinion is based on textual evidence? We know that if you can channel only X amount before severing, that's what you will get at max after healing. Now in case of Lanfear X was what Finns left her with and not what originally she had with because that would defeat the very idea of power draining! Just look at Moariane who can barely channel now. So severing and healing Moraine (by a woman) will actually result in her losing even that small ability to channel!

 

We've seen BA learning Healing. As I pointed out.

Right - so you do assume that the Lanfear-Cyndane difference is the amount the Finns drained?

 

This is one critical place where we differ. I assume that draining relatively small amounts of OP would not kill a channeler.

(Since even 100% loss doesn't kill channelers)

So I assume they must have drained a lot.

In which case healing is required to reach Cyndane's level.

 

Moairane said that they might have been lying. I kinda believe her.

 

Another assumption on your part - show me a textual statement where the Finns directly lie?

I don't think there is one.

 

 

You must be a woman!!!Who gives a crap how Lanfear died. I don't care how she died. I am sure you can see all the assumptions but I don't see one.You claimed that Cyndane was healed. Yes you.And my denying that is somehow an assumption? An assumption denying another? And how can my claim be "assumption" if we have not seen the kind of healing you are asking for. I don't wanna argue for the sake of it.

[johthohar]

Aahhh. K... Now I member. Still... She doesn't say WHY she is weaker... Coulda been punishment from the Dark Lord. BTW, I wonder how many times I need to reread the books before I can make such accurate references that quickly. Damn! Haha.

http://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

^You can get better the same way you can get better in everything: learn to cheat :P.

 

Then why is Moiraine weaker too ? In fact if it affects the current channeling instead of the capacity why not keep them infinitely ? Sure, the would have to rest, but the fins could feast on an infinite supply of OP.That didn't happen, so somehow it must affect their capacity.It might take time and or repeated "drawings" but it does affect it.

Will click link when have access to real PC again. Thanks. And to answer your question: because they can't. I think Moridin visited the Eelfinn somehow and returning Lanfear was one of his requests/wishes. That or they were telling the truth when they said they 86ed her. As for Moiraine... Well, she was forcibly taken. Easy answer.

[Deadsy]

Lanfear is weaker in the OP now

Moiraine is weaker in the OP now

The 'Finns drain the OP

The 'Finns held both of them

 

 

 

but let's make this more difficult than the obvious and say Lanfear was stilled and then healed by a BA. WUT?

 

*bangsheadondesk*

[WhiskyJack]

Lanfear is weaker in the OP now

Moiraine is weaker in the OP now

The 'Finns drain the OP

The 'Finns held both of them

 

 

 

but let's make this more difficult than the obvious and say Lanfear was stilled and then healed by a BA. WUT?

 

*bangsheadondesk*

 

 

LOL. I so concur.

[Zentari]

Will click link when have access to real PC again. Thanks. And to answer your question: because they can't. I think Moridin visited the Eelfinn somehow and returning Lanfear was one of his requests/wishes. That or they were telling the truth when they said they 86ed her. As for Moiraine... Well, she was forcibly taken. Easy answer.

What I'm saying is that if they had the ability to draw from the current of OP while leaving the potential untouched they would, since that would mean that their "snack" would last longer.Unless they enjoy tormenting so much but even then , it doesn't change the fact that both of them came out diminished.

[Duskfire]

Lanfear is weaker in the OP now

Moiraine is weaker in the OP now

The 'Finns drain the OP

The 'Finns held both of them

 

 

 

but let's make this more difficult than the obvious and say Lanfear was stilled and then healed by a BA. WUT?

 

*bangsheadondesk*

 

Haha I completely agree. Seems pretty obvious to me. The Finns drain Lanfear, she for some reason dies. She gets ressurected with the same amount of strength drained from her. the end.

[Terez]

Lanfear is weaker in the OP now

Moiraine is weaker in the OP now

The 'Finns drain the OP

The 'Finns held both of them

 

 

but let's make this more difficult than the obvious and say Lanfear was stilled and then healed by a BA. WUT?

 

*bangsheadondesk*

lol. It was a good theory before TOM, especially after TGS. But yeah.

 

Now, where are the cupcakes? I was promised cupcakes.

[Sharaman]

 

No, I am pointing that your earlier contention that Lanfear was not healed is at the least, doubtful.

Your belief she cannot be healed requires at least as many assumptions as my belief that she can be healed.

The difference is that I am bothering to supporting my belief and my assumptions with textual reasons.

 

 

1) Black sisters must have learned it.

2) Lanfear must have been severed and trans and then healed..

3).....

 

 

Sorry but these are not evidence...

 

Why Lanfear was not healed? Because we don't know what draining of power truly is. It's not severing something you assumed for some reason. Severing cuts you of from TS (but it doesn't affect your strength in OP) even though you can still sense it but draining literally weakens your ability to channel. So yes, I don't believe Lanfear was severed and healed because we have not seen the kind of healing you are asking for. Ability to channel is innate ability and one is born with it. It cannot be "healed". Nyn's healing simply reconnects you to true source. It cannot regenerate your strength in one power something you are proposing. If Nyn's actually had healed Lanfear, she would have even weaker than what Finns left her to be.

 

So you suggest that Lanfear died because they drained relatively little power -since Cyndane is still among the most powerful of channelers?

You therefore assume that the Finn method of draining can kill channelers through some drainage, whereas we know channelers can survive the shock of instantaneous 100% depletion.

Why are you assuming this?

Do you have textual support for those assumptions?

Why are your assumptions any "simpler" than assuming the Finn drainage method can be healed?

How do you know it doesn't damage the channeling "bridge" in a manner that can be repaired as with stilling?

Are you not making assumptions unsupported by evidence?

 

My assumptions are supported by evidence.

 

This is an adult conversion remember. I hope you not throwing a fit over this...

 

1)I am not suggesting anything like that. I am simply pointing to the fact Lanfear was drained and Cyndane is weaker in power than Lanfear. Much easier to "assume" that at Cyndane level Finns were interrupted by the man who came to pick Lanfear. Afterall, Lanfear stayed in Flinn world for small period of time and even after this much time, Moiraine can still channel

 

You appear not to even realise that you are making assumptions. There are three in the above sentences. This entire thread started because you said that we know Lanfear was not healed. That is in itself, an assumption. My contention is that we don't know that.

Why did Lanfear die by the way? According to you?

 

2)Another silliness. I never said anything like that. In fact I recall you making couple of post supporting that. And how do we know what? Again, mixing the stilling with Power draining, eh?

What is the "silliness"?

 

 

3)Trust me, any assumption I make actually has me saying that I am making an assumption and I don't seem to recall making such assumption. Don't have to. I just care about what we know for fact. Lanfear was drained. She died. Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear. These things are facts and my "crappy" theory only takes these 3 into consideration.

So why did you assert that she wasn't healed?

Are you not "assuming" if she wasn't healed that the difference in power between Lanfear-Cyndane is what the Finns drained? (You do make that statement a little later on)

 

4)Because they are based on fact? Are you really arguing over healing a condition like one Moiraine has? Can you extend your logic and assume that Nynaeve can actually restore Moiraine to her former self?

It could happen except that the Light would be squeamish about stilling her, in case that is required.

 

5)Lanfear was drained. She died somehow. Someone came to pick her from Finn world. She was alive at this moment or she was not, doesn't matter really. But she was drained. And she must have died somewhere. Cyndane is born with weaker in power than Lanfear. Now how many assumptions are there really? If the guy only got dead Lanfear (he must have because Cyndane is there) and restored Lanfear in Cyndane's body but weaker in power, how much of that is my assumption?

How did he "restore" Cydnane?

 

 

Now Black Ajah learning a healing not yet seen in book yet, Cyndane getting severed (for what possible reason!!) and then getting "healed" back is in your opinion is based on textual evidence? We know that if you can channel only X amount before severing, that's what you will get at max after healing. Now in case of Lanfear X was what Finns left her with and not what originally she had with because that would defeat the very idea of power draining! Just look at Moariane who can barely channel now. So severing and healing Moraine (by a woman) will actually result in her losing even that small ability to channel!

 

We've seen BA learning Healing. As I pointed out.

Right - so you do assume that the Lanfear-Cyndane difference is the amount the Finns drained?

 

This is one critical place where we differ. I assume that draining relatively small amounts of OP would not kill a channeler.

(Since even 100% loss doesn't kill channelers)

So I assume they must have drained a lot.

In which case healing is required to reach Cyndane's level.

 

Moairane said that they might have been lying. I kinda believe her.

 

Another assumption on your part - show me a textual statement where the Finns directly lie?

I don't think there is one.

 

 

You must be a woman!!!Who gives a crap how Lanfear died. I don't care how she died. I am sure you can see all the assumptions but I don't see one.You claimed that Cyndane was healed. Yes you.And my denying that is somehow an assumption? An assumption denying another? And how can my claim be "assumption" if we have not seen the kind of healing you are asking for. I don't wanna argue for the sake of it.

You claimed that we know Cyndane is not healed.

I claimed that we have no proof that Cyndane is not healed.

It is kind of important if Lanfear died as a result of power-loss.

It would have to be a massive amount of power loss to cause her death.

If you can't see the assumptions, that makes me a woman? Interesting assumption.

[johthohar]

Lanfear is weaker in the OP now

Moiraine is weaker in the OP now

The 'Finns drain the OP

The 'Finns held both of them

 

 

 

but let's make this more difficult than the obvious and say Lanfear was stilled and then healed by a BA. WUT?

 

*bangsheadondesk*

Lanfear is weaker.

Moiraine is weaker.

Little evidence why Lanfear is weaker.

Dark One resurrection/punishment unknown variables.

Could go on but won't.

 

*helpsyoubangheadondesk*

[WhiskyJack]

^^But we do have some evidence (Finn can drain OP) so it's not pure conjecture. I doubt BS is going explain this issue in AMoL.

[johthohar]

^^But we do have some evidence (Finn can drain OP) so it's not pure conjecture. I doubt BS is going explain this issue in AMoL.

QFT

[Deadsy]

Little evidence why Lanfear is weaker.

 

How do you figure? The 'Finns drain power

 

She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!

 

Key word: held

We can easily infer that they took some of her Power.