Discuss The Full Book

[OptimusPrime]

Okay this isnt an important post to be honest.

 

I havent read much of the book yet. However I think I have found quite possibly the best Rand quote the series will ever give us. On page 85.

 

"Very well," Egwene said. "But this is not ended, Rand."

 

"There are no endings, Egwene."

 

Does that sound like the Creator or WHAT?!?

 

To have Rand quote the opening of all the books like this reminded me of all the sentimentalities of the series. It made me think for quite a while, that small quote. For example, look at Brandons situation in all this. He was a fan of the books, then he got to WRITE one. Now I remember a time when people were angry when the split of AMoL was announced, the worry a lot of people expressed here about the series not meeting the end RJ intended. But then you read a thing like this, where Rand says something I never knew I had been waiting for him to say until he had said it.

 

You can say what you want about Brandon Sanderson. Mat may or may not feel like himself in some places, some words may or may not have been overused (read: tempest) and some scenes may or may not feel rushed-which, while understandable, is still there. But you KNOW things are going the way they should. You can just TELL.

 

Brandons voice may or may not be as powerful as RJs was, but the fact of the matter is, that Rand quote above captures the body and soul of the entire story in a few words. Oddly enough, to me it was almost as if Brandon was giving something back to RJ in that passage, and for that reason I am once again reminded that there could not be a better person to finish these books than Brandon Sanderson.

 

End of sentimental rant. Will join the discussions when Ive read the book in full.

 

P.S. Taim is still Moridin.

[Oneida]

As far as I can tell about the only good argument that this vision isn't what WILL happen is that Rand bows(and sadly why wouldn't he, ZenRand didn't mind getting getting pimp slapped 4 times in a row for the greater good). He could TV around having to bow or something. Tuan needs a humility cheek certainly. Not to mention where the prophesy to Bow comes from. But he would probably Bow. It's hinted in the visions that Avi WAS trying to change this future, or was at least alot more talkative about the future of the Aiel than she has ever been before the end of ToM. So this probably is how the warrior aiel end. The remnant that survives are the Gai'shan who refuse to take off the white and/or whatever happens with the way of the leaf/Traveling People plot. The visions also show that they don't even have gai'shan and that the word has changed in meaning for the warrior aiel. The remnant that survives( a bunch of Gai'shan no one wants to kill because they serve tea better than Morgase) turns into the highly-respected, way of the leaf following, seedsinging, servant Aiel by the next AoL. The vision makes clear that Seanchan are expanding across the wastes in a highly advanced way that Avi confuses for the Aol at first. The Seanchan probably do end up conquering. Uniting the world they have plenty of time to deal with their bad cultural aspects (slavery) by the next Aol. They even are starting to show signs of compassion in the first(Last?) vision. Yes one of them kills the wretch mercilessly but the other one pities it. Eventually they get done with the whole Damane thing on their own and the world reaches a height of One power prestige again so they can cause another bore in the perfectly sealed Do Prison. Full circle. Or as others mentioned this is how the Dark One wants it so the Light is weak the next time around. Though I don't see Damane being able to cause a new bore as they are so badly restricted.

 

K, I lied, this probably won't happen because it would be too damned easy to prevent. Avi has all the knowledge she needs. I could see this being how the Shadow wants things to happen if they lose the LB. I don't see this being a contingency plan of the Shadow if they are going to send Nagani or whatever her name was out to get Avi working on this in the first place. Unless this is what has to happen for the wheel to come full circle in the correct way and the shadow sends Nagani to get Avi to screw it up. I suppose Nagani could be Verin if Avi's timeline is behind everyone elses(how many books ago did she leave for Ruidien anyway?) but probably not since everyone elses timeline was brought even.

 

Anyway. Since they mentioned that Lower Caemlyn or however its spelled had grown so much about a dozen times I'm guessing thats where the worst of the damage is going to be. Isn't that where the Ogier groove use to be? I doubt they actually take the city.

 

One thing that bugs me is Verins letter to mat. Maybe I need to go reread when she gave him the letter and the deal she made with Mat about it but it just seems like she botched the hell out of that. Couldn't she have just asked Mat to give the letter to Elayne right away? I was kinda disappointed in the letter actually. I was thinking it would be something she wanted Mat to do . All the letter really said was warn the queen.

 

It was probably one of my favorite chapters in all of the books but I can't remember all the details of her meeting with Eagwenn since it's been a year since I read it.Can anyone refresh me? What was the reason Eagwen couldn't heal her? I know she was hopped up on forkroot but ...eh I need to read it again.

 

Anyway, sorry for my lousy name spelling. I learned from Mat. Did anyone else notice an unusual amount of typos in the book? I've read everything else written by RJ and BS and it seemed like more in one book than all the rest of both authors books combined. Sorry for long post.

[RedVanilla]

Verin drank asping rot tea, and extremely fast acting poison to nullify her oaths to the Dark One so she could make a full confession to Egwene about what the Black Ajah and the Shadow were up to. It was supposed to cause death within an hour. She couldn't heal Verin because she was full of fork root, she couldn't call for help to heal Verin, because explanations would have also taken over an hour, Verin would have been dead and no confessions or help given, so she really had no choice but to sit down and listen to what Verin had to say before the tea took it's full effect and killed her.

 

Verin expected to be back and able to warn Caemlyn about the Trollocs invading within a day or two, but knew if she wasn't, she would be dead. So, Verin gave Mat the letter hoping curiousity would make him open it as soon as she was gone longer than the afternoon, in which case it would have been taken care of. In case it didn't work, Verin made him promise if he didn't open his troops would stay in Caemlyn for 20 days, which she felt would have put him right there to stop it in case he didn't open the letter. Either way, she did her best in the amount of time she had.

[kristineaskada]

Looks like this thread is less about discussing the book and more about OOOH OOH LET ME BE THE FIRST TO SPOIL IT FOR EVERYONE!!!1

 

 

But....how can we discuss the book if we can't talk about it? It does say "Full Spoilers" in this part of the forum. If you don't want to know what happens, wait until you've read the book before you come into this discussion. Simple.

[blazetheearth]

Looks like this thread is less about discussing the book and more about OOOH OOH LET ME BE THE FIRST TO SPOIL IT FOR EVERYONE!!!1

 

 

But....how can we discuss the book if we can't talk about it? It does say "Full Spoilers" in this part of the forum. If you don't want to know what happens, wait until you've read the book before you come into this discussion. Simple.

 

Please note that the comment you quoted was placed here before the book actually came out everywhere, but I agree with you. If they didn't want spoilers then they should have stayed on the General Discussion Board.

[Arkane101]

Didnt see/look for a ask a simple question get a simple answer topic so ill use this thusly. My point and question are who else is annoyed by the jumping back and forth in time in the towers of midnight, secondly has anyone made some sort of page/time comparrison cause I want to read it in chronological order lol. and if it's been done anyone know where to find it?

[RedVanilla]

I think putting it in chronological order would take a LONG bit of time, just since there are soooo many characters. Things are mostly caught up to the day before the Last Battle by the end, if you want it in order, perhaps you could go back through your books and plot a timeline.

[blazetheearth]

Didnt see/look for a ask a simple question get a simple answer topic so ill use this thusly. My point and question are who else is annoyed by the jumping back and forth in time in the towers of midnight, secondly has anyone made some sort of page/time comparrison cause I want to read it in chronological order lol. and if it's been done anyone know where to find it?

 

It definitely made it more difficult to follow, but BS and Team Jordan did have a very good reason for it. I haven't seen a Complete Continuity Compilation for the series yet. There are very good markers in Perrin's parts in the early part of ToM if you wanted to match up his timeline with Rand's, but I don't remember many for matching up Mat with the rest until Mat and Perrin meet in Whitebridge.

[moratcorlm]

Didnt see/look for a ask a simple question get a simple answer topic so ill use this thusly. My point and question are who else is annoyed by the jumping back and forth in time in the towers of midnight, secondly has anyone made some sort of page/time comparrison cause I want to read it in chronological order lol. and if it's been done anyone know where to find it?

It slipped all the way to the second page.

 

If you want a timeline, the one I'm fiddling with is in my sig.

[MauricXe]

Is anyone else bothered by the idea that the Seanchan will rule?

 

After reading Aviendha's viewings and Eladia teaching Traveling, I was left with a bad feeling my stomach. I REALLY would NOT be happy to see the book end with those collar-loving jerks in charge.

 

I suspect Aviendha will find someway to change the viewings. But do any of you think it's possible or is it inevitable?

[jfmarchini]

Looks like you asked the wrong questions - she was confirmed as the killer in the glossary, and Harriet and others have said as much (that it is confirmed). Interesting that Brandon still won't answer. :D

I'm sorry to bring this up, so long afterwards, but your answer really upset me. Your name comes up a lot in many interpretations and theories regarding the wheel of time, and you appear to take a great deal of time and care to understand what is going on between the lines. I would not have expected a "snappy" answer like that.

I don't really understand your point. I think if you read what I wrote, you'll notice I was talking about the glossary. The glossary states: [...]"she was responsible for the deaths of Aran'gar and Asmodean and for the destruction of Mesaana."

 

So, did she pull the trigger on Aran'gar? Did she pull the trigger on Mesaana? Sure she was pretty much involved in both cases and it may well have been her fault, but that's not the same thing as pulling the trigger herself. Rand killed one and Egwene the other.

 

By combining these three demises in one sentence, it is a valid argument that if something applies to two parts, it would apply to the third as well. In other words, did she pull the trigger on Asmodean? Again, sure, she could have been involved, but that doesn't mean she did it herself.

 

And that was what my question was about. So I don't see how it could have been the "the wrong question".

 

Best regards.

[FarShainMael]

Looks like you asked the wrong questions - she was confirmed as the killer in the glossary, and Harriet and others have said as much (that it is confirmed). Interesting that Brandon still won't answer. :D

I'm sorry to bring this up, so long afterwards, but your answer really upset me. Your name comes up a lot in many interpretations and theories regarding the wheel of time, and you appear to take a great deal of time and care to understand what is going on between the lines. I would not have expected a "snappy" answer like that.

I don't really understand your point. I think if you read what I wrote, you'll notice I was talking about the glossary. The glossary states: [...]"she was responsible for the deaths of Aran'gar and Asmodean and for the destruction of Mesaana."

 

So, did she pull the trigger on Aran'gar? Did she pull the trigger on Mesaana? Sure she was pretty much involved in both cases and it may well have been her fault, but that's not the same thing as pulling the trigger herself. Rand killed one and Egwene the other.

 

By combining these three demises in one sentence, it is a valid argument that if something applies to two parts, it would apply to the third as well. In other words, did she pull the trigger on Asmodean? Again, sure, she could have been involved, but that doesn't mean she did it herself.

 

And that was what my question was about. So I don't see how it could have been the "the wrong question".

 

Best regards.

 

Absolutely right. 'Responsible for' doesn't necessarily mean 'killed', just as 'destruction' doesn't necessarily mean 'death'.

 

It is important to be precise in these matters, to avoid confusion.