Disappointed in the Children of the Light

[Abutt]

Obviously their philosophy sucks. And I hate how they accuse nearly everyone as being a dark friend but, you would think that because they are strictly just an army, that they would kick ass. But so far, we have seen none, only them getting their ass kicked or running away. I hope they actually manage to do something good by the end of the series. Your thoughts?

[Xader]

Well, with the recent turnover in administration, I can see them going places...

[jdbond]

"Strictly just an army"? Isn't every army just that? Whitecloaks are few in number and hence no force outside their own base.

 

By the way, they didn't start that way. Human beings have a way of corrupting all believes.

[Abutt]

Well, with the recent turnover in administration, I can see them going places...

Agreed.

 

 

"Strictly just an army"? Isn't every army just that? Whitecloaks are few in number and hence no force outside their own base.

 

By the way, they didn't start that way. Human beings have a way of corrupting all believes.

What I mean is that they are a military force that runs its self, its not part of any nation.

[jdbond]

Well, with the recent turnover in administration, I can see them going places...

Agreed.

 

 

"Strictly just an army"? Isn't every army just that? Whitecloaks are few in number and hence no force outside their own base.

 

By the way, they didn't start that way. Human beings have a way of corrupting all believes.

What I mean is that they are a military force that runs its self, its not part of any nation.

 

 

No good reason for them to be an elite force. On this side of Dragonwall, probably Borderlanders are best fighters. Narishma said something akin to that.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Obviously their philosophy sucks. And I hate how they accuse nearly everyone as being a dark friend but, you would think that because they are strictly just an army, that they would kick ass. But so far, we have seen none, only them getting their ass kicked or running away. I hope they actually manage to do something good by the end of the series. Your thoughts?

 

They are just like any religious faction to me.

 

The original religion is corrupted by select few humans who do things for greed and power. It happens in every single religious institute.

 

But in its barest form, the religion has good morals etc. Just people always mess it up.

[Abutt]

No good reason for them to be an elite force. On this side of Dragonwall, probably Borderlanders are best fighters. Narishma said something akin to that.

They should be though, they should defiantly be an elite fighting force. They have been around since the Trolloc Wars if I'm not mistaken. Also, if you become a whitecloak, your one for life. With that, you would expect a large amount of them to be blade masters... It just surprises me they havent done anything of use, thus far in the series.

[Durinax]

narishma said something akin to that he was a militia trained borderlander and could beat armsmen 9 times outa ten or some such

[Barid Bel Medar]

Also, we actually see very few whitecloak PoV or interaction.

 

There are the crazy zealots we see (byar bornhald etc.) but there are the 30,000 (no idea but something like that) others that are normal or like Galad.

 

Again, its like any religion. You get your crazy zealots that give it a bad name, those who corrupt it for their own ends, but the majority of religious people are actually pretty good.

[jdbond]

narishma said something akin to that he was a militia trained borderlander and could beat armsmen 9 times outa ten or some such

 

 

He said that even ordinary people in borderland get military training and he can easily thump 4-5 non-borderlanders.

[Abutt]

Obviously their philosophy sucks. And I hate how they accuse nearly everyone as being a dark friend but, you would think that because they are strictly just an army, that they would kick ass. But so far, we have seen none, only them getting their ass kicked or running away. I hope they actually manage to do something good by the end of the series. Your thoughts?

 

They are just like any religious faction to me.

 

The original religion is corrupted by select few humans who do things for greed and power. It happens in every single religious institute.

 

But in its barest form, the religion has good morals etc. Just people always mess it up.

Agreed

[jdbond]

No good reason for them to be an elite force. On this side of Dragonwall, probably Borderlanders are best fighters. Narishma said something akin to that.

They should be though, they should defiantly be an elite fighting force. They have been around since the Trolloc Wars if I'm not mistaken. Also, if you become a whitecloak, your one for life. With that, you would expect a large amount of them to be blade masters... It just surprises me they havent done anything of use, thus far in the series.

 

Er...Just like in real life, in Randland just because you own a sword and practice 20 hrs a day doesn't mean you will ever be a blademaster. I am not sure why you have hots for them but they are no different from a regular military. Most of them are zealots.They didn't join the organistaion because they were so good at fighting. If I am to understand, any military that has been around for more than 1000 year should have 100% blademaster and all?Is that what you are assuming?

[didymos]

What I mean is that they are a military force that runs its self, its not part of any nation.

 

But they aren't just a military force. They basically ran Amadicia. The "government" there was almost purely ornamental. And the Questioners are notorious for not really being soldiers, or even really Children.

[Barid Bel Medar]

No good reason for them to be an elite force. On this side of Dragonwall, probably Borderlanders are best fighters. Narishma said something akin to that.

They should be though, they should defiantly be an elite fighting force. They have been around since the Trolloc Wars if I'm not mistaken. Also, if you become a whitecloak, your one for life. With that, you would expect a large amount of them to be blade masters... It just surprises me they havent done anything of use, thus far in the series.

 

Er...Just like in real life, in Randland just because you own a sword and practice 20 hrs a day doesn't mean you will ever be a blademaster. I am not sure why you have hots for them but they are no different from a regular military. Most of them are zealots.They didn't join the organistaion because they were so good at fighting. If I am to understand, any military that has been around for more than 1000 year should have 100% blademaster and all?Is that what you are assuming?

 

Then they wouldnt be blademasters would they? If everyone was the same.

 

Blademaster isnt really a number or correlation to a point where you can say "once you can do these things, you are a blademaster" YOu dont take a test and if you get 17/20 or higher you are blademaster.

 

Its more about them being far above the ordinary person. The only way to become a blademaster is to defeat one. Its a symbolic thing, not a number you can give to skill. IMO anyway.

 

And I agree, not everyone has what it takes to be a blademaster. Some people are less co-ordinated than others.

 

If I were to train every single second of my life for Football (soccer) doesnt mean I will be the greatest ever. I am fairly decent, but I will never be extraordinary. Some people just dont have the natural skill

[didymos]

Oh, also: it seems kinda like you're buying into their PR a bit. They like to present the image of being awesome and badass, but it's kinda the whole point that they're actually not that great, just really arrogant. I mean, they spend most of their time attacking people who can't really fight back, and not doing much in the way of real fighting against actual competent and effective militaries.

[Abutt]

Oh, also: it seems kinda like you're buying into their PR a bit. They like to present the image of being awesome and badass, but it's kinda the whole point that they're actually not that great, just really arrogant. I mean, they spend most of their time attacking people who can't really fight back, and not doing much in the way of real fighting against actual competent and effective militaries.

Not at all actually... All I am saying, is that you would think they would be an elite force. Im not talking about their philosphy at all here, if you were to actually read my first post on this thread, you would know that.

[haloun]

the whitecloaks definately started out badass, but that was 1000 years ago, think of the knights templar who actively recruited, but did nothing but bully people and "arrest", outside of their jurisdiction, darkfriends. the only time they actually act as a military group effectively is in place where people fear them.

[Abutt]

No good reason for them to be an elite force. On this side of Dragonwall, probably Borderlanders are best fighters. Narishma said something akin to that.

They should be though, they should defiantly be an elite fighting force. They have been around since the Trolloc Wars if I'm not mistaken. Also, if you become a whitecloak, your one for life. With that, you would expect a large amount of them to be blade masters... It just surprises me they havent done anything of use, thus far in the series.

 

Er...Just like in real life, in Randland just because you own a sword and practice 20 hrs a day doesn't mean you will ever be a blademaster. I am not sure why you have hots for them but they are no different from a regular military. Most of them are zealots.They didn't join the organistaion because they were so good at fighting. If I am to understand, any military that has been around for more than 1000 year should have 100% blademaster and all?Is that what you are assuming?

 

Then they wouldnt be blademasters would they? If everyone was the same.

 

Blademaster isnt really a number or correlation to a point where you can say "once you can do these things, you are a blademaster" YOu dont take a test and if you get 17/20 or higher you are blademaster.

 

Its more about them being far above the ordinary person. The only way to become a blademaster is to defeat one. Its a symbolic thing, not a number you can give to skill. IMO anyway.

 

And I agree, not everyone has what it takes to be a blademaster. Some people are less co-ordinated than others.

 

If I were to train every single second of my life for Football (soccer) doesnt mean I will be the greatest ever. I am fairly decent, but I will never be extraordinary. Some people just dont have the natural skill

I mispoke when I said blademaster, I understand the process of becoming a blademaster. All I meant is that you would think that their soldiers would be far more skilled than the average solider (excluding the boarderlands). Also, I dont have the "hots" for them, Im simply disappointed that they haven't done anything of use.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I have a feeling Galad's going to be showing the way on what's right with the -doctrine- the Children are supposed to follow, but what's wrong with the Children themselves.

[Barid Bel Medar]

No good reason for them to be an elite force. On this side of Dragonwall, probably Borderlanders are best fighters. Narishma said something akin to that.

They should be though, they should defiantly be an elite fighting force. They have been around since the Trolloc Wars if I'm not mistaken. Also, if you become a whitecloak, your one for life. With that, you would expect a large amount of them to be blade masters... It just surprises me they havent done anything of use, thus far in the series.

 

Er...Just like in real life, in Randland just because you own a sword and practice 20 hrs a day doesn't mean you will ever be a blademaster. I am not sure why you have hots for them but they are no different from a regular military. Most of them are zealots.They didn't join the organistaion because they were so good at fighting. If I am to understand, any military that has been around for more than 1000 year should have 100% blademaster and all?Is that what you are assuming?

 

Then they wouldnt be blademasters would they? If everyone was the same.

 

Blademaster isnt really a number or correlation to a point where you can say "once you can do these things, you are a blademaster" YOu dont take a test and if you get 17/20 or higher you are blademaster.

 

Its more about them being far above the ordinary person. The only way to become a blademaster is to defeat one. Its a symbolic thing, not a number you can give to skill. IMO anyway.

 

And I agree, not everyone has what it takes to be a blademaster. Some people are less co-ordinated than others.

 

If I were to train every single second of my life for Football (soccer) doesnt mean I will be the greatest ever. I am fairly decent, but I will never be extraordinary. Some people just dont have the natural skill

I mispoke when I said blademaster, I understand the process of becoming a blademaster. All I meant is that you would think that their soldiers would be far more skilled than the average solider (excluding the boarderlands). Also, I dont have the "hots" for them, Im simply disappointed that they haven't done anything of use.

 

Thats fair enough. I understand that. But again, they are pretty much like the average soldier, because thats what they are. The Borderlanders are exceptional because they have experience, defending the Blight all of their lives.

 

While the Whitecloaks are a "military" organization, they dont actually do much fighting. They are not constantly battling agianst Trollocs. Most of their work is like any other soldier. Guard duty, paractise etc...

 

I mean, considering they are supposed to be a military organization, then in that respect, yeah, I think that they should have better quality soldiers, as it is their profession. But in reality, they are like Andorian/Cairhein/Illianer/Tarien soldiers.

[Crael123]

Misunderstood post

[Crael123]

Back on topic. The Whitecloaks do sort of suck and they just think everyone is a darkfriend except them... but Galad isn't bad. he just wants to do what is right and i think the others should learn from that

[didymos]

Oh, also: it seems kinda like you're buying into their PR a bit. They like to present the image of being awesome and badass, but it's kinda the whole point that they're actually not that great, just really arrogant. I mean, they spend most of their time attacking people who can't really fight back, and not doing much in the way of real fighting against actual competent and effective militaries.

Not at all actually... All I am saying, is that you would think they would be an elite force. Im not talking about their philosphy at all here, if you were to actually read my first post on this thread, you would know that.

 

I'm saying their rep as presented in the books is influencing your ideas of what they "should" be, and thus influencing the stuff you wrote.

[didymos]

Then they wouldnt be blademasters would they? If everyone was the same.

 

Sure, they would, if they all learned the right stuff. That's like saying that if everyone had a doctorate, they wouldn't be doctors of whatever anymore. They would, but their degrees probably wouldn't be worth as much in the job market.

 

Blademaster isnt really a number or correlation to a point where you can say "once you can do these things, you are a blademaster" YOu dont take a test and if you get 17/20 or higher you are blademaster.

 

Uh, actually, that's pretty much the general idea. It most definitely is about skill. There just aren't accredited blademaster universities or whatever. That doesn't mean it doesn't require one to have a certain body of knowledge and the ability to use it effectively. There's a reason people train with acknowledged blademasters.

 

Its more about them being far above the ordinary person.

 

Uh, yeah: 'cause they're empirically better at kicking your ass with a sword.

 

The only way to become a blademaster is to defeat one.

 

No. For one, you have to defeat one and it must be witnessed (which is why RJ said Rand killing Turak didn't actually count).

 

For two, there's another way:

Ranny: I don't think this'll come up at all in the series, so hopefully it won't be a RAFO. ;) Just how 'organized' is the institution of blademastery, if we can call it that? I believe you hinted before that there's more to blademastery than beating a blademaster and taking his sword. And, how many blademasters do you imagine exist in Randland at the time of the books? Just how rare is it?

RJ: First off...rarity. Fewer than 100 men in the nations that are spoken of in the book. It is a semi-formal thing. That is normally one is chosen to become a blademaster by other blademasters. There's no real organization. If you want to become a blademaster, you have to find other blademasters who are willing to acknowledge you as an equal.

 

 

 

Its a symbolic thing, not a number you can give to skill. IMO anyway.

 

Doesn't need to be quantified to be more than merely symbolic (though it probably could be if someone in Randland really wanted to go to the trouble). Neither are real-world martial arts for the most part (yeah, belt ranks and whatnot, but it still comes down to a teacher judging someone worthy based on their knowledge and experience). Sure, there's no guarantee that someone who is technically a blademaster doesn't actually suck, but I wouldn't bet on it in a fight (and actually, there's no guarantee in RL that someone with a genuine medical degree isn't a wretched hack who shouldn't be allowed within 100 feet of a prescription pad). Odds are that, unless you just so happen to be the Dragon Reborn, you're gonna die...quickly.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Obviously their philosophy sucks. And I hate how they accuse nearly everyone as being a dark friend but, you would think that because they are strictly just an army, that they would kick ass. But so far, we have seen none, only them getting their ass kicked or running away. I hope they actually manage to do something good by the end of the series. Your thoughts?

 

They are just like any religious faction to me.

 

The original religion is corrupted by select few humans who do things for greed and power. It happens in every single religious institute.

 

But in its barest form, the religion has good morals etc. Just people always mess it up.

Agreed

 

 

I disagree. how can you say that. so just because some catholic priest rapes a little boy, all Catholics are "corrupted" ??

 

Just because some Muslim extremest is a suicide bomber all Muslims are bad?

 

I disagree or maybe just didn't see what your saying but... no im sorry that is completely untrue and i find that a little offensive.

 

I am afraid you completely missed the point. Read the other posts before you comment with something like this.