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Sorilea is a Darkfriend(or worse)


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I'm sure this has already been discussed although I couldn't find it. She is reportedly weak in the power and yet a very quick learner, she watched Cadsuane undo and reset her warding on the box containing the domination band and is in a position of great power and trust, which is where the Darkfriends are most useful.

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I'm sure this has already been discussed although I couldn't find it. She is reportedly weak in the power and yet a very quick learner, she watched Cadsuane undo and reset her warding on the box containing the domination band and is in a position of great power and trust, which is where the Darkfriends are most useful.

 

She's not a Friend of the Dark, she's Demandred ;)

 

That all sounds good, but where's the real evidence? In fact, if she's a quick learner, that would be more like one of the Forsaken than a Darkfriend. And who could have escaped early enough --- excluding Ishamael --- to be as familiar to others and as wrinkly as Sorilea.

 

Joel

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I'm sure this has already been discussed although I couldn't find it. She is reportedly weak in the power and yet a very quick learner, she watched Cadsuane undo and reset her warding on the box containing the domination band and is in a position of great power and trust, which is where the Darkfriends are most useful.

 

What does being a quick learner have to do with anything? Yeah, I know: being stronger in the Power means one tends to learn faster, but that is hardly the same as "One must be strong in the Power in order to learn quickly." And, as pointed out there's absolutely no reason to suppose that's got anything to do with being part of Team Shadow anyway, barring Forsakenhood, and thus there's basically no evidence for the "Sorilea == Shadowrunner" notion.

Edited by didymos
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There's plenty of tidbits laying about that, put together, could lead one to believe that Sorilea has a strong chance of being a Darkfriend. See the well put-together theory at Theoryland if you don't believe me.

 

As for being a Forsaken, that is virtually impossible. To kill and replace Sorilea to take the top dog spot in the Wise Ones without notice is pretty much ludicrous. To show up and rise through the ranks of Wise Ones is impossible. She's older than all the other Wise Ones, supposedly. She's always been there. Ji'e'toh is too big of a wall to breach, especially for people like the Forsaken. Even if we couldn't systematically eliminate every single Forsaken other than Demandred and Moridin (who don't channel saidar as far as I know) it's completely outside the realm of possibility.

 

Sorilea has had a long time to practice using the power too, even if the amount she can channel hasn't increased. Also, Daigian was the weakest Aes Sedai in terms of power, but was skilled and a quick study anyway. Ability to learn weaves isn't directly correlated to strength in the Power.

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There's plenty of tidbits laying about that, put together, could lead one to believe that Sorilea has a strong chance of being a Darkfriend. See the well put-together theory at Theoryland if you don't believe me.

 

As for being a Forsaken, that is virtually impossible. To kill and replace Sorilea to take the top dog spot in the Wise Ones without notice is pretty much ludicrous. To show up and rise through the ranks of Wise Ones is impossible. She's older than all the other Wise Ones, supposedly. She's always been there. Ji'e'toh is too big of a wall to breach, especially for people like the Forsaken. Even if we couldn't systematically eliminate every single Forsaken other than Demandred and Moridin (who don't channel saidar as far as I know) it's completely outside the realm of possibility.

 

Sorilea has had a long time to practice using the power too, even if the amount she can channel hasn't increased. Also, Daigian was the weakest Aes Sedai in terms of power, but was skilled and a quick study anyway. Ability to learn weaves isn't directly correlated to strength in the Power.

 

 

Sounds like a case of massive paranoia. Too much free time in you guys hand, I tell ya.

 

 

P.S: 99% of well put-together theories never come true because people making these theories are not the one writing the books. WOT doesn't have many OMG moments (very very few really) but if one is too believe these well-put theories, last two books are going to have OMG on every page.

Edited by jdbond
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This is definitely not a wacky theory. Terez puts a good case together on theoryland, about why its likely her.

 

The Chapter "A Box Opens" was presumably to show us where Cadsuane had hid the box that hid the Domination Bands, however I believe there was a second purpose. It might also have been the means by which BS was dropping a veiled hint that Sorilea might have been responsible for disabling the weaves. Cadsuane makes mention throughout the first part of the book about how quick of a learner she is. Yes, Bair was with her, but its more likely to be Sorilea based on evidence from the text.

 

The other theories were that Elza was shown how to disable it or did it herself and that Shaidar Haran somehow disabled it. First it seems ridiculous that she would be able to do so by herself considering the weave was inverted. If she was shown how to do it, the likely suspect would be Sorilea since she was the only who could see how to disable it (Bair can't channel).

 

Its also ridiculous to presume that Shaidar Haran did it, because we have no reason to believe he has power over weaves or channeling unless it comes from a darkfriend channeler.

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There is plenty of evidence that Sorilea is a darkfriend. Here is a great link to a huge article on it: http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=133&theo=2714

 

Here is a snippet from the above link:

The trunk was a decoy; she kept some gold and other relatively worthless items in it. Her most precious possessions she either wore–in the form of her ter'angreal ornaments–or kept locked in a dingy-looking document box that sat on her mirror stand. Of worn oak, the stain uneven, the box had enough dings and dents to look used–but wasn't so shabby as to be out of place with her other things. As Sorilea closed the door behind the three of them, Cadsuane disarmed the box's traps.

 

It was strange to her how few Aes Sedai learned to innovate with the One Power. They memorized time-tested and traditional weaves, but gave barely a thought for what else they could do. True, experimenting with the One Power could be disastrous, but many simple extrapolations could be made without danger. Her weave for this box was one such. Until recently, she'd used a standard weave of Fire, Spirit and Air to destroy any documents in the box if an intruder opened it. Effective, if a bit unimaginative.

 

Her new weave was much more versatile. It didn't destroy the items in the box–Cadsuane wasn't certain if they could be destroyed. Instead, the weaves –inverted to be invisible –sprang out in twisting threads of Air and captured anyone in the room when the box was opened. Then another weave set out a large sound, imitating a hundred trumpets playing while lights flashed in the air to give the alarm. The weaves would also go off if anyone opened the box, moved it, or barely touched it with the most delicate thread of the One Power.

 

...

 

"This is unsettling to see," Sorilea said. "If one of the Shadowsouled, or even one of the Seanchan, captured him with this...

 

"Light protect us all," Bair whispered.

 

"And the people who have these are the same people with whom al'Thor wishes to make peace?" Sorilea shook her head. "Creation of these abominations alone should warrant a blood feud. I heard that there were others like it. What of those?"

 

"Stored elsewhere," Cadsuane said, shutting the lid. "Along with the female a'dam we took. Some acquaintances of mine–Aes Sedai who have retired from the world–are testing them trying to discover their weakness." They also had Callandor. Cadsuane was loath to let it out of her sight, but she felt that the sword still held secrets that could be teased out.

 

 

It would seem rather strange indeed for Sorilea to call in the debt that Cadsuane owes her for a small curiosity such as this one. Not only does she ask to see the Domination Band, but she asks Cadsuane about where the others are being held. And then, the very next day, the Semirhage is freed and given the collar to capture Rand. That this could be coincidence stretches credulity.

 

Brandon was asked on the book tour how it was that Elza learned the weaves to disarm Cadsuane's trap:

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Mysterious Galaxy, San Diego 15 November 2009 - Freelancer reporting

 

Q. How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?

 

A. Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.

 

Brandon seems to imply here that Shaidar Haran taught her the weaves, but he very specifically does not actually say that (besides the fact that this is at least slightly paraphrased). How would Shaidar Haran know a weave that Cadsuane invented anyway? How could Shaidar Haran teach weaves to someone? He can't channel, or if he can, it's not saidar. What chance, that Rand would be captured the very day after Sorilea observed Cadsuane disarming the trap? Bair cannot channel, so it had to be Sorilea.

 

I assume that Elza was involved for one of two reasons: either she was chosen because she was more expendable, and less of a risk in terms of exposure, or she was chosen because the disarming was something that Sorilea is not quite strong enough to do, since she is so weak in the Power.

 

Cadsuane just happened to be visiting the Wise Ones at the time that Rand was captured.

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Sounds like a case of massive paranoia. Too much free time in you guys hand, I tell ya.

 

 

P.S: 99% of well put-together theories never come true because people making these theories are not the one writing the books. WOT doesn't have many OMG moments (very very few really) but if one is too believe these well-put theories, last two books are going to have OMG on every page.

I didn't think there was much evidence until I actually read the theory. A lot of small things add up. Before I read it I thought 'no way' but now I'm actually 50/50.

 

I wouldn't say that 99% of well thought out theories are false. The percentage of false theories might be 99% if you include the really crackpot ones here (and there are a lot of those). Also, Jason's review mentioned something about visions and prophecies coming to pass extremely frequently in ToM, and I'd imagine AMoL would have at least as much of it if not more so. I take that to mean we prove or disprove a fair number of theories (which is something like an OMG moment) in less than 3 weeks from now.

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Sounds like a case of massive paranoia. Too much free time in you guys hand, I tell ya.

 

 

P.S: 99% of well put-together theories never come true because people making these theories are not the one writing the books. WOT doesn't have many OMG moments (very very few really) but if one is too believe these well-put theories, last two books are going to have OMG on every page.

I didn't think there was much evidence until I actually read the theory. A lot of small things add up. Before I read it I thought 'no way' but now I'm actually 50/50.

 

 

 

 

There are no small things. There is one paragraph where Sorilea was present when Cadsuane undid the trap. Ofcourse, once you convince yourself that Sorilea is a DF, you will go back and read every line she is present in and suddenly find out that they all were dropping hints here and there.

 

Someone took down all three Aes Sedai and freed Semirhage. Who could that be? Elza is sad excuse for Aes Sedai, Sorilea is even worse and all three Aes Sedai were holding Saidar. So who overpowered them?

 

And the given paragraph is too obvious to be considered just dropping hints. If SH has no abilities, how exactly did he shield Messana? I also would like to venture that it was he who took down all three Aes Sedai. Not sure how but there cannot be anyone else.

 

 

P.S: I am not saying it cannot come true but most well put theories have such flimsy evidence that unless it's in the book, I am not going burn my neurons thinking about them.

Edited by jdbond
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There is plenty of evidence that Sorilea is a darkfriend. Here is a great link to a huge article on it: http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=133&theo=2714

 

Here is a snippet from the above link:

The trunk was a decoy; she kept some gold and other relatively worthless items in it. Her most precious possessions she either wore–in the form of her ter'angreal ornaments–or kept locked in a dingy-looking document box that sat on her mirror stand. Of worn oak, the stain uneven, the box had enough dings and dents to look used–but wasn't so shabby as to be out of place with her other things. As Sorilea closed the door behind the three of them, Cadsuane disarmed the box's traps.

 

It was strange to her how few Aes Sedai learned to innovate with the One Power. They memorized time-tested and traditional weaves, but gave barely a thought for what else they could do. True, experimenting with the One Power could be disastrous, but many simple extrapolations could be made without danger. Her weave for this box was one such. Until recently, she'd used a standard weave of Fire, Spirit and Air to destroy any documents in the box if an intruder opened it. Effective, if a bit unimaginative.

 

Her new weave was much more versatile. It didn't destroy the items in the box–Cadsuane wasn't certain if they could be destroyed. Instead, the weaves –inverted to be invisible –sprang out in twisting threads of Air and captured anyone in the room when the box was opened. Then another weave set out a large sound, imitating a hundred trumpets playing while lights flashed in the air to give the alarm. The weaves would also go off if anyone opened the box, moved it, or barely touched it with the most delicate thread of the One Power.

 

...

 

"This is unsettling to see," Sorilea said. "If one of the Shadowsouled, or even one of the Seanchan, captured him with this...

 

"Light protect us all," Bair whispered.

 

"And the people who have these are the same people with whom al'Thor wishes to make peace?" Sorilea shook her head. "Creation of these abominations alone should warrant a blood feud. I heard that there were others like it. What of those?"

 

"Stored elsewhere," Cadsuane said, shutting the lid. "Along with the female a'dam we took. Some acquaintances of mine–Aes Sedai who have retired from the world–are testing them trying to discover their weakness." They also had Callandor. Cadsuane was loath to let it out of her sight, but she felt that the sword still held secrets that could be teased out.

 

 

It would seem rather strange indeed for Sorilea to call in the debt that Cadsuane owes her for a small curiosity such as this one. Not only does she ask to see the Domination Band, but she asks Cadsuane about where the others are being held. And then, the very next day, the Semirhage is freed and given the collar to capture Rand. That this could be coincidence stretches credulity.

 

Brandon was asked on the book tour how it was that Elza learned the weaves to disarm Cadsuane's trap:

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Mysterious Galaxy, San Diego 15 November 2009 - Freelancer reporting

 

Q. How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?

 

A. Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.

 

Brandon seems to imply here that Shaidar Haran taught her the weaves, but he very specifically does not actually say that (besides the fact that this is at least slightly paraphrased). How would Shaidar Haran know a weave that Cadsuane invented anyway? How could Shaidar Haran teach weaves to someone? He can't channel, or if he can, it's not saidar. What chance, that Rand would be captured the very day after Sorilea observed Cadsuane disarming the trap? Bair cannot channel, so it had to be Sorilea.

 

I assume that Elza was involved for one of two reasons: either she was chosen because she was more expendable, and less of a risk in terms of exposure, or she was chosen because the disarming was something that Sorilea is not quite strong enough to do, since she is so weak in the Power.

 

Cadsuane just happened to be visiting the Wise Ones at the time that Rand was captured.

 

Sounds like Cadsuane is a DF. Oh wait..;)

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P.S: I am not saying it cannot come true but most well put theories have such flimsy evidence that unless it's in the book, I am not going burn my neurons thinking about them.

 

You mean like the part in the book where SH incapacitates the three Aes Sedai so Semirhage and Elza can gain access to Rand's room? Oh wait.

 

Someone took down all three Aes Sedai and freed Semirhage. Who could that be? Elza is sad excuse for Aes Sedai, Sorilea is even worse and all three Aes Sedai were holding Saidar. So who overpowered them?

Elza is a fairly capable AS actually. She killed Dashiva and per Brandon's quote has been taught several nasty things by SH. I think those 2 alone are plenty of evidence to point towards her taking care of 3 AS who had NO reason to suspect her. A precedent of Sorilea showing other AS complicated weaves that she was unable to perform is given when she teaches Cadsuane Traveling. Sorilea teaching Elza Cadsuane's wards is by no means a large stretch of one's imagination.

 

P.S. The Compulsion Semirhage removes from Elza is from Rand (and it is on all of the other AS that swore fealty to him) *and/OR* Verin from her time interrogating all of said AS. That last bit hasn't been brought up yet, but it may clear up some confusion as to who would have compulsed her.

Edited by Gor
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P.S: I am not saying it cannot come true but most well put theories have such flimsy evidence that unless it's in the book, I am not going burn my neurons thinking about them.

 

You mean like the part in the book where SH incapacitates the three Aes Sedai so Semirhage and Elza can gain access to Rand's room? Oh wait.

 

Someone took down all three Aes Sedai and freed Semirhage. Who could that be? Elza is sad excuse for Aes Sedai, Sorilea is even worse and all three Aes Sedai were holding Saidar. So who overpowered them?

Elza is a fairly capable AS actually. She killed Dashiva and per Brandon's quote has been taught several nasty things by SH. I think those 2 alone are plenty of evidence to point towards her taking care of 3 AS who had NO reason to suspect her. A precedent of Sorilea showing other AS complicated weaves that she was unable to perform is given when she teaches Cadsuane Traveling. Sorilea teaching Elza Cadsuane's wards is by no means a large stretch of one's imagination.

 

P.S. The Compulsion Semirhage removes from Elza is from Rand (and it is on all of the other AS that swore fealty to him) *and/OR* Verin from her time interrogating all of said AS. That last bit hasn't been brought up yet, but it may clear up some confusion as to who would have compulsed her.

 

1) SH incapacitates three Aes Sedai "shielding" Semirhage. I am curious to know how Elza can achieve such feat...Did Sorilea teach her?

2) I guess you must be reading a different book. Elza was part of a "circle" and the Ash'man in that circle was holding Callandor.

 

Not all "nasty" weaves require strength in one power but shielding someone can be done only ONE way. Not Rand and Not even Grandeal in latest book has tried this fancy nasty way of over taking three Aes Sedai who already were embracing one power.

 

Traveling is not a complicated weave at all! I am sure you found the line in book but I didn't. It was just a lost art and requires certain amount of strength in one Power. What Nynaneve does is complicated. What Grandel does is complicated. Keeping someone else's gateway open is complicated. Traveling isn't.

 

 

P.S: I wonder how SH can teach anyone anything, right? Who is next then? Perrin teaching balefire to Asha'man?

Edited by jdbond
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Compulsion is an actual weave. Oath Rod doesn't put compulsion on you. Taking oath does nothing like that either. Rand couldn't simply have put compulsion on Elza, not there is any indication he knows how. I don't know who put compulsion on Elza. Could be Verin, could be the DF Semirhage. Could very well be Cadusane. I wonder why she is not the "prime" suspect?

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I thought it was outright stated that Verin used her patch-work Compulsion clone to convince Elza (whom she knew to be BA) that "the Dragon has to survive until the Last Battle (so that the Dark One can kill him, preumably.)" Don't have the time to look up the quotes, but IIRC this wasn't hidden or anything, it was either shown or summarized rather directly.

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1) SH incapacitates three Aes Sedai "shielding" Semirhage. I am curious to know how Elza can achieve such feat...Did Sorilea teach her?

 

Brandon Sanderson: Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.

 

SH himself may not have taught her weaves but someone did under his instruction.

 

2) I guess you must be reading a different book. Elza was part of a "circle" and the Ash'man in that circle was holding Callandor.

She was still melding the flows. I'm not saying she is the best AS ever, but she is far from a "sad excuse" of one. She is capable and more importantly knowledgeable of "rarely known weaves."

 

When you try to be smartass, try picking some facts first. Not all "nasty" weaves require strength in one power but sheilding someone can be done only ONE way. Not Rand and Not even Grandeal in lastest book has tried this fancy nasty way of over taking three Aes Sedai who already were embracing one power.

Hmm, I believe you were the first smartass in this thread, but you are right - there is no reason to be one. Again, Elza should have been able to incapacitate them very easily; they are focused on holding a shield and not on defending themselves - especially not from a fellow AS that has sworn fealty to Rand. But even so, it doesn't matter. Even if SH incapacitated the 3 AS, which I am not ruling out (in fact there is some evidence for it given the lack of a large amount of saidar being used to do it), it doesn't change that Elza had the domination band in her possession and was most likely taught the weaves to disable the wards by someone who knew them (Sorilea).

Edited by Gor
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I thought it was outright stated that Verin used her patch-work Compulsion clone to convince Elza (whom she knew to be BA) that "the Dragon has to survive until the Last Battle (so that the Dark One can kill him, preumably.)" Don't have the time to look up the quotes, but IIRC this wasn't hidden or anything, it was either shown or summarized rather directly.

You are quite right:

 

"In her captivity among the Aiel tents at Cairhien it had come to her that it was paramount for the Dragon Reborn to reach the Last Battle. It had suddenly become so blindingly obvious that it astounded her she had not seen it before." (Elza's pov in Winter's Heart in CH. 35).

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Could very well be Cadusane. I wonder why she is not the "prime" suspect?

Because we have too many povs from her. Verin is the only other person (I can think of off the top of my head) with several povs who didn't provide much evidence (aside from the infamous lie to Lord Ingtar) that she was Black. I don't think we've had any lies from Cadsuane and most of her povs demonstrate her want for Rand to succeed. The only Darkfriends I can think of that have been adamant about Rand living are Elza (compulsed), Verin (double agent for the light), and Moridin (connected to Rand via balefire streams).

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SH is very much capable of destroying weaves; I forget which book its from, but I remembered that Graendal was sitting in her room when a gong like sound resounded to warn her that she had a visitor. she was very much surprised that anyone in this age still possessed such decorum, so she channeled and sounded it too, which promptly revealed the entrance of the new lanfear and Mogi. I recall that Graendal tried to ensnare both of them until SH entered and all weaves disappeared along with the weaves of compulsion on the colorful birds that was supposed to make them sing. I was pretty surprised.

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There's plenty of tidbits laying about that, put together, could lead one to believe that Sorilea has a strong chance of being a Darkfriend. See the well put-together theory at Theoryland if you don't believe me.

 

I've read it. Honestly, I find it utterly unconvincing. The evidence is only evidence if you pretty much buy the idea that she's a DF in the first place, and sometimes not even then. Why Sorilea deciding that Wise Ones could use the Power to aid Rand is supposed to be helpful to the Shadow isn't explained at all, for instance. We're just seemingly supposed to think that's obvious. All those "tidbits" prove is that Sorilea is one tough and determined old lady and you mess with her at your peril, and that she, to all appearances, means to keep the Car'a'carn alive. But then we already knew that. The only piece of potential evidence in all that is the whole thing where she gets a look at the weaves guarding the Domination Band, and that's equivocal at best. Correlation ain't causation, curiosity about Domination Bands (very direct and deadly threats to the entire world, and thus the Aiel, should one snare Rand) and the precautions taken to keep them safe isn't a crime, and mere coincidence isn't even remotely conclusive. And, it's just as likely to be a red herring in the mold of the many other red herrings strewn throughout the books (Taimandred and Olver anyone?).

Edited by didymos
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1) SH incapacitates three Aes Sedai "shielding" Semirhage. I am curious to know how Elza can achieve such feat...Did Sorilea teach her?

 

Brandon Sanderson: Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.

 

SH himself may not have taught her weaves but someone did under his instruction.

 

2) I guess you must be reading a different book. Elza was part of a "circle" and the Ash'man in that circle was holding Callandor.

She was still melding the flows. I'm not saying she is the best AS ever, but she is far from a "sad excuse" from one. She is capable and more importantly knowledgeable of "rarely known weaves."

 

When you try to be smartass, try picking some facts first. Not all "nasty" weaves require strength in one power but sheilding someone can be done only ONE way. Not Rand and Not even Grandeal in lastest book has tried this fancy nasty way of over taking three Aes Sedai who already were embracing one power.

Hmm, I believe you were the first smartass in this thread, but you are right - there is no reason to be one. Again, Elza should have been able to incapacitate them very easily; they are focused on holding a shield and not on defending themselves - especially not from a fellow AS that has sworn fealty to Rand. But even so, it doesn't matter. Even if SH incapacitated the 3 AS, which I am not ruling out (in fact there is some evidence for it given the lack of a large amount of saidar being used to do it), it doesn't change that Elza had the domination band in her possession and was most likely taught the weaves to disable the wards by someone who knew them (Sorilea).

 

And what exactly are those "rare" weaves? Obviously they either require TP or even forsaken don't know about it (or Rand), making them not only rare but unheard of! And how can anyone teach Elza a rare weave under SH's instruction unless that person is one of the forsaken or something? If SH cannot channel, the person teaching Elza that rare weave must know it in first place, right? So Sorilea must knows rare weaves that Rand, Grandael or Moghy don't know about?

 

Also I didn't realize that it required unparalleled skill to create fireball.

 

 

I give up. You are right. Elza was unbelievably skilled especially with all those rare nasty weaves though she didn't bother to use one of them when Rand killed Semirhage. She just ran for her life. Peace.

Edited by jdbond
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There's plenty of tidbits laying about that, put together, could lead one to believe that Sorilea has a strong chance of being a Darkfriend. See the well put-together theory at Theoryland if you don't believe me.

 

I've read it. Honestly, I find it utterly unconvincing. The evidence is only evidence if you pretty much buy the idea that she's a DF in the first place, and sometimes not even then. Why Sorilea deciding that Wise Ones could use the Power to aid Rand is supposed to be helpful to the Shadow isn't explained at all, for instance. We're just seemingly supposed to think that's obvious. All those "tidbits" prove is that Sorilea is one tough and determined old lady and you mess with her at your peril, and that she, to all appearances, means to keep the Car'a'carn alive. But then we already knew that. The only piece of potential evidence in all that is the whole thing where she gets a look at the weaves guarding the Domination Band, and that's equivocal at best. Correlation ain't causation, curiosity about Domination Bands (very direct and deadly threats to the entire world, and thus the Aiel, should one snare Rand) and the precautions taken to keep them safe isn't a crime, and mere coincidence isn't even remotely conclusive. And, it's just as likely to be a red herring in the mold of the many other red herrings strewn throughout the books (Taimandred and Olver anyone?).

 

 

 

Brilliant. You read my mind. Now be prepared to be dazzled by nasty rare weaves of Elza;)

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SH is very much capable of destroying weaves; I forget which book its from, but I remembered that Graendal was sitting in her room when a gong like sound resounded to warn her that she had a visitor. she was very much surprised that anyone in this age still possessed such decorum, so she channeled and sounded it too, which promptly revealed the entrance of the new lanfear and Mogi. I recall that Graendal tried to ensnare both of them until SH entered and all weaves disappeared along with the weaves of compulsion on the colorful birds that was supposed to make them sing. I was pretty surprised.

 

 

Or SH shielding Aran'gar or Messana..or was it Moghi;)

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And what exactly are those "rare" weaves? Obviously they either require TP or even forsaken don't know about it (or Rand), making them not only rare but unheard of! And how can anyone teach Elza a rare weave under SH's instruction unless that person is one of the forsaken or something? is Sh cannot channel, the person teaching Elza that rare weave must know it in first place? So Sorilea knows rare weaves that Rand, Grandael or even Moghy don't know about?

The rare weaves could have been what was used to incapacitate the 3 AS. As for the rest, you must just be baiting me because none of what you said could be extrapolated from what I said. I clarified that I did not think Elza was "unparralleled" but just that she was capable and knowledgeable (and that with some help from *someone*). As to who taught her, I'm not even going to bother guessing and you shouldn't either - it is a quote from Brandon. She was taught them. Shaidar Haran was involved somehow. Done. Move on.

 

As for why she didn't react to Rand? Semirhage barely got out a full sentence before being obliterated. A sentence that mentions something called the True Power. We don't even know if Elza knows what that is, no kidding she ran.

 

I'm still not even sure why you are so hung up on the rare nasty weaves bit. It doesn't matter who incapacitated the 3 AS. Elza had the domination band. SH would have no way of knowing how to get past Cadsuane's wards (onscreen at least). Sorilea does, and if she is a darkfriend she could have easily taught Elza how.

 

The red herring is Cadsuane not even considering that Sorilea would be a DF or a suspect in who got past her wards.

Edited by Gor
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