North and East must be as one, South and West must be as one

[Crael123]

So. everybody thinks that this answer means the seanchan and rand must ally. but where in the prophesy does it say they have to be as one TOTAL? the seanchan hold the south and west, and it is as one. rand holds the north and east. what if this is all that must be done? what if an alliance is not necessary for the survival of the world? what do you guys think

[Barid Bel Medar]

So. everybody thinks that this answer means the seanchan and rand must ally. but where in the prophesy does it say they have to be as one TOTAL? the seanchan hold the south and west, and it is as one. rand holds the north and east. what if this is all that must be done? what if an alliance is not necessary for the survival of the world? what do you guys think

 

The Prophecy says "The North and East must be one. The South and West must be one. The two must be one"

[ka243]

Well... the next part of the prophecy is that the TWO must be as one. So probably rand holding the north and east, the seanchan holding the west and south and an alliance between the two. That's the most popular interpretation I think, even though that's not what Rand's own interpretation is at this point. I'm guessing he will start to understand this prophecy better in the next book.

[Barid Bel Medar]

There are actually two versions of this.

 

The first is in the Karatheon Cycle

 

The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south.

 

 

The other is the Aelfinns answer to Rand.

“The north and east must be as one. The west and south must be as one. The two must be as one.” (Knife of Dreams, News For the Dragon).

 

So i think you were talking about the Karatheon Cycle one. Which would make it a very good point. However, the Finns answer seems pretty straight forward. That is if it indeed refers to the Seanchan at all.

[FarShainMael]

Yes, but which two? The 'two' in question may be something unrelated to geography, such as saidin/saidar.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yes, but which two? The 'two' in question may be something unrelated to geography, such as saidin/saidar.

 

 

That sounds stupid. They are talking about the geography then just throw in saidar/saidin? It doesnt make sense.

 

It is perfectly clear, N/E S/W must be one, the two of them must be one.

 

The senchan on one side, DR on the other. They make an alliance.

 

Sorry, but I think your trying to overcomplicate everything, much like the Moiraine/Lanfear merging.

[FarShainMael]

What gets me is, why didn't the Aelfinn just say 'unify the people'? They made it complicated!

 

Furthermore, the answer doesn't stop there. What Rand actually asked them was, how does he win the Last Battle and survive. The Aelfinn said:

 

"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/aelfinn.html

 

This answer has four components. It seems clear that the first two and the last are not connected to each other. I think we should at least consider the possibility that 'the two must be as one' may be independent of the other three components.

 

 

 

(It's all right, I just like playing with the new smilies.)

[Barid Bel Medar]

What gets me is, why didn't the Aelfinn just say 'unify the people'? They made it complicated!

 

Furthermore, the answer doesn't stop there. What Rand actually asked them was, how does he win the Last Battle and survive. The Aelfinn said:

 

"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/aelfinn.html

 

This answer has four components. It seems clear that the first two and the last are not connected to each other. I think we should at least consider the possibility that 'the two must be as one' may be independent of the other three components.

 

 

 

(It's all right, I just like playing with the new smilies.)

Mmmm, well then. It seems I am mistaken.

 

I thought the "live/die" was a part of another question.

 

While im still thinking that it is related to the east/west etc.. your point does make sense.

 

Got me again it seems

 

[FarShainMael]

 

Some have suggested (I can't remember right now who) that the bit about 'if you would live, you must die' was Rand's third answer; that the Aelfinn treated his question 'how do I win the Last Battle AND survive' as two separate questions. (Tricky snakes! )

 

Otherwise, we have no idea what his third question, and answer, actually were.

 

But I digress.

[Vermillion]

Maybe the two must be one is LTT and Rand or maybe it means the lands... maybe both.

[Demiandre]

Moridin/Rand?

Saidin/Saidar?

Seanchan/Westlanders?

Men/Women? (Unbelievable)

 

For me, it is only one prophecy. The Seanchan will bind the south and west, Rand will unify the north and east, and thr two must be as one. As soon as this is achieved, they are (more or less) prepared for Tarmon Gai'Don and then, if Rand want to live, he must die. (Which won't happen if the two are not as one)

 

Edit : I have been thinking a second ago : what about Tuon collaring Rand? They would be as one a Rand would kneel to the Crystal Throne, and Tuon using the Domination Band alone as Empress, Rand will be able to control her, thus binding the Nine Moons to his will.

[Val Mickey]

Alert : Loony theory ahead. Proceed with caution.

 

 

When Mierin and Beidomon drilled a hole in the DO's prison, the hole was made in the Pattern.

 

Therefore, the best patching material would be the Pattern itself.

 

Hmmm... Lets say that might work. How would one go about doing that?

 

RJ rarely explains the method behind any weaves. It's usually 'Fire and Spirit woven just so, Earth and Water woven in a ...'

 

So it struck me as odd why he would even explain that. Men fold the Pattern, and make a hole. Women make a sameness in the Pattern.

 

If you add and modify this, would it be possible to say, fold the Pattern, then make a sameness at the two ends? It would be like suturing the Pattern.

 

Thus, if Rand sutures the North to the East, and the South to the West (relative to Shayol Ghul) and then the two halves together, we would have a four layer Pattern fold over the Bore. The first two stitches would make a circle into a line, and the third would obliterate it.

Probably long enough for the Pattern to recover.

 

Since Traveling was introduced in Books 5 and 6, and is an ongoing principle, I could claim this is the BUT.

 

Also this is probably where Rand will use Callandor in a circle.

[Demiandre]

You know what? I don't find it so loony.

 

It's true that the Pattern is the Dark One prison. The One Power drive the wheel that spin the thread of all lives, that make the Pattern. Saidin is a brutal force that bend, and saidar the contrary. And we indeed see it through Travelling and how it differs between male and female woving it. It could very well be the key to sealing the Dark One. But how to do it without touching the DO?

 

And to finish, I like your theory, but don't believe it can be applied to this prophecy.

[Val Mickey]

That's the point. Nothing need touch him. You put four layers of the Pattern. Permanently. The top layer heals, and business as usual.

[FarShainMael]

Neat!

[Demiandre]

But will the Dark One stay still, while he is being sealed away? The Dark One can interfere more or less on the Pattern. I don't see him saying :

 

"oh no! They surprised me. I can do nothing more. S**t I'm trapped again...." (huh? It takes a lot of time...) *the Dark One then turns toward the three person with Callandor*

"No Rand. That's not the way. Don't touch me. Then, a flow of Spirit. Now, a touch of Earth and then Fire to bridge it all. Yes that's it. You did it! Well. See ya next turning, Dragon!" (I didn't put it all caps lock. Would have been a bit too much :) )

[Crael123]

actually really like that theory...

[Brown Ajah]

Yes, but which two? The 'two' in question may be something unrelated to geography, such as saidin/saidar.

 

 

That sounds stupid. They are talking about the geography then just throw in saidar/saidin? It doesnt make sense.

 

It is perfectly clear, N/E S/W must be one, the two of them must be one.

 

The senchan on one side, DR on the other. They make an alliance.

 

Sorry, but I think your trying to overcomplicate everything, much like the Moiraine/Lanfear merging.

 

I agree, I think it's pretty clear that it's related to geography considering it clearly references the four prime geographical directions. I feel like this has been alluded to throughout the last books (I'm not expecting a curve ball here myself).

[FarShainMael]

But will the Dark One stay still, while he is being sealed away?

 

No problem. Send in Fain to distract the DO while Rand does what is necessary!

 

Whatever that is..

[Demiandre]

Distract? I now have a weird image of Fain dancing the sa'sara to the DO, while Rand is sealing it away... thx MrsWiki...

[FarShainMael]

I have just spat tea all over the keyboard!!

 

[Demiandre]

Sorry for that. But that's your fault in the first place^^

[Val Mickey]

Distract? I now have a weird image of Fain dancing the sa'sara to the DO, while Rand is sealing it away... thx MrsWiki...

 

LMAO!

 

Thanks guys, I'll give my theory as my official entry for the BUT.

[FarShainMael]

Good luck with that!

[Demiandre]

What means LMAO?