Oath Rod and the Kin

[Thanatos]

Hey all.

 

Just re-reading Winters Heart today, and I got a thought that I am sure has come up in the past.

 

What would happen if say, Aloisia, the oldest of the Kin at over 600 years old, were to swear on the Oath Rod?  Would she drop dead, as Elayne suggests, or would she just live on, and then die shortly after.

 

Just curious, because I am trying to find a reason to Egwenes decision to keep the 3 Oathes.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Egwene, especially the last 4 books, but i think her idea to keep the oathes is ludicrous.

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

If I understand it correctly, the reason that the life of a channeler is shortened by taking multiple Oaths is that a certain amount of stress is imposed on the body by the process.  The cumulative effect of that stress over time causes premature (for a channeler) aging and death.  If that is correct, then if someone like Aloisia or Alivia were to swear on the Oath Rod, then he or she would not simply drop dead, but would die a proportionally "early" time later.

 

Egwene wants to keep the Oaths because she believes that they are at the heart of being Aes Sedai.  Which is true, since Aes Sedai (in general) are people who must be compelled to do the right thing for the protection of others.

 

(OK, maybe that last part was a little over the top ... but only a little)

[Durinax]

If I understand it correctly, the reason that the life of a channeler is shortened by taking multiple Oaths is that a certain amount of stress is imposed on the body by the process.  The cumulative effect of that stress over time causes premature (for a channeler) aging and death.  If that is correct, then if someone like Aloisia or Alivia were to swear on the Oath Rod, then he or she would not simply drop dead, but would die a proportionally "early" time later.

 

Egwene wants to keep the Oaths because she believes that they are at the heart of being Aes Sedai.  Which is true, since Aes Sedai (in general) are people who must be compelled to do the right thing for the protection of others.

 

(OK, maybe that last part was a little over the top ... but only a little)

isnt it because it validates what an AS says to be the 'truth' and everyone will accept it even if they are searching for every hidden meaning in a simple yes or no.

Which is foolish. They should earn the right to be respected and trusted

[DemandredFO]

Does anyone really know what would happen in a 612 year old.  We know that the binder robs you of half your age more or less, but at that age would still divide remaining years in half or kill you immediately?  I don't know the answer.

[shrubgoddess]

So what is the cumulative effect on Aes Sedai aging and premature death to take, untake, and retake the oaths many times, as Egwene and the Sitters did in tGS?

[Salome]

Personally I think the way forward is to get yourself stilled, return back to be in your early 20's, get an ashaman to heal you and then retake the oaths again, then rinse and repeat until insane (or really really old).

[Fains nose]

I dont think any of the kin will be binded on the oath rod because none of them will bother coming Aes Sedai; why would they? The Kin are more aes sedai than the aes sedai, in that they serve their community through healing, dispute resolution etc. They also command genuine respect, something the aes sedai dont. Not to mention the live longer, have more numbers, are more talented in some aspects of the power, and that from what we have seen, they are generaly more capable than average Aes Sedai (look at Alise, Reanne). I think Egwenes plan to tie all female channelers to the white tower will fail, because aes sedai arent the best. The Aiel wise ones are unquestionably better, the Kin are arguably better, female channelers including Aes Sedai would have a lot to gain by being tied (subordinate) to the wise ones, while they gain very little and lose a lot by being tied (subordinate) to the tower.

[Ewandrina]

I think the oaths are stupid she should just ditch them, the Black Ajah have found a way around them anyway so assuming AS are held to them is more dangorous than not having them at all

[MikeRiley]

I think Egwenes plan to tie all female channelers to the white tower will fail, because aes sedai arent the best. The Aiel wise ones are unquestionably better, the Kin are arguably better, female channelers including Aes Sedai would have a lot to gain by being tied (subordinate) to the wise ones, while they gain very little and lose a lot by being tied (subordinate) to the tower.

 

I wouldn't discount her abilities so easily. Egwene has studied with the Wise Ones and she reflects on how they are respected without the oaths. She also knows the windfinders don't need oaths, nor does the Kin. She won't try to force them to become Aes Sedai - she knows that would be impossible - but she would want them to be connected in some way. She mentions to somebody about the possibility of an Aes Sedai removing their oaths and then retiring into the Kin to live out the rest of their life. I can see the Wise Ones training the novices for the White Tower and the tower taking over once they're accepted, but who knows. To expand on this thought, Egwene understands how the Wise Ones' training changed her and she knows that it's more to do with discipline than it is to do with the One Power itself - a much harsher version of what the novices already go through.

 

She won't allow the Kin to take the three oaths, though. Not with the possibility that they might drop dead. This will be something that will go unanswered except maybe in the encyclopedia. The risk would be too great with a 50/50 shot of life or death.

[Harbin]

I think Egwenes plan to tie all female channelers to the white tower will fail, because aes sedai arent the best. The Aiel wise ones are unquestionably better, the Kin are arguably better, female channelers including Aes Sedai would have a lot to gain by being tied (subordinate) to the wise ones, while they gain very little and lose a lot by being tied (subordinate) to the tower.

 

This is not true. The Wise Ones may know things that Aes Sedai do not but lack knowledge in other area (linking before Egwene taught them, Healing which is surprising). The Kin is essentially a bunch of wannebe Aes Sedai that failed in their studies. Ok, some of them are good (Sumeko, Reanne, as should be expected since failing a one chance only exam does not mean you're bad), but most of them are not even Accepted level (this is the definition of the Kin). The Aes Sedai are the group of channelers with the most general knowledge about the power, their weakness being that they think they are the best in every area which is obviously not true. Other channelers are highly specialized (Windfinders, the Kin), and the Wise Ones do not really care about the power. All in all, the Aes Sedai is the only group that shows a wide variety of use of the power, the other groups show only very basic use (even the Seanchan) with just straightforward use of the 5 powers and the occasionnal complex weave thrown here or there.

[Loophole]

If an aes sedai released all oaths but was already very old as far as they go, for example cads age, do you think their age limit would increase dramatically?

 

I do not, i see it as stress on the body and the damage is already done. Following this though, do you think that Siuan and Leane are really younger and will live longer or do they just appear younger?

[Durinax]

side note off of loopholes post:

 

Do you think leane and Suian will have to swear the oaths again?

[MikeRiley]

If an aes sedai released all oaths but was already very old as far as they go, for example cads age, do you think their age limit would increase dramatically?

 

I do not, i see it as stress on the body and the damage is already done. Following this though, do you think that Siuan and Leane are really younger and will live longer or do they just appear younger?

 

The ageless appearance effects of the oaths on their body would be removed and they would revert back to the appearance that they would have been had they been allowed to slow normally. This is why Siuan and Leane both appear to be younger than they are. They aren't really but they'll have the long life and appearance associated with unbound channelers.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Could be the way for it to go. Swear on oath rod, Be an active Aes Sedai for like seventy years or such, out in the field. Remove oaths. Become an inactive Aes Sedai that would be used for research or adminstration duties. In times of need retake oaths and become active again.

[Loophole]

If an aes sedai released all oaths but was already very old as far as they go, for example cads age, do you think their age limit would increase dramatically?

 

I do not, i see it as stress on the body and the damage is already done. Following this though, do you think that Siuan and Leane are really younger and will live longer or do they just appear younger?

 

The ageless appearance effects of the oaths on their body would be removed and they would revert back to the appearance that they would have been had they been allowed to slow normally. This is why Siuan and Leane both appear to be younger than they are. They aren't really but they'll have the long life and appearance associated with unbound channelers.

 

yes they would now age normally from their age onwards, but is any previous damage done by long exposure under the oath rod reversed or does it remain, in effect shortening their life still. Not shortened as much now since their would be no further damage done but surely whatever effect the oath rod has had will remain.

 

For example if an Aes Sedai removed the oaths 1 day before they were about to die, would they then have hundreds of years of life ahead, or is the damage done and they will die in like 3 days instead of 1. If Aes Sedai die early due to some sort of physical stress from the oath rod i am guessing they would not all of a sudden have a full never bound channelers life span.

[MikeRiley]

I think if they were about to die as a result of the oaths then the pain on removing the oaths would kill them anyway. That's just speculation, though, it's one of those things that would be impossible for them to test or study. I would think once the stress on their body was removed they would begin to heal while de-aging... RJ said somewhere that the One Power has the ability to rejuvenate the flesh, said it about a question regarding Aginor at the Eye of the World.