Healing death Imposible?

[Shadow Rider]

In tSR Ch:52 'Choices' Rand holds Sulin with flows of air to prevent her from breaking the last spear she held her foot against. When he was sure she would not break the spear he un-raveled the weave that held her...Why not just release her?

 

In aPoD Ch:2 'Unweaving' Aviendha picked apart the weaves of the gateway she had opened to prevent anyone from following. Moridin watching says it's impossible. They couldn't do that in the AoL, healing the Severed as well not possible in the AoL. But apparently, a few Wise Ones have the Talent.

 

Unweaving, Healing the severed possible.

What about Death? Could death be healed?

We do know Rand has to die and between Min and Egwene we have viewings and dreams of Rands grave. We also know that the Great lord can bring someone back so healing death should not be impossible.

 

It's my theory that Lan dies in the battle at Tarwin's Gap and Nyneve in her grief refuses to let him go and heals death.

 

What do you think?  

 

[mossman87]

It's already been healed, Birgitte was dead and Moghedien brought her back.

 

Edit: Okay coming back I guess if you mean the traditional way of bringing back somebody from a dead body... I'd have to say yes, mmmmmmaybe.  Ordinary people in AOL transplanted souls into Nym.  That was probably done randomly though, who's to say besides Brandon if they could willingly pick a specific soul. 

If we're going with RJ's physics background, then in this world the people should be able to accomplish anything the Pattern does, as long as they have the knowledge for manipulating the atoms (threads), and enough power of course.

[Shadow Rider]

Was she truly dead or just at the brink?

[mossman87]

Was she truly dead or just at the brink?

 

She was in TAR my man, dead-o.

[Lambada]

It's already been healed, Birgitte was dead and Moghedien brought her back.

 

Oooh I never actually thought of that.

 

Birgitte was dead. But as she was bound to the horn, she was dead in T'a'R.

Moghedian ripped her out, thus inadvertantly trying to make her live.

However, she would have returned to death if it had not been for the bonding Elayne did - Healing did not work, but bonding did. Thus I can only suppose that Bonding intertwines the souls / threads.

 

This raises interesting possibilities for Rand dying, and surviving.

 

You have given me much to think about my friend.

[mossman87]

It's already been healed, Birgitte was dead and Moghedien brought her back.

 

Oooh I never actually thought of that.

 

Birgitte was dead. But as she was bound to the horn, she was dead in T'a'R.

Moghedian ripped her out, thus inadvertantly trying to make her live.

However, she would have returned to death if it had not been for the bonding Elayne did - Healing did not work, but bonding did. Thus I can only suppose that Bonding intertwines the souls / threads.

 

This raises interesting possibilities for Rand dying, and surviving.

 

You have given me much to think about my friend.

 

Yeah I made a post about it a couple months ago but it doesn't look to have been saved through the post moves. :-/

 

It's just the fact we always hear that Nynaeve:

- Has healed everything seemed impossible,

- That she wouldn't give up until she healed something three days dead,

- That she learns weaves after seeing them once, and

- SHE was the one there who actually saw it.  

 

Birgitte is tied to the Horn.  Birgitte was dead yet lived.

Rand is tied to the Horn.  He has to die to live.

[Shadow Rider]

The Great lord transplants the soul into another body but he can't actually resurrect the soul and the body with it.

This talk of Tar could be the answer.

[Shadow Rider]

could this be the BUT?

[Sid]

 

It's just the fact we always hear that Nynaeve:

- Has healed everything seemed impossible,

- That she wouldn't give up until she healed something three days dead,

- That she learns weaves after seeing them once, and

- SHE was the one there who actually saw it. 

 

Rand is tied to the Horn.  He has to die to live.

Birgitte was dead yet lived.

 

Homer: [sarcastically] Oh, I see! Then I guess everything's wrapped up in a neat little package!

[after a pause]

Homer: Really, I mean that. Sorry if it SOUNDED sarcastic.

 

It does tie together rather nicely, though it wouldn't necessarily be Rand al'Thor that she'd bring back, but the ONE CALLED DRAGON, soul of the hero that is the DO's enemy.

[mossman87]

 

It's just the fact we always hear that Nynaeve:

- Has healed everything seemed impossible,

- That she wouldn't give up until she healed something three days dead,

- That she learns weaves after seeing them once, and

- SHE was the one there who actually saw it.  

 

Rand is tied to the Horn.  He has to die to live.

Birgitte was dead yet lived.

 

Homer: [sarcastically] Oh, I see! Then I guess everything's wrapped up in a neat little package!

[after a pause]

Homer: Really, I mean that. Sorry if it SOUNDED sarcastic.

 

It does tie together rather nicely, though it wouldn't necessarily be Rand al'Thor that she'd bring back, but the ONE CALLED DRAGON, soul of the hero that is the DO's enemy.

 

They are their last incarnation when in TAR.  So Sir Al'thor!

[mossman87]

Besides, Rand's body is in pieces, he could use his full one back again.

 

I imagine he'd be secretly brought back, and then use the dagger that hides you from the dark to go all Frodo up to Shayol Ghul.

[DaughterOfNight]

Unweaving, Healing the severed possible.

What about Death? Could death be healed?

We do know Rand has to die and between Min and Egwene we have viewings and dreams of Rands grave. We also know that the Great lord can bring someone back so healing death should not be impossible.

 

It's my theory that Lan dies in the battle at Tarwin's Gap and Nyneve in her grief refuses to let him go and heals death.

 

What do you think?  

 

 

I think 'healing' death will make one 'undead' and an Aes Sedai who does so could be considered a necromancer of sorts.  I would guess that bringing the dead back to life would be more along the lines as something 'evil' or the dark side of channelers.  Maybe I've played too much EQ over the years.

[Shadow Rider]

 

It's just the fact we always hear that Nynaeve:

- Has healed everything seemed impossible,

- That she wouldn't give up until she healed something three days dead,

- That she learns weaves after seeing them once, and

- SHE was the one there who actually saw it.  

 

Rand is tied to the Horn.  He has to die to live.

Birgitte was dead yet lived.

 

Homer: [sarcastically] Oh, I see! Then I guess everything's wrapped up in a neat little package!

[after a pause]

Homer: Really, I mean that. Sorry if it SOUNDED sarcastic.

 

It does tie together rather nicely, though it wouldn't necessarily be Rand al'Thor that she'd bring back, but the ONE CALLED DRAGON, soul of the hero that is the DO's enemy.

 

Yes but could she actually heal death....not just transplant a soul into a body, that would require someone giving up their body, but actually bring the soul back to the owners body which Nyneve has healed of wounds

In TAR, need could be used to find a soul?

[mossman87]

The Great lord transplants the soul into another body but he can't actually resurrect the soul and the body with it.

This talk of Tar could be the answer.

 

It's the words you use...  "Transplants" is all it is really.  The Pattern just "transplants" souls into fetuses as well.  AOLers transplanted souls into Nym.  There is no real resurrection in the ways we believe it in Christianity.

 

That Ogier they found without a soul that Verin looked at, if she had the ability and power I'm sure she could transplant a soul into it.

[Shadow Rider]

I think 'healing' death will make one 'undead' and an Aes Sedai who does so could be considered a necromancer of sorts.  I would guess that bringing the dead back to life would be more along the lines as something 'evil' or the dark side of channelers.  Maybe I've played too much EQ over the years.

 

I agree with this, they may only bring Lan & Rand back an vow never to do it again.....

 

Everyone should be spun out by the Wheel as it wills but the Light would owe(sp*) Rand and Lan the chance at a life of there own design.

Neither has had much of a choice.

 

"Death is lighter than a feather, Duty is as heavy as a Mountain"

Can't remember the exact wording.  :-[

[mossman87]

Whoever's souls went into Nym didn't have much of a choice, but they're seen as Light creatures.  I think they're allowed to do whatever they want with the souls as long as it doesn't disrupt the Pattern's order and balance.

 

Edit:  But it seems like the normal, True Source ways (rebirth, Nym) don't break the boundaries of the lives/memories, while the True Power way transplanting souls does.  That'd make a case that the Taint really does tear down the walls and make the male channelers insane with voices.

[Shadow Rider]

It's the words you use...  "Transplants" is all it is really.  The Pattern just "transplants" souls into fetuses as well.  AOLers transplanted souls into Nym.  There is no real resurrection in the ways we believe it in Christianity.

 

That Ogier they found without a soul that Verin looked at, if she had the ability and power I'm sure she could transplant a soul into it.

 

Brigitte,s resurrection proves it can be done, but it's not perfect.

[mossman87]

It's the words you use...  "Transplants" is all it is really.  The Pattern just "transplants" souls into fetuses as well.  AOLers transplanted souls into Nym.  There is no real resurrection in the ways we believe it in Christianity.

 

That Ogier they found without a soul that Verin looked at, if she had the ability and power I'm sure she could transplant a soul into it.

 

Brigitte,s resurrection proves it can be done, but it's not perfect.

 

I know, it's what I've spent all post talking about.

 

I just think resurrection is a bad way to think of people coming back into the WOT world.

[nolirion]

the only ethical , will be to grow up a other body like yourself with no conscience and then transplant it in .

But for some way it's seam to me just no good , in the wheel of time the soul is immortal that should be enough .

Healing death will be foolish In WoT like in other fantasy it rarely bring good .

[mossman87]

the only ethical , will be to grow up a other body like yourself with no conscience and then transplant it in .

But for some way it's seam to me just no good , in the wheel of time the soul is immortal that should be enough .

Healing death will be foolish In WoT like in other fantasy it rarely bring good .

 

There are no ethics in regards to the Pattern though.

[nolirion]

Or you have not yet seen it

[mossman87]

Also:

 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8513/creator-wheel.htm (Wow Geocities??)

H: When a soul is reborn, at what point does it enter the body?

RJ: Hmm . . . I’d have to say as a fetus. When the body becomes capable of sustaining life.

H:  Ok. In The Eye of the World, Thom said that the dead can take over a living body. If this happened, what would happen to the original soul?

RJ: Read and find out.

 

For just a little more on what I was meaning with thinking of it as transplanting over resurrecting.  Really there's no difference, but resurrection sometimes makes one think of a religious side when it shouldn't in this case IMO.

[Shadow Rider]

 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8513/creator-wheel.htm (Wow Geocities??)

H: When a soul is reborn, at what point does it enter the body?

RJ: Hmm . . . I’d have to say as a fetus. When the body becomes capable of sustaining life.

H:  Ok. In The Eye of the World, Thom said that the dead can take over a living body. If this happened, what would happen to the original soul?

RJ: Read and find out.

 

I just thought of something so funny, I'm still laughing.

What if they transplant Rand & Lan into Aviendha's Babies!  :D

 

Aviendha's son " Mommy, do you remember when we got our freak on in Rhiudean?"

 

Aviendha "Eek! i have Toh!"

 

Aviendha's son "Yes pretty toes."  :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shadow Rider]

Now ... getting back to my topic with some Mods to the Original post.

 

In tFoH Ch:52 'Choices' Rand holds Sulin with flows of air to prevent her from breaking the last spear she held her foot against. When he was sure she would not break the spear he un-raveled the weave that held her...Why not just release her?

 

In aPoD Ch:2 'Unweaving' Aviendha picked apart the weaves of the gateway she had opened to prevent anyone from following. Moridin watching says it's impossible. They couldn't do that in the AoL, healing the Severed as well not possible in the AoL. But apparently, a few Wise Ones have the Talent.

 

In TFoH: Ch:34 'A Silver Arrow' Brigitte a dead hero of the horn is ripped from TAR into the real world and though Nyneves healing doesn't work the bond Elayne places on Brigitte keep her alive. So Brigitte is living breathing proof not only that it can be done, but also how.

 

Unweaving, Healing the severed possible.

Healing Death possible

We do know Rand has to die and between Min and Egwene we have viewings and dreams of Rands grave. We also know that the Great lord can bring someone back so healing death should not be impossible.

 

It's my theory that Lan dies in the battle at Tarwin's Gap and Nyneve in her grief refuses to let him go and heals death.

 

I don't think Nyneve will bring Rand back:

Mins viewing tGS Ch48 'Reading the Commentary'

Quote

Nynaeve  � She was kneeling over someone's corpse in a posture of grief.

I believe this to be Lan. I think the girls will bring Rand back.

 

 

 

What do you think? 

 

[farthammer]

There are numerous other cases where the word unraveled is used during Rand's POV's to describe what he's doing.  Not sure there's any pattern to it as it's used in the context of wards as well.  Just one of the many ways the OP differs depending on gender maybe?

 

Bringing Birgitte into it complicates things a bit.  She was not a corpse when Elayne bonded her.  Did even Moghedien really know what she did, or is it just one of those desparation moments where channelers pull crazy things out of their ass?

 

Otherwise I thought it was common knowledge since RJ clarified that Rand was a Hero of the Horn, that if he died in the real world he could be called back with the horn like all the other heroes?