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I Have A Question For Folks Who Know LOTR Better Than I Do


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Did Gandalf really ''die'' as a result of his plunge with The Balrog?

 

I always saw this as rather metaphorical...figurative, even.

 

Gandalf The Grey...his time done...Gandalf The White now needed to finish the tasks of The Fellowship.

 

Gandalf makes some comment (either in The Simillarion or TTT) about ''burning in heat'' which makes it sound like he was probably being tortured in some Hell-Like dimension ... I don't think he ever dies though.

 

Boromir dies :(

 

Also, what were supposed to be the main differences between White Guy Gandalf and Grey Guy Gandalf?

 

I don't think even the most astute of readers were ever able to answer THAT question, lol.

 

 

Fish

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Gandalf is a Maiar, sent to Middle-Earth to help fight Sauron. He is of the same race as Sauron but is not allowed to directly challenge him. When he "died" I believe his current form was defeated so he was forced to make another "body" as it were. His true essence isn't physical from what I recall though.

 

Being the White is simply him being put in charge of the other Istari, much as Saruman had been. I'm not entirely certain but I believe that is essentially what it is.

 

Others more knowledgeable than I may be better able to answer this.

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Elend is correct. A Maiar who has the backing of the Valar (lords of the west, and practically demi gods) can't really "die" as such. Gandalf, being the only Istari who didn't stray from his mission, wasn't only allowed resurrection after his fight with the Balrog, but he was also allowed to return to the west, something none of the remaining four Istari were allowed.

 

I do believe that when he returned as the white, he was more powerful mainly because he was allowed to use more "power" in his task instead of diplomacy and manipulation. (The Istari were never supposed to force the free peoples to defeat Sauron, nor were they supposed to confront Sauron directly and defeat him (even if they could), their mission was to get the free peoples to band together and deafeat Sauron).

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Whole trilogy was a brilliant piece of WW2 propaganda

 

Could the simple small folk from a place that seems to be straight out of rural England defeat the evil, warmongering villain to the east.

 

Has anyone else ever noticed that?

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The Whole trilogy was a brilliant piece of WW2 propaganda

 

Could the simple small folk from a place that seems to be straight out of rural England defeat the evil, warmongering villain to the east.

 

Has anyone else ever noticed that?

 

 

This makes very little sense. Because;

 

 

1) The main folklore is very heavily borrowed from Germanic sources. Nordic Paganism is very heavy in the book, also there is an extensive use of Germanic folklore. This really starts to shine out in the Silmarillion. Why the hell make the main characters and races culture based off the enemy?

 

2) The pure white men and peoples of the West stand bravely with the Elves to fight Sauron. Whilst the swarthy men of the East (Asians) and the dark men of the South (Africans) are weak of heart and easily corruptable, being of lesser stature, therefore align themselves with Sauron. This is why the book is often accused of racism.

 

3) The men of the East are described as Asian and swarthy. The actual true enemy however is to the South, not to the East. So it makes this view a bit problematic.

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The Whole trilogy was a brilliant piece of WW2 propaganda

 

Could the simple small folk from a place that seems to be straight out of rural England defeat the evil, warmongering villain to the east.

 

Has anyone else ever noticed that?

 

This was brought up several times after publication and in his lifetime, Tolkien always denied that the book was in any way representative of WWII

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Not to mention that Tolkien had ambiguous views on WW2. For example;

 

Tolkien voiced support for Francisco Franco's Nationalists during the Spanish Civil War

 

Tolkien made no effort to hide his contempt for the Soviet dictator. Even during World War II, when Britain was allied with the USSR.

 

 

Tolkien criticised Allied use of total war tactics against civilians from Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

 

He also reacted with anger at the excesses of anti-German propaganda during the war.

 

The destruction of Germany is one of the most appalling world-catastrophes. Well, well,—you and I can do nothing about it. And that [should] be a measure of the amount of guilt that can justly be assumed to attach to any member of a country who is not a member of its actual Government.

 

 

 

Or alternatively his German ancestry was a source of pride to him;

 

My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah. Somehow I doubt LOTR was about WW2 and demonizing the Germans. Call it a hunch...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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