Military Leadership During the Last Battle

[Luckers]

Theoretically the same argument could be made for joe random wetlander... they may not have training like joe random aiel, but in the face of the Last Battle surely they, like the people of Manetheren, would raise arms.

[n00l3y]

Well, I don't think there will be one main general, all the countries/peoples hate each other too much for that. Instead, each army would have its own leader; Mat for the Band, Clan chiefs for the Aiel, Galgan for the Seanchan, etc, and they all just fight at TG as one force.

 

Regarding Rand and Perrin, well, I don't think either will be generals. Perrin strikes me as a more "way of the lead" guy. I mean, in KoD he even gave up his axe. So, perhaps preparation and rallying for war, but not getting too involved in it.

 

As for Rand, he is the main guy, so I think RJ would isolate him. He will go on his own private mission. Shrug off any help, kill some forsaken and hinder the DO. Oh, and in the process, get himself killed/seriously wounded.

[Luckers]

I suspect they will take their lead from Rand... in much the same way that Tylee and Perrin went about their buisness. And if they are taking their lead from Rand you can be sure that Mat will be at play behind the scenes... the Seanchan, the Aiel and most the others too have no problems with him, and great respect for his ability.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I agree with that. I think Rand will take part in making the initial planning, but once the fighting breaks out all over the place, he will lead a strike force directly to SG.

 

But I don't think Mat and Perrin will be leading on the battlefield, since they seem to be crucial for rand's success. Both Min's viewings and the increasing images they have of eachother clearly shows that they must be together, so I think Mat and Perrin will be members of the force going to SG.

 

I think pretty much EVERYBODY is going to Shayol Ghul. That's where the big showdown takes place. I also think thats where all the Shadowspawn are chillin, because Moridin knows Rand is coming, and he's bringing everyone that can stand up, see lightning, and hear thunder.

[Luckers]

I disagree... for one thing there are too many point of view characters for that to be feasible. It'd come of as a cheap gimmic...

 

Secondly the scope of this story is way to large for that, and the need for pacing in the last book demands more then a final charge. My guess is there will be at least two or three focal points for the end of the books. Rand in Shayol Ghoul... likely with Mat and Perrin, Aviendha, Cads, Moiraine and a bunch of others. Then probably two large battles between everyone else and trolloc hordes.

 

Lastly the whole 'the great battle done, but the world not done with battle'. makes me doubt everything will be wrapped up in a neat little package. Victory will be attained, but just barely, and the enemy wont be completely wiped out or anything.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Everybody being in the "field" together after the Dark One is gone would hardly be "a neat little package." Their reason for unifying is now disposed of, their nominal over-leader (Rand) is dead, and everyone has their weapons out. Who gets to go home where? And there will still be lots of Trollocs hanging out.

 

Secondly the scope of this story is way to large for that, and the need for pacing in the last book demands more then a final charge.

 

This story, at it's current pace, is way to large for ANY one book to finish. Pacing will HAVE to be done with, if he hopes to finish in something that you can pick up. And when I said "everyone goes" I meant on the expedition to the Blight, of course they can't all fit in the Pit. Rand will want to strike right as soon as he can.

 

I disagree... for one thing there are too many point of view characters for that to be feasible. It'd come of as a cheap gimmic...

 

I think it would be a cheap gimmick for him to leave people behind just to have more POV's in different places. There will be plenty going on a Shayol Ghul for everyone. I'm not thinking "one charge". Mat can come up with a better battle plan than that. My little sister can. We have no idea what the Deep Blight can throw at people. I'm looking forward to seeing the "worse things" that live beyond the high passes of the Mountains of Dhoom.

 

I'm curious what you mean by "unifying" if you don't mean gathering in one place. Will Rand not come to help against a Shadowspawn assault on Tar Valon? Will the Aes Sedai not try to defend the Blightborder? Assuming the Shadow can attack all at once, wouldn't the Light's best tactical method be to throw their whole strength at each army of Shadowspawn one at a time? They can get their whole strength into position quickly for each battle via gateway, an advantage the Shadowspawn don't have. Much in the same way Elayne moved all her strength to each point of attack on the walls, rather than trying to defend the whole length simultaneously. Unless you think the Dark One has 10 million or so Trollocs ... and if he had that many, he should have just taken over the whole world 20 or so years ago.

[Luckers]

This story, at it's current pace, is way to large for ANY one book to finish. Pacing will HAVE to be done with, if he hopes to finish in something that you can pick up. And when I said "everyone goes" I meant on the expedition to the Blight, of course they can't all fit in the Pit. Rand will want to strike right as soon as he can.

 

I disagree. I used to think so, but i sat down one day and went through all the points that need to be covered according to prophecy and the like, and wether or not you agree with the layout i suggest it is implicative that ending this series is indeed possible without sacrficing its quality or its scope.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=461

 

Thats the link. i disagree now with some of what i suggested--for starters talking to you has made me flesh out how i would deal with the Seanchan assault in great detail, and my examination of the military forces have made me change my position on how some of the battles will play out--but the over all form shows that it can be achieved. What i mean is, if it could be done by me in the form i suggest, it could be done in a another form by RJ.

 

I think it would be a cheap gimmick for him to leave people behind just to have more POV's in different places. There will be plenty going on a Shayol Ghul for everyone. I'm not thinking "one charge". Mat can come up with a better battle plan than that. My little sister can. We have no idea what the Deep Blight can throw at people. I'm looking forward to seeing the "worse things" that live beyond the high passes of the Mountains of Dhoom.

 

And i suspect we might, but we are going to have at least two, if not three or four massive trolloc armies in the south... there just isn't enough room for that sort of confrontation in the Blight... 5 million shadowspawn against 2.5 million of the light... no, it wont be one battle with Rand at the head of his force, its simply impractical and unlikely, and additionally RJ needs to up the stakes in the Last Battle... there needs to be some nasty happening to the Light... i suspect the borderland nations will be absolutely wiped out and so forth.

 

Tarmon Gai'don isn't going to be one battle. I suspect there will be four focal points. One on each of three battles with shadowspawn spread throughout the world, and one north in the blight with Rand and what he takes with him, which seems likely to be a considerable force of its own right. But there are too many leaders and so forth for everyone to be with Rand, it'd be a let down.

 

I'm curious what you mean by "unifying" if you don't mean gathering in one place.

 

I mean just that... a force with a single goal. Akin to the way the Allied forces were unified. Gathering the forces of the light into one place would be both stupid and unlikely, given that the trolloc forces are distributed. The Light cannot ignore the others whilst they focus on one, then the next, then the next. A) by the third battle they'd be worn down way to far. B) its unlikely they will achieve total victory in any of the battles, certainly not in a short time, not against that number of enemy. And meanwhile the other armies are maurauding about... it would be the quickest way to lose a war imaginable.

 

Will Rand not come to help against a Shadowspawn assault on Tar Valon? Will the Aes Sedai not try to defend the Blightborder?

 

He will be there with his coterie of followers, but no, he wont lead an army to help. I suspect Tuon and the Aes Sedai will route the enemy before that becomes nessasary... not defeat them, but drubbed them until they break the seige and pull back. A respite, if a momentary one. There will be no total victories in this, except maybe Rand's north in the blight... that sort of requires a total victory.

 

As for the Aes Sedai and the blightborder... no, i doubt they will. For starters i suspect the borderlands will be completely overrun before they even hear of the incursion, and secondly they will have their own concerns at that time.

 

Indeed thats what i mean by unified force. Different aspects of different groups will face different threats... thereby, as a unified force, responding to the Trolloc invasion.

 

Assuming the Shadow can attack all at once, wouldn't the Light's best tactical method be to throw their whole strength at each army of Shadowspawn one at a time? They can get their whole strength into position quickly for each battle via gateway, an advantage the Shadowspawn don't have. Much in the same way Elayne moved all her strength to each point of attack on the walls, rather than trying to defend the whole length simultaneously.

 

Ok, if we followed your battle plan, each trolloc army would need to be defeated in the initial attack... you might be able to spare maybe a day, beyond that the freedom of the other armies becomes problamatic. It would require an open direct attack, any sort of subterfuge and the army is simply too big, it will not be destroyed... even with ambushes and initial intelligence, you can't wipe them out fast enough for it not to turn into a melee.

 

Each Trolloc Army will be massive... likely equaling that of the Light, when you include consideration for the individual size and strength of each trolloc vs. each human. Even against just one a direct confrontation would be... chancy. As Bashere says, you have to outnumber them at least three to one for victory to be certain in a direct confrontation.

 

The tactics that will need to be used are going to need to be more creative. Concider what Bashere says about facing a superior force and the way they fought the trolloc wars. It's going to need to be fought in a more open arena, where the light chooses each battlefield for full advantage, and retreats the INSTANT it starts to turn into the aforementioned melee. Slowly the forces of the Shadow will be worn down to a stage where they can be destroyed for good. But this will take to long for what you suggest. The other armies will take the entire world before the first army is defeated. No, the Lights army will have to be broken--this means the Trollocs have a far greater army at each confrontation, but that is nessasary and the generals should be able to work it using gateways in the same way Rand did in PoD against the Seanchan.

 

The simple fact is, in wars of this scale there are never one unified force, forces are spread out to respond to all enemy incursions. And there is rarely one glorious battle to end it... though this will have a degree of that given the nature of the Dark Ones defeat... nevertheless, the Trollocs wont be wiped out by then, though they will have been soundly defeated all over.

 

Unless you think the Dark One has 10 million or so Trollocs ... and if he had that many, he should have just taken over the whole world 20 or so years ago.

 

My guess would place the Shadowspawn numbers at around 5 million, maybe (probably) a bit more. Then there will be darkfriends to support that too, likely in larger numbers then we suspect.

 

In any case, the reason the Shadow didn't invade 20 years ago is your catchphrase... the Dark One. Everything the Shadow has done since the Age of Legends has been directed solely at destabalizing the light. When it got to powerful in terms of the Ten Nations, Ishamael instigated the Trolloc Wars, when Artur Hawkwing united it he tried again and failed, and then went to the subtle and caused the War of a Hundred Years.

 

It makes a certain amount of sense. For one, those Shadowspawn forces would have had to have been deployed out of all the blight, not just above the borderlands, which means victory wasn't certain. Don't tip your hand early, is the lesson. Yes, if victory had been attained it might have been pretty shiny for the shadow, but if the light had won... Their plan makes a lot of sense really, do what you can to weaken the light--well they've done that--then invade, and they are about to do that.

[Musenge]

I can't concieve one overall leader this late in the game. The book has always emphasised lack of communication and differing views showing confusion and weakness. Think how simple things would be if Rand and Egwene had a few chats by now. That isn't the authors style to be so neat.

 

I think the last battle will involve several large battles, everybody is too scattered about to be going to one place. Mat will probably lead the Seanchan (he IS their prince now), and the other generals their forces too. The fighting will be thickest where Mat is and will leave him blowing his horn. Would like to see what the Seanchan make of Hawkwing himself!

 

Rand, Cadsuane, Alivia etc will probably make a sneaky strike on Shayol Ghul with a plan simmilar to how they defended Rand and Nynaeve at the cleansing.

 

Oh btw Itulralde already lost the Tarbonners, it was in KOD, they didn't follow him into Arad Doman.

 

The difficulties of the light face not from being outnumbered but from having no unity, being starved and low morale. Especially once the massive amount of darkfriends start betraying people left right and centre. That will severly weaken them.

 

I think that the world not being done with battle refers to the issue of the Seanchan after Tarmon Gaidon. Which won't be in the book. That's one of the things I reckon RJ will leave unfinished as he said.

 

I wonder what Role Masema has. Everybody expects Fain to have a Gollum moment but Masema hasn't been killed off yet and the Shaido battle was a good opportunity to bump him off. He only has about 200 men left now which is practically nothing but I know he has some role. Just can't think what it would be.

[Luckers]

Oh btw Itulralde already lost the Tarbonners, it was in KOD, they didn't follow him into Arad Doman.

 

Indeed, though a massive portion of his army is still Dragonsworn.

 

The difficulties of the light face not from being outnumbered but from having no unity, being starved and low morale. Especially once the massive amount of darkfriends start betraying people left right and centre. That will severly weaken them.

 

There is every indication that the Light will indeed be massively outnumbered in the Last Battle... Admitedly, that estimate didn't count on either the Aiel or the Seanchan presense, but that being said it was likely based on Trolloc v human numbers in the Trolloc wars, and the human population has decreased, and the trollocs also invaded into the Waste and Shara, which it seems unlikely they will do this time. Frankly i expect them to largely out number the Light.

 

I think that the world not being done with battle refers to the issue of the Seanchan after Tarmon Gaidon. Which won't be in the book. That's one of the things I reckon RJ will leave unfinished as he said.

 

I expect it refers to many different contensions following the the Last Battle, the Seanchan may only be one of them. For starters i dont see the Trollocs being wiped out. Then there are issues like how will the nations handle themselves in the longterm. What Rand has brought about is at best a temporary situation, and its likely to crumple the second the Last Battle is over.

[Mik]

Nice post Luckers.

 

Only thing I'm missing in that post/ this discussion/ is the wolves. They'll be the counter for the Darkhounds/ ravens.

 

I wouldn't know how big the wolf-pack would be, but it might be preeetty big.. especially if their fight is in the Unseen World...

 

(why would the fight be in Randland only anyhoo? Most of the key-fighting took place in the Unseen World..)

 

More food for thought? ;)

[Jarred Darque]

With the possibilit yof forsaken in...holdon need to turn on my light to read my map...Murandy, that hte light forces do not know about yet, and may not in time. I would think that these forces would become part of the lgih forces, try to gain a decent/critical positiono n the battle field, then their leader betrays with his forces and turns on the forces of light. Thus giving the light forces more problems.

 

Also, Shara is it, we really dont know which side of the fence they are going to be on. It has been mentioned that they are lead by power wielders through coertion...they dont sound really like 'good' people..perhaps they are anevil force. Another opportunity for the Forces of Light to be backstabbed at a crucial point of the battle.

 

It is my belief that in the last battle the Forces of Light will be utterly surounded by the DOs forces, be it an all trolloc/darkfriend army or betrayers as well.

 

The borderlanders in Andor in their POV's said they have left enough troops back home to protect against anything short of the Trolloc Wars, wel boys (and girls) we are looking at something far larger. The Borderlands will fall, and quickly, Perhaps this will somehow trap Lan Mandragoran's forces at tarwin's gap...I dont know how he is going to play into it besides that the people who are going to join with him are going to draw even more men out of the borderland's fighitng forces. Perhaps this is a bad thing, or perhaps it will save men from a hopeless battle as Trollocs descend.

 

Rand mentioned in KoD that the army he is gathering in the west is over a million strong. The largest army seen in Randland...ever.. And he doesnt have access to many of the armies in play...the borderlands, the seanchan (those two are the strongest not counting the Aiel) So I agree with Luckers comment on near 2 mil for the Forces of Light. But if you look at even a conservative number of 5% darkfriends, you are looking at 100,000 people in that army who at a moments notice will betray and can backstab it...not counting possible Murandy and Shara betryels.

 

The Ogier will fight. I have no doubts there. Isnt Loiel plannin on speakin to the great stump? While they are few in numbers, I think tehy havea low number of darkfriends, if any. And they can fight with an unmathced ferocity...so give their numbers more weight than even a trained army.

 

I do not expect any help from Seanchan homelands that place sseems like it is going downhill fast, I am sur ethe forsaken have a hand in it...well we know they do.. I would expect a trolloc invasion there. Expect Mat to want to do something about it with Tuon pressuring him.

 

Moraine is coming back, we know that, I am sure she will have some pivitol role in the last battle.

 

Trollocs will invade with weakened forces in the south. where exactly, I dont know, but they will. I say weakened cause Machin Shin will kill some of em off, and some will die with rands traps at the waygates. they cant travel..that helps out some.

 

I feel that Mat will be the Supreme Commander of the lights forces. he has the skill, but will need to proce himself to the worlds otehr great captains, which will possibly cut down on some numbers for the light forces. the other generals will lead their own repective forces under Mat's command. Perrin will be a motivational speaker. band of the Red Hand will be a body guard I think..even if that Irks them....that or they will be in the THICKEST part of the fighting. Traveling will give them a tactical advantage. If the Bands crossbows can make it through mass production. another advantage that will help out for being outnumbered

 

I think one of the biggest parts of the last battle is going to be treachery. Treachery will hurt the light forces worse than any trolloc force can.

 

While I do feel that the battle will be in multiple locations, what better place for a major show down of forces than either Caralain Grass or the flat land around Tar Valon. But, I feel that there needs to be a major army being fielded in the Blight otherwise, how will all the shadows very nasty creatures in teh blight come into play, unless the blight gets sprinkled with Miracle-Gro and descends upon the lands extremely repidly as in miles a day repaidly.

 

I really wish I had a beter idea of what Lan and Malkier are going to play leading up to the last battle..will Lan's attack on Tarwin Gap stem the tide of Trollocs, perhaps saving Tar Valon from an Attack?

 

another thing to consider, if the DO has some great tcticians, is taht the Waste is weakened in military strenth. Send a few hundred thousand trollocs down there, decimate Aiel Holds, send Rands buddies runnin back to the Waste to save their home/lands/family and seperate the light forces some more.

 

While the sea folk will add a number of channelers, they must have some other purpose besides supplying the army with foodstuffs and supplies. I dontknow what that is. Sea travel for army movements is kinda a moot point now with traveling.

 

I am sure there is stuff I am not thinking of though.,

[Jarred Darque]

sorry for double post

[Luckers]

With the possibilit yof forsaken in...holdon need to turn on my light to read my map...Murandy, that hte light forces do not know about yet, and may not in time. I would think that these forces would become part of the lgih forces, try to gain a decent/critical positiono n the battle field, then their leader betrays with his forces and turns on the forces of light. Thus giving the light forces more problems.

 

Likely so. Indeed, it seems that Moghedian and Cyndane have been organising the Darkfriends in preperation for Tarmon Gaidon (Moridin sent them to gather Graendal, and later we see Cyndane making a darkfriend follow her orders.)

 

It also seems unlikely that the Murandians could be used in overt warfare against the light during Tarmon Gaidon. They'd likely have to be used in a subtle manner... failure to do what their told and the like thus weakening the army.

 

Also, Shara is it, we really dont know which side of the fence they are going to be on. It has been mentioned that they are lead by power wielders through coertion...they dont sound really like 'good' people..perhaps they are anevil force. Another opportunity for the Forces of Light to be backstabbed at a crucial point of the battle.

 

Unlikely. Like the Seanchan they rule through some nasty means... they are described as liars and the like, and endorse slavery... but they do seem sworn to the light. The Aiel hear stories of their unrest about the issue of the dragon. My guess is they wont be in the last battle, they'd be to hard for the shadow to manipulate or control in anyway, and the light wont bring them in... As Graendal says, a matter for after the Time of Return.

 

Trollocs will invade with weakened forces in the south. where exactly, I dont know, but they will. I say weakened cause Machin Shin will kill some of em off, and some will die with rands traps at the waygates. they cant travel..that helps out some.

 

My guess is the Shadow Coast, in Amadacia, and that the assault will be against the Seanchan. Something about all of those 'i want to see these trollocs of yours' comments just reeks of it.

 

Also, given that a hundred thousand made it through the ways in KoD, i suspect Machin Shin may not be that much of an issue... possible its even dead, following the cleansing.

[Jarred Darque]

yeah the ways havent been checked out that I know of since the cleansing.

 

yeah about the muradians, that is what I meant. they are told to protect this gap...their commander tells them to check someting out over there while thousands of trollocs sneak past in the other direction type of thing

 

Shara, if they come into play at all, will have to be for ethe dark...I thnk RJ understands that most eople dont like the Aiel Insta Army. I dont have a problem with it, but that is just me.

[Skull26]

Luckers that was crazy good. This might of been said before but I think that Lan is going to be the one leading all of the boarder lands. Remember in "New Spring" all the support he was given. Now the the Golden Crane is flying again I think thw whole of the Boarderlands will follow him.

Mat leading either all of rands forces besides the Aiel or he will lead the Schehan(sryboutspelling).

Logain will lead the men of the Black tower.

[Luckers]

I rather think the Borderlanders will lead themselves... between Agelmar Jagad and the fact that i suspect Perrin will be taking over the Saldaeans i more then suspect they can handle themselves.

 

However you make a good point about the effect of Lan's influence. I rather suspect the army he gathers as rides through the borderlands will not be negligable. Perhaps as many as 50,000 men altogether. Perhaps more.

 

Mat will likely not be 'leading' so much as offering suggestions that everyone will follow.

[dreago]

I think Perrin will play a bigger role than suspected(and i dont even like him). It's just the Broken Crown and the way the Manetheren banner kept resurfacing makes me believe that Faile is a descendant of Aemon or something and will try to bring back Manetheren(Perrin agreed not to, she didn't). Perrin may end up leading a sizable army.

[Luckers]

RJ doesn't tend to ressurect things. Whats past is past, and thats a massive theme in his books.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It will be interesting to see how things play out. The Light's forces only tactical advantage will be in their number of channelers, if the Trolloc numbers are anything near what you suggest. The population of Randland just isn't that high, maybe 10 million total (I'm basing that estimate on RJ's population numbers for Tar Valon, .5 million, and the other great cities, of which I count 14, at 2-300,000, then assuming a 40/60 cities/everywhere else ratio. Given the large amount of empty space, I may actually be overestimating the total population). 5 million trollocs would do for them in rather short order. I'll need to go over your military numbers again ... if they really have 2 and a half million soldiers that would be a quarter of the population ... but my point is this ... the channeler's biggest advantage is in standoff capability. They can kill you as soon as they can see you. Rand and about 20-30 channelers did for a cool hundred thousand Trollocs in the time it took them to charge across a field. If I had several thousand channelers at my disposal, and the Trollocs WERE coming south, I would give them enough of a guard to protect them from incidentals, and then stake out a couple of good defensive positions along the Trolloc lines of march, staggering them so that the Trolloc armies arrive at different times, say 3 days or so apart. I'm assuming there are not more than 3 major forces coming south, with a possible fourth from the untended Waygates on the Shadow Coast. Then, I would use the whole host of channelers at each battle. From a mediocre defensive position even 1000 channelers would do for a million Trollocs fairly easily. The experienced, high quality channelers at the farm with Rand did for them at a minimum of a 5000:1 ratio, a thousand channelers to a million Trollocs is assuming a ratio 5 times less. So, if the forces really are unified, using this strategy they could overwhelm all the major Trolloc thrusts in 12 days. If the Trollocs break up into smaller bands, the channelers greater agility as units gives them the advantage again. They can find out where they are (Seanchan raken will help here), Travel in front of them, and force them to either attack or run. I don't think that the Trolloc wars tactics should necessarily apply here, because the number of available channelers is much greater, and most of them are not bound by the Three Oaths. Many are specifically trained for was (the Asha'man and the damane).

 

So IF Rand really gets EVERYONE to agree to work together, then frankly, I think the Light kicks some serious butt.

 

Unless the Dark One gets out, to take a hand personally, in which case all bets are off.

 

I guess thats my major tactical objection to the Trollocs attacking ... they let the Light choose their ground then, and the channelers can shread them. Unless the number of Dreadlords is considerably higher than we guess, it seems that in order to consider attack, the Shadow would either have to believe that 1)the Light isn't really going to fight in any kind of unified way, or 2)that the Dark One is going to be free enough to lend a hand personally.

[Luckers]

I agree about the light, which is why i added the other considerations possibilities for how the Shadow might have more channelers. At the moment though the amount of channelers with rand... even if they dont all fight... is simply way to powerful of a weapon... and thats not concidering all the sa'angreal and angreal the light has access to.

 

As for your numbers of total population... we have no way of accurately judging given the frequent mention of vast areas of unkept land, and then there is the presense of the non-warrior aiel and the seanchan settlers... who by all acounts vastly outnumber their warrior friends. But lets use your 10 million... it seems fair.

 

1% of that should be able to channel according. Thats 100,000. Even if you vastly overcalculated, and concidering alot of those might be at morgase levels, which seems likely... thats still a lot of uncounted channelers... the dark may yet have tricks up its sleeves.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It is indeed ... the 1% includes people who can learn, and RJ said that the vast majority of people who can learn are ignorant of their ability, including men, who, if they never actually use it, wouldn't risk madness and death ... still, it leaves alot of open room for Dreadlords, and large numbers of Dreadlords changes the picture dramatically.

[Luckers]

Well if my theory about Ishamael actively setting people to recruiting as much as 20 years ago is correct...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Actually, I subscribe to that theory, especially finding men. That could be a BIG problem.

 

 

:lol: Of course, I just think that makes it more urgent for Rand to strike first. But you probably knew that was coming. And if the Shadow has TOO many channlers, why bother sowing chaos? Just gate in and smash everything. 2000 channelers educated by Forsaken could do for Tar Valon without a Trolloc in sight.

[Luckers]

It's all for the timetable my friend. The Dark One's release is significant... and besides, whatever your doing it makes sense to weaken your enemies first.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The big thing I'm missing is .... exactly what do they have to do to break the Dark One free? The War of Power started when the Friends of the Dark "made an attempt to free the Dark One completely and take control." Is that "taking control" in the purely military sense? How would that help them free the Dark One, who is imprisoned by existence itself?

 

 

Here's an idea ... and if it IS true, then your theory of the Dark attacking just kicked the crap out of mine.

 

 

Since human lives make up the primary "threads" in the Pattern, what if freeing the Dark One simply requires reducing the total population of the world to a low enough number that he can flex his "muscles" and snap all the remaining threads at once? A massive assault would definitely make sense at that point. And considering Jordan's descriptions of a slowly reducing population in Randland over the last thousand years or so, it fits. There is excess land in Randland, and alot of it. Populations with excess land almost always grow quickly, sometimes explosively. Why wouldn't Randlands'? Page 206 of the BWB describes this population decline, and goes on the speculate that it is caused by the Dark One's touch through the weakening seals.

 

If this is the case, the Light is in a worse position than it thinks it is .... and in THAT case then the Trollocs most definitely are coming, and it doesn't HAVE to make tactical sense. The Dark One just wants a bloodbath.