A Dream and an A'Dam

[Luckers]

I was going to put this in the BUT thread (and it will be in the compilation) but I genuinely don't think this stands a chance of being the Big Unnoticed Thing. I still think it my be a normal unnoticed thing, though.

 

In any case it's a dream by Egwene that I do not think I have ever seen anyone comment on.

 

A hard-faced Seanchan woman handed her a silvery bracelet and necklace connected by a silvery leash, an a'dam. That made her cry out; Seanchan had put an a'dam on her once. She would die before letting it happen again.

 

I had assumed this was just a normal dream--a nightmare. It follows on directly from a dream about Siuan and Leane handing her to thirteen Liandrin's, which was obviously not a True Dream.

 

But, consider, if it were a nightmare would not the Seanchan woman leash her? Could this possibly indicate that eventually Fortuona will choose to send the sul'dam and damane to the Tower (thus giving them to Egwene?).

 

If so could this connect to the viewing Min had or Carlinya with the raven tattoo's (property of the Seanchan Empress). Maybe all Seanchan channelers will be trained as Aes Sedai, and then serve the Empire in a similar way that the Deathwatch Guard or Seekers do--as property, but as property with great authority and standing.

 

Anyway the reason I don't think it can be the BUT is that there is no chance that this could come to be in ToM. It'd be more likely to be what the Outriggers were about...

 

But yeah, I thought it interesting.

[ravenfier]

well that could happen in the main books, we still dont know how the seanchan woman will help her. btw should i make a post whith the things that i have found in book one in the BUT or on a new post? probly do both after i finish it.

[Luckers]

well that could happen in the main books

 

I don't think I could. I mean I'll put it in the compilation, but I really don't think there is enough time for this to build.

 

we still dont know how the seanchan woman will help her

 

Well, based on the fact that the woman's face keeps changing, but the sword is rock solid, I'd say its most probably an army led by Fortuona that will help Egwene. The figure is female because the army is led by a woman, the face keeps changing show that theres more than one person doing the helping, and the sword reveals the nature as an army. Egwene will be fighting a battle, and losing, and Fortuona will join her and together they will win.

 

That's how I read it anyway.

 

btw should i make a post whith the things that i have found in book one in the BUT or on a new post? probly do both after i finish it.

 

If it's first book its probably not BUT unless it changes in some way as of book four. Trust your instincts.

[Tom Sawyer]

Given that Tuon just ordered a slave raid on the White Tower which killed off a bunch of Aes Sedai and dragged a bunch more away to be horrifically tortured, I can't see Egwene working with her any time soon.

 

I always thought that Seanchan she kept seeing was Egeanin (sp?).  Help her learn that not all Seanchan are as evil as the empire they serve and all that.

 

[Luckers]

Given that Tuon just ordered a slave raid on the White Tower which killed off a bunch of Aes Sedai and dragged a bunch more away to be horrifically tortured, I can't see Egwene working with her any time soon.

 

I can see Egwene accepting and offer for Sul'dam and damane to be trained as Aes Sedai, but like you, not soon. Partially I suspect that Fortuona saving Egwene will play a part in this.

 

 

[Vassili]

I'm going to go out on a not so small limb and predict that Egwene and Fortuona never work directly together and will never like eachother.

[Tom Sawyer]

I can see Egwene accepting and offer for Sul'dam and damane to be trained as Aes Sedai, but like you, not soon. Partially I suspect that Fortuona saving Egwene will play a part in this.

 

 

If Tuon frees all the damane, then there's a chance of that, but I still don't see it as likely.  She's a woman who's personally tortured and broken channelling women to rip out their personalities and make them slaves and ordered the attack that killed and imprisoned a number of Aes Sedai.  I can't see Egwene allying with the Seanchan while she's in charge of it and the plotline of the novels doesn't appear to be her getting axed and someone useful put in charge of the Empire.  I could see some kind of temporary alliance between them to fight the DO, like Rand tried to make, but I don't think that Egwene would consider having her life saved as compensation for the crimes that Tuon's committed.

[DemandredFO]

Remember, Setalle is most like there and made friends with Fortuona so she can be healed(lets not start the burn out v stilling again) and force Fortuona to grapple with the fact that Setalle is an Aes Sedai and yet does not have horns.  I suspect Egenin had to go through something similar.

[Yorkie]

Could it not be argued that Tuon and the Seanchan have already "helped" Egwene.

What I mean is that the raid was the cement that Egwene needed/used to bond the WT to her. Its the defining moment that all AS see the folly in themselves and the strength in Egwene and her leadership.

 

Just a wild thought.

[Luckers]

Could it not be argued that Tuon and the Seanchan have already "helped" Egwene.

What I mean is that the raid was the cement that Egwene needed/used to bond the WT to her. Its the defining moment that all AS see the folly in themselves and the strength in Egwene and her leadership.

 

Just a wild thought.

 

No, and for two reasons. One, in the dream the Seanchan woman has to climb the cliff as well--she is not struggling like Egwene, but she has to do it. She states 'we can make it together'. The mountain, the adversity, is something both Egwene and the Seanchan woman face--a third external thread. The attack on the Tower does not fulfil this.

 

Two, Brandon stated that the attack on the Tower doesn't fulfil the Seanchan woman dream.

[Tel Janin]

I had assumed this was just a normal dream--a nightmare. It follows on directly from a dream about Siuan and Leane handing her to thirteen Liandrin's, which was obviously not a True Dream.

 

This would not be the first time RJ downplayed a prophetic dream.  In TDR, chapter 25, Egwene dreams about Whitecloaks binding her father's hands, and she thinks to herself that it must be an ordinary nightmare.  We of course knew that it was not.

 

If memory serves, she writes off a lot of Seanchan-oriented dreams as just nightmares; perhaps we should take a look at more of them...

 

I agree with you Luckers; this is a prophetic dream versus a nightmare.

 

My two coppers...

[Yorkie]

Could it not be argued that Tuon and the Seanchan have already "helped" Egwene.

What I mean is that the raid was the cement that Egwene needed/used to bond the WT to her. Its the defining moment that all AS see the folly in themselves and the strength in Egwene and her leadership.

 

Just a wild thought.

 

No, and for two reasons. One, in the dream the Seanchan woman has to climb the cliff as well--she is not struggling like Egwene, but she has to do it. She states 'we can make it together'. The mountain, the adversity, is something both Egwene and the Seanchan woman face--a third external thread. The attack on the Tower does not fulfil this.

 

Two, Brandon stated that the attack on the Tower doesn't fulfil the Seanchan woman dream.

 

Did not know point two, and point one makes sense for that point of view...

 

Back to drawing board.

[Dida]

Given that Tuon just ordered a slave raid on the White Tower which killed off a bunch of Aes Sedai and dragged a bunch more away to be horrifically tortured, I can't see Egwene working with her any time soon.

 

I can see Egwene accepting and offer for Sul'dam and damane to be trained as Aes Sedai, but like you, not soon. Partially I suspect that Fortuona saving Egwene will play a part in this.

 

How do you suspect Fortuona might save Egwene in the future?

 

And do you suspect this would occur in the remaining books, and/or in the future Seanchan based books with Mat & Fortuona?

 

 

Are you suggesting, implying that Bethamin & Seta would want to return to Seanchan control territory after all?

 

  Or are you suggesting that the institution of the a'dam would in time be removed by Fortuona, and a new role would be created between the White Tower & the Seanchan?

 

 

  It is just highly difficult to see the Kin, Sea Folk, Wise Ones, and Aes Sedai all agreeing to work with the Sul'dam & Damane, if the a'dam is still in use & promoted by Fortuona to control female channelers. All four of those channelers groups view negatively the role of the a'dam in society, and that's not even considering the Asha'man role on this subject under Jahar's & Logain's leadership.

 

 

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In the back of my mind, one future situation that comes the forefront is the possibly that Raen & Ila (Tinkers) might some how have a role to play between Fortuona & Egwene.  Particular if Fortuona channels saidar herself.