[Red's Stnd Mafia] Saw Mafia - GAME OVER CONGRADS MAFIA!!

[Tigraine]

I am cursing Red right now to the fiery pits of Hades right now and you are all about to see why.... :P

 

Yesterday I was given a role....as back up finder.  Being only a back up finder, my ability is only 50% accurate.  I don't think that this is a useful ability at all, I think that it is a good role to get somebody lynched. 

 

Now before anybody says anything, I will go ahead and answer your questions.  They are the same questions that I would have so I'll answer those and anymore that anybody else wants me to. 

 

First, why should you believe me?  I can't answer that!  I could tell you to believe me because making this type of claim would be more damaging than beneficial and only a complete moron would try to claim it if it's not true.

 

Why did I reveal with absolutely no pressure or suspicion on me whatsoever?  Because it is getting late in the game, where all lynches are needed and maybe if you believe my claim then you will also know that I'm town and can eliminate me as a topic of a lynch. 

 

Did I send in a name last night?  Yes I did!  I sent in a name and got the results.  I will tell those results if everyone feels like it would be beneficial.  However, with a 50% accuracy, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be more hurtful than helpful. 

 

Any more questions, just ask!  I know that I'm gonna be under heavy fire for this but I figured going ahead and putting it out there would most benefit the town.

[DPR]

Alright, "back-up finder" implies that there was a finder, they have died, and now your role has been activated.

 

Jeran was listed as the "Dirty Cop", which explains the need for a back-up to be activated. "Dirty" is not listed on mafiascum.net, so I'm guessing that Red has invented it. And that means that anyone could make up an interpretation of it to false claim.

 

My thought is, why have a cop with a 50% accuracy rate? Even if you checked a player ywo or three nights in a row, it wouldn't matter, so the role is useless to the tow.

 

Red announced that a role had been sent to someone. I interpreted that to mean that because Jeran was mod-killed, Red gave someone else his role to balance the game. I'm open to other thoeries, but that was the first thing that popped into my head.

 

Is there anything else that you can tell us that will make this look like something other than a fake reveal?

 

I can't understand why the mafia would risk a fake reveal right now - they haven't lost a player yet, and all they have to do is lay low. But, a Cop with a 50/50 chance on correct results isn't even a role worth inventing.

 

We're going to need something else to go on here...

[Tigraine]

There really isn't anything more that I can tell you about the role.  My PM just said that random org. chose me to be the back-up finder.  That due to being a back-up finder my results would only be 50% accurate. 

 

I totally agree with you that this would be an easy role for the mafia to claim because if the person I say I checked comes out to be town when I said anti-town then, "hey, it's only 50%."  The only thing that I can hope is that you all would think that I am smarter than that.  I smart enough to know that this is a stupid role-claim, smart enough to know that nobody will believe me, and smart enough to know that it's basically suicide. 

 

I don't think that this is beneficial to the town because it will just make everything more confusing.  That's why I haven't told my results, because I don't see how they can help.

[DPR]

Fair enough - for better or worse, it's out there now. I imagine you will be pressured to reveal the results you got by both sides. There's no such thing as a half reveal...

 

I'll be interested to see what others make of this.

[Aust]

I am not sure what to make of it, to be honest. Is it generally accepted that the finder/back-up finder would be town alignment? My worry is that whatever results Torrie provides will distract us from looking at other evidence that has been generated so far.

 

Aemon, Torrie and Piano have been really quiet. We need to hear some more from them.

[aemonkristen]

Sorry. First day back at work. Had sixteen days off. You can imagine how hectic it's been just getting back into the swing of things. I must say that I'm shocked at Tig's claim that she is the back up finder. I can tell you for a fact that she is false revealing because I was PMed to take over the role of the "dirty cop". I know what you're all thinking. This comes down to a case of "he said, she said". Well, let's start with this: She made a VERY good guess as to what the rules would be for a back up, but she got one little detail wrong. It's not 50/50 accuracy on the viewing. Please. Red would never give anyone a role so lame as that. Even Tigs admits it's lame and pointless. The real stipulation is that I have a 50/50 chance of getting the information when I check. Last night I checked Verbal and unfortunately, got zip. Nada. Zilch. It's obvious that Tigs just wanted to draw me out, but, as even she stated, we can't afford to mislynch today. I am hoping that Verbal really is the healer, because if not, I'll be making my BLAH post in the morning. For all of the reasons above, I vote [glow=red,2,300]Tigraine[/glow].

[Guest dragonsworn1991]

17-36-59-18

 

I hate, hate, hate prs.  >:(

 

I'm pretty sure people give them to me just to mess with me

[Aust]

Holy role-reveal Batman!

 

I thought it was strange not to have the back-up finder role be a 50/50 chance of giving you info - 50% chance it being WRONG info is just going to create a lot of chaos.

 

Aemon you have been quiet throughout. Before this reveal you seemed suspicious to me. What you haven't explained is how Tigraine would even think up a role like that - whereas you may just be counterclaiming her.

 

Some other points to consider - we have had no counter-claim on the healer, so I'm inclined to believe Verbal. Also, DPR did not take the opportunity to lynch Verbal in the last day, so I'm inclined to categorize him with the town also.

 

Pete your code is a lot shorter than DPR's was...(his was 14-3-31-34-36-52-57-62-75 for reference)... I haven't seen any pattern to them yet either - has anyone else been able to decipher anything in all these numbers?

[DPR]

 

Uh...okay. Well, at least we know that somebody is lying, so we have significantly lowered the number of people we have to look at. Red said that she sent 1 pm out last night...

 

Tigs, you probably need to go ahead and show us the findings you received. 

 

I'm going to be quiet for right now becuase I really want to see what a few other people have to say. But I think it's real important for everybody in the game to post.

 

[dapianoplay3r]

I am still here

If its 50-50 how is there anyway of knowing so whats the point. Whos name did you send in?

I have a plan though. If it does come back mafia its the best lead we have at the moment really so 50-50 is better in that case. I still dont like it. Its basically flipping a coin on a player to get mafia or not

[Red2111]

Deadline

Wed March 3, 2010 @ 8pm CST; 8 alive, 5 to lynch

 

[glow=grey,2,300]clock: 08:48:34[/glow]

 

Vote Count

Tigs(1): Aemon

 

no vote(7): Aust, Torrie, Piano, Tigs, Verbal, Pete, DPR

 

 

[aemonkristen]

Aemon you have been quiet throughout. Before this reveal you seemed suspicious to me. What you haven't explained is how Tigraine would even think up a role like that - whereas you may just be counterclaiming her.

 

Yes, Aust, I do have a tendency to only post when I feel I have something important to post. I refer you to the Verbal/DPR debate.

 

Is anyone buying DPR's BS? Come on, I may be the newest player here, but even I'veheard all about how devious and manipulative he is. I think he's just trying to bully all of with his rep in games. Looak at it this way, if there's big game hunting going on, why wasn't he one of the first to be targeted? Doesn't that say something? He's gotta be one of the biggest ones here. And what's all this with the code? Why would he be asked to put a code in his post, decide to hide it, get offended when someone sees it and then try to claim that he's using it to flush out his "framer". Goood Lord people! Look at what he's saying. I don't believe a word of it. [glow=red,2,300]DPR[/glow] cause everything he's posted today makes no sense no matter which way I look at it.

 

When I feel I have something important to add to the conversation, I post my thoughts and ideas. Unfortunately, I have a tendency to read and analyze and NOT post if I have nothing worth contributing. I know that to many people this makes me look like a lurker, but I ask you to take a look at what I have posted and what I have done. I think that these will convince you that I'm telling the truth. I also ask you to look carefully at the role of "back-up cop/finder". Which of our roles seems the more logical to you? How did Tigs come up with the idea? I can only suppose that she deduced that there would be some sort of restriction on the role because of it being transferred to another person. I really can't say for certain how she came up with the idea.

[Torrie]

So we have two claims.

Both claims are restricted.

 

One was posted early with no pressure but has information to give us, we just don't know if it is right or wrong.

 

 

One has no information at all.

 

 

Tough decision.

 

 

I am going to wait until Tigs give us the info then I will place a vote.

[DPR]

 

I'm also going to wait for Tigs. I want to see how she plays this. I also want to see how Verbal plays it.

 

 

[Verbal32]

Oh boy oh boy do I have an opinion.  8)

 

First:

 

Aust - don't assume DPR is town just because he didn't push my lynch after a reveal....he would have been lynched the following day after my coroner report, and he knows it.  That does not make him innocent - it merely makes him smart, which we already know he is.

 

 

DPR - I'm also supremely interested on what Tigs has to say.  I'll hold off on my opinion until she posts.

[DPR]

 

Agreed on all points - it looks like we're thinking the same thing.

 

[Verbal32]

Oh I highly doubt that, but I'm willing to play along until Tigs posts.  I want to comment so badly, but I'm not going to lead the witness on this one.  ;)

[DPR]

 

You know, you're posts kind of give off an "I'm about to win" feeling more than a "we need to play it carefully" feeling. You keep baiting everyone with what you have to say - why not just say it?

[Verbal32]

I'm town, Wes.  We are about to LOSE unless we lynch correctly.  And you are majorly giving yourself away here.  Why would I bait when a correct lynch from the town might ruin me? (if I was mafia, which I'm not)

 

No, no....you're still mafia, Wes.  I haven't let go of that, but I think I have 1, if not both, of your teammates nailed down as well.

 

First things first:  this talk about somebody giving PRs is a crock.  This is a standard game - have you seen any specialized roles?  At all?  Nope.  Nada.  There are no PR givers here, I think.  I'm pretty sure that Pete has just been forced to throw in a code, but decided to play along your "I'm forced to" game and just post it without trying to hide it, like you did.

 

I've revealed as the Healer.  With Jeran dead, we can't know who he viewed.  This is basically endgame people.  With a standard setup, we can expect 3 mafia vs 8 town vs 1 solo.

 

The 1 solo is dead.

There are 3 town dead.

 

There are now likely 3 mafia vs 5 town, for our 8 players today.  If we mislynch and hit town, we're down to the mafia getting a NK and they win.  We wake up with a 3-3 tie tomorrow, and that is game over and mafia win.

 

So....endgame today people.

 

Here's my shot at the mafia (I'm not waiting any longer for Tigs...you'll see why):

 

DPR

Tigs

Pete

 

There you go.  My reasons on DPR have been previously stated and restated, and I'm still not certain why we've let him live.  It is a nod to his skill that he's still alive.

 

Pete?  Mostly becuase of 2 reasons.  First, he posted the code.  I repeat - only mafia have the code.  And I repeat again - this is a standard game and I highly doubt there are PR givers in here.  And yes, I'm willing to hinge the game on this.  Secondly, he's played carefully to stay away from DPR all game, not counting Day 1.

 

Tigs?  Mostly because of what I believe is a fake reveal.  The mafia were in an excellent position to be first to reveal the backup role as they would be able to remove one of them from lynch contention.  And if a counter reveal occured, even better, as removing a townie and a mafia leaves us 2-4 in favor of lynching a townie, where before it is 3-5...better chances to lynch mafia.

 

The numbers dictate a false reveal by the mafia, and seeing as I believe DPR is the ringleader there, that's exactly what they did.

 

 

And for posterity, here's why I don't think Aust, Torrie, or Aemon are mafia.  I have no reading on player, other than being on the DPR lynch yesterday, which is a good thing.

 

Aust - would not have voted for DPR as vote #4 (ish) on Day 1, as that is a VERY dangerous bandwagon vote and can easily let the train pick up steam and lynch a teammate on Day 1.  Too risky.  I'm still shocked he revoted me yesterday, but I'm willing to chalk that up to an oops. (and a thwap)

 

Torrie - DPR singled her out to put heat on her while I mentioned big game hunting, which would have been super risky if a couple of us chimed in.  Ed voted for her, Nae and I could have easily jumped over, and that train would have been off.  DPR doesn't risk that, imo.

 

Aemon - would not have voted DPR if they were teammates on Day 2 after I posted that DPR hid code in his post.  It was obvious I was on the attack, and he joined in.  Again, no way a teammate does that when the game is rolling well for them.  And he kept his vote on when it looking hopeful we would lynch DPR.  Townie behavior, there.

 

 

Ok, that's what I've got.  Let's go for round two, Wes.  ;)

 

[glow=red,2,300]DPR[/glow]

[Red2111]

Deadline

Wed March 3, 2010 @ 8pm CST; 8 alive, 5 to lynch

 

[glow=grey,2,300]clock: 08:42:12[/glow]

 

Vote Count

Tigs(1): Aemon

Wes(1): Verbal

 

no vote(6): Aust, Torrie, Tigs, Player, Pete, Wes

[Torrie]

Nope, I'm going leave that dog alone.

 

 

Back to the problem at hand:

 

Tiggs:

Yesterday I was given a role....as back up finder.  Being only a back up finder, my ability is only 50% accurate.  I don't think that this is a useful ability at all, I think that it is a good role to get somebody lynched. 

 

Now before anybody says anything, I will go ahead and answer your questions.  They are the same questions that I would have so I'll answer those and anymore that anybody else wants me to. 

 

First, why should you believe me?  I can't answer that!  I could tell you to believe me because making this type of claim would be more damaging than beneficial and only a complete moron would try to claim it if it's not true.

 

Why did I reveal with absolutely no pressure or suspicion on me whatsoever?  Because it is getting late in the game, where all lynches are needed and maybe if you believe my claim then you will also know that I'm town and can eliminate me as a topic of a lynch. 

 

Did I send in a name last night?  Yes I did!  I sent in a name and got the results.  I will tell those results if everyone feels like it would be beneficial.  However, with a 50% accuracy, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be more hurtful than helpful. 

 

Any more questions, just ask!  I know that I'm gonna be under heavy fire for this but I figured going ahead and putting it out there would most benefit the town.

 

 

 

 

aemonkristen:

Sorry. First day back at work. Had sixteen days off. You can imagine how hectic it's been just getting back into the swing of things. I must say that I'm shocked at Tig's claim that she is the back up finder. I can tell you for a fact that she is false revealing because I was PMed to take over the role of the "dirty cop". I know what you're all thinking. This comes down to a case of "he said, she said". Well, let's start with this: She made a VERY good guess as to what the rules would be for a back up, but she got one little detail wrong. It's not 50/50 accuracy on the viewing. Please. Red would never give anyone a role so lame as that. Even Tigs admits it's lame and pointless. The real stipulation is that I have a 50/50 chance of getting the information when I check. Last night I checked Verbal and unfortunately, got zip. Nada. Zilch. It's obvious that Tigs just wanted to draw me out, but, as even she stated, we can't afford to mislynch today. I am hoping that Verbal really is the healer, because if not, I'll be making my BLAH post in the morning. For all of the reasons above, I vote Tigraine.

 

 

I am going with what I have seen in the past. aemonkristen has a restriction I have seen before, Tiggs does not. I believe aemonkristen in this situation. Once Tiggs posted I may change my mind.[glow=red,2,300]Tiggs[/glow]

[aemonkristen]

I agree withVerbal that there is a high probability that DPR is mafia, but I know FOR A FACT that Tigs is scum. I think that we should get her first. I'm just nervous about a mislynch today.

[Red2111]

Deadline

Wed March 3, 2010 @ 8pm CST; 8 alive, 5 to lynch

 

[glow=grey,2,300]clock: 08:36:27[/glow]

 

Vote Count

Tigs(2): Aemon, Torrie

Wes(1): Verbal

 

no vote(5): Aust, Tigs, Player, Pete, Wes

 

[Verbal32]

I am going with what I have seen in the past. aemonkristen has a restriction I have seen before, Tiggs does not. I believe aemonkristen in this situation. Once Tiggs posted I may change my mind.[glow=red,2,300]Tiggs[/glow]

 

Tigs has a "restriction" I've seen (and used as a Mod) before many times.  They both have.  However, I do agree with you that Tigs is mafia.  But I contend that DPR being likely mafia is the problem at hand.  He is the biggest threat.

 

 

I agree withVerbal that there is a high probability that DPR is mafia, but I know FOR A FACT that Tigs is scum. I think that we should get her first. I'm just nervous about a mislynch today.

 

Ok, I can appreciate that.  My reasoning for wanting DPR gone first is that his scheming can sometimes turn the game around, and being on the brink of a loss as we are, I'd rather take out the ringleader.

 

 

 

 

Either way, we need 100% town cooperation if we are going to nail a mafia today.  With 3 of them, they'd be silly to sac themselves, as they don't know whether you all believe me on who is mafia.  Too big a risk for them to take.  Yes, I'm baiting them with this post.  Go ahead mafia, lynch one of your own.

 

I'll wait for player and Aust before potentially changing my vote.  On a randomly not-so-funny side note, I've actually never been able to successfully lynch DPR.  I'm starting to build a complex about it people.  Regardless of my alignment in any given game, I can't seem to get rid of him dammit!  :D

[DPR]

 

Verb, those are two of the scummiest posts I think I've ever seen.  :P

 

- You clearly post that you think we have an outed mafia, and you still vote for me? That's ridiculous...and as anti-town as it gets.

- You invite me to round and round with you again at the possible endgame to do what? Distract people from the situation at hand? Scummy move...

- I won't even get into the comments about be except to say this; metagame much? You want to lynch me because I could be dangerous when you have the field narrowed down to two Finder reveals? Total scum...

 

Since I think I have a prety good handel on what's happening, I'll go ahead and vote [glow=red,2,300]Tigs[/glow].

 

Verb, you yourself pointed out that this is a "Standard Game setup". There is no "Back-Up" role. It was a slip on Tigs part as she fake revealed, and you are trying to cover for it with some ridiculous argument against me.

 

So, I'm prediciting that we'll lynch a mafia today, and I'll get whacked tonight. Healer - cheers for not revealing against Verbal's fake claim! You saved thegame with that move. Keep the protection on Aemon tonight and the town can lynch Verbal tomorrow. Then it will be 4 townies to one mafia, and we'll win with an advantage like that.

 

Let's keep our eyes on the prize!