Moraine and The Tower of Ghenjei

[Nightstrike]

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, BYU Midnight Release 27 October 2009 - Jennifer McBride reporting

She sees the Pattern as it will be.

 

Moiraine will be rescued. No doubt about it. None.

[alligator]

She goes on, hiding her newfound enhanced [strength] in the OP so that no one in the AoL will realize what she did. (I believe there is a quote somewhere to support this--[that she hid her ability almost constantly]).

 

Okay, so I know this topic is kind of old, but I am currently re-reading The Great Hunt and came across this quote. It might be something that you're looking for, rubbernilly.

 

This is from chapter 7, when Verin is discussing the mention of Lanfear in the Dark Prophecy.

 

Some said she had really been the most powerful of the Forsaken, next to Ishamael, the Betrayer of Hope, but had kept her powers hidden.

 

Unless it refers to her other powers-- like control of TAR, or some such-- it seems like it might fit in with what you've been saying.

[rubbernilly]

I believe that is the quote I was thinking of, alligator! That's awesome... thanks!

[Nightstrike]

If her powers were hidden, then how come people have noticed that she is weaker? If some noticed she was weaker, then how come noone has thought about it? Noone connects it to the possibility that Cyndane is Lanfear reincarnated.

[alligator]

You're quite welcome  :)

 

I agree, some of the implications of Lanfear being enhanced don't make perfect sense (as Nightstrike has pointed out), but I like the idea...

[rubbernilly]

OK, here's a couple of things to throw into the mix and possibly explain why I still think that it's possible that Lanfear was enhanced.

 

I say that Lanfear hid her ability.

Nightstrike says that Graendal *had* to have sensed her strength at some point in order to comment to Moridin that Cyndane was less powerful than Lanfear... and that Graendal should have also noted that Cyndane's strength was equal to that of Lanfear's pre-enhancement level... possibly even wondering if this was Lanfear-recycled. In the end, Nightstrike argues that the other Forsaken had to know that she was enhanced, and that they would have opted for that themselves.

 

Try this on as an explanation.

 

You have to remember that in the AoL, there was a whole world full of people. Who's to say that Graendal even knew Lanfear before they both went to the shadow (or, more importantly, before Lanfear became enhanced)? Graendal, along with the other Forsaken, could have no frame of reference for Lanfear's pre-enhancement strength. Even if she did know Lanfear before Lanfear became enhanced, Lanfear hid her strength.

 

So, there are at least two options for Graendal still having an opportunity to observe/feel lanfear's strength prior to making the comment to Moridin that Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear.

 

First, Lanfear could have stopped hiding her abilities at some point -- especially if no one was alive who had known her prior to becoming enhanced. If none of the Forsaken knew her (pre-enhancement), there might not be anyone left who could remember.

 

On the other hand, it is possible that Lanfear kept her ability hidden even going forward to the "present day."  So how could Graendal make her comment without knowing what Lanfear's true strength had been, post-enhancement? It’s possible that at some point Graendal witnessed Lanfear do something that required a great deal of strength… which would allow Graendal to infer something of Lanfear’s strength. Without knowing what Lanfear’s true strength is, she could know that Cyndane is not strong enough to do that feat that Graendal witnessed Lanfear perform.

 

In other words, it’s still possible. :)

 

[Asgard Thorin]

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, BYU Midnight Release 27 October 2009 - Jennifer McBride reporting

She sees the Pattern as it will be.

 

Moiraine will be rescued. No doubt about it. None.

 

Moiraine has to be rescued. Min had a vision that said Rand would lose without "a woman that was dead" I believe was the quote. I'm thinking Moiraine-Cadsuane-Rand link upon Callandor making balefire after You-know-Who breaks the You-know-Whats to let Someone in where...Well, Min's vision mentioned Moiraine.

I think Noal is Farstrider, and that he was forced to become a Darkfriend by Ish. I think helping Moiraine might be his own Ingtar moment.

[Druugan]

I have to say that I am a supporter of the enhanced Lanfear theory.  As for her having visited the Finns back in the AoL with the intent or at least result of getting the alleged enhancement, didn't she brag to Rand about traveling to other worlds back in the AoL?  Perhaps one of those worlds was the world of the Finns, as a precursor to making the ter'angreal doorway to go back.  Or maybe she was specifically referring to those doorways (or the ToG) when talking about traveling to other worlds.  This isn't solid evidence by any stretch, just a thought.

[scion9]

I don't think there is any solid reason to believe Lanfear was 'enhanced'.  It seems pulled from thin air.  It's not impossible, but if we put our mind to it we can certainly think of many things that are both not impossible but also very much untrue or unlikely to occur.

 

There also doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement that the Finns can enhance someone in the way that is being conjectured here.  BS said not permanently, and with the use of items of the Power.  The rebuttal to that is that it wasn't 'permanent' since Lanfear was reduced upon being transmigrated.  If the 'boost' is effective until she dies, then it is for all normal uses of the word, permanent.

 

I'm sure we'll find out what happens with Lanfear and Moiraine soon enough, anyway.  The most likely answer for Cyndane being weaker than Lanfear is that she was stilled/burned out and healed by a woman.

 

As for Lanfear hiding her 'power', that is certainly a nebulous term.  Remember, even to Verin, very little is known about the Forsaken and apparently Lanfear less than most.  Presumably the more they know about a particular Forsaken the more powerful and influential they were in the War of Power.  Lanfear 'hiding her power' could mean more simply that she was the real Spider and grand schemer among the Forsaken, and not Moghedien or Ishmael; which Lanfear I believe referenes as being her pespective on the matter.  Her freeing the Dark One alone is huge, and presumably lost to history. 

 

Slightly On Topic, but isn't there some in-setting katabasis about a King saving his Queen from the Underworld, similar to Orpheus and Eurydice?  I'd assume Jordan was drawing upon that particular mytheme (which is itself an important theme to the setting.)  That alone should foreshadow Moiraine being rescued.  Although Orpheus technically fails in this Age's mythology.

[Crossroad]

Nice work here guys will check back in a couple of weeks to see how the debates going.