How Will Rand Defeat the Dark One? (Full Spoilers)

[Techqn]

Also, lots of people were wondering about the whole 'blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul' but the majority of the prophecies arn't what they sound like. Maybe Rand's blood means his family (if any of them are still alive) or something like that

 

Thats what I meant by saying "his blood is his people's blood"...the Aiel...

 

I have been going back to the old books especially "Shadow Rising"...when Rand walks back in time in Rhuidean. Something struck me in one of the last comments from his last ancestor (Charn) the 'Jenn Aiel'...Charn gets excited and bumps into a "citizen" and at that time he feels the "ripple" and recalls that one of the Aes Sedai said they were testing a new source of power. (shadow rising; the dedicated; chapter 26, pge 436) STATES:

 

"Merin said today was the day. She said she had found a new source for the One Power. Female and Male AS would be able to tap the same source, not separate halves. What men and women could do united would be even greater now that there would be no differences. And today she and Beidomon would tap it for the first time--the last time men and women would work together wielding a different power. Today."

 

Then the same charatcter "Charn" explains how he sees the Sharom break apart and darkness spread across the sky. Rand thinks he saw the creation  of the whole being drilled into the prison when he comes out of that vision of the past. 

AND In those same passages one of the characters states that "Lanfear was not always evil" ..

 

Something tells me that the past is a key to the future!!  What power were those old AS wielding before the bore was touched????

Could Lanfear be turned? Or is it Ishy that turns and helps Rand? Do the Tuathen (Jenn Aiel) sing with the Ogiers (like they did back then with the Nyms) to help? They tried to stand against one of the male AS to stop him, so they may be able to heal the pattern!

 

they all link together somehow...but the key is in the past...it has to be otherwise why take us down that road and show us??  RJ had his ending and his plan way back then in those early books, he set the waves for us to see, we just havent found it yet.

 

Anyone??  Thoughts??

 

 

 

 

[FarShainMael]

My first thought is that (AIUI) the Wheel is turned by male (saidin) and female (saidar) working against each other. If male and female now tap the same source, whatever that source may be, the Wheel stops turning.. which may be exactly what the DO wants!

 

[Techqn]

Ok so your saying that the past thing about a united power,  was  the oppsie that caused the DO to break free? then why would Rand ask himself about his seeing the DO's bore?

 

What was left out of his visions of the past that we should have seen?  the world without a DO?

Makes my head hurt after awhile! LOL

 

I still think he needs to mesh the 3 (meaning TP and One Power (m and f) ) using Callendor...even GS states something about Callendor being mis-read when Min talks with Cadsuane about it.  There is a key in that statement and she finds it. 

 

And; does anyone agree with me that the "blood on the rocks" could mean the Aiel?

 

 

[Majsju]

The "united" power lanfear and her team discovered was the True Power, ie the very essence of the DO.

 

Which should be a quite major hint that the key to sealing the Bore does not lie in some unholy combination of OP and TP. Had that been the case, there would not have been any reason for Lanfear to drill the bore in order to actually touch the TP, it would already be there. And the Aes Sedai of the AOL would definitly have noticed if there were some weird patch made with the OP floating around.

[FarShainMael]

Ok so your saying that the past thing about a united power,  was  the oppsie that caused the DO to break free?

Possibly.

 

then why would Rand ask himself about his seeing the DO's bore?

 

could you clarify this a bit please.

 

does anyone agree with me that the "blood on the rocks" could mean the  Aiel?

 

Seems unlikely. This from EncWOT, TGH Ch26:

 

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

That's pretty clear that it's Rand's actual cardiovascular fluid leaking out onto the rocks. Of course, he doesn't necessarily have to die when this happens; his 'death' may be due to other factors.

 

 

[mb]

The title assumes that Rand would be the one who defeats the Dark One.

The Dark One might be defeated by someone else.

 

[Techqn]

The "united" power lanfear and her team discovered was the True Power, ie the very essence of the DO.

 

Which should be a quite major hint that the key to sealing the Bore does not lie in some unholy combination of OP and TP. Had that been the case, there would not have been any reason for Lanfear to drill the bore in order to actually touch the TP, it would already be there. And the Aes Sedai of the AOL would definitely have noticed if there were some weird patch made with the OP floating around.

 

Maybe, but I dont think so. There was no mention of Lanfear. It was the other AS Meriin and a male Beidomen.

It could be that this united power they went to use got out of control and that was how the "darkness spread" etc..

Then maybe later Lanfear and her team figured out someone did something and they could touch DO...but your guessing when you think the AS of AOL would have noticed. Remember we were only shown a brief glimpse of this past through a vision of Rand's ancestors. We dont know. (Only RJ knows. LOL)

 

We dont know that there isnt a United power that isnt the TP. After all if the One Power is broken, male, female, and then there is the TP (which belongs to DO) then it makes sense that there has to be the opposite of TP (DO). Meaning there is a "good power" that isnt broken.

Get my meaning? the creator put DO away with "something"... DO is TP..so there has to be an opposite. 

Lews has said "we have to touch him to put him away" and when they do that is how Saidin was tainted.  So then we ask ourselves this; How did the creator do it? 

We let him out messing with stuff we shouldnt have, and the seals were a patch. If this is really the "last batter" then something miraculous that we dont know about, has to be there to put DO away forever.

 

It could be something as silly as 'unselfishness" and the gift of Rand dying for the land.  RJ always said that he was trying to mirror our worlds view with his (in a way)... ??

[Sharaman]

The "united" power lanfear and her team discovered was the True Power, ie the very essence of the DO.

 

Which should be a quite major hint that the key to sealing the Bore does not lie in some unholy combination of OP and TP. Had that been the case, there would not have been any reason for Lanfear to drill the bore in order to actually touch the TP, it would already be there. And the Aes Sedai of the AOL would definitely have noticed if there were some weird patch made with the OP floating around.

 

Maybe, but I dont think so. There was no mention of Lanfear. It was the other AS Meriin and a male Beidomen.

 

Meirin Eronaile renamed herself Lanfear.

[birtikidis]

techqn, isn't the true source the opposite of the true power?

[Techqn]

She renamed herself?

Ok where the heck was that and which book did I miss that in? LOL

And if she did, then she wasnt always evil, as they say, but something changed her. Obviously.

 

I still believe (as others I read with) that there has to be an opposite of the TP...one that the creator used. I think somehow if you united the One power together, not separate, then maybe you have it.  Maybe when the creator sealed the DO, we "plucked the apple from the tree" shall we say, and used the power which then became separate halves?

I dunno, seems to me if you have a One Power and you have a TP then why as humans do they use the OP separately? The creator used something so that is what I am looking for. The opposite of the TP, which we have yet to touch, since we are merely human, and not the creator.

 

Just thoughts...

 

[Techqn]

Also if the Unted power was the TP as you say, and thats how they let DO out, then there still has to be a opposite of TP...Because your saying that the TP is the united power...so that still leaves something out. :)

[mb]

The title of this thread might be inaccurate; the Dark One might be defeated by someone else than Rand.

 

[OptimusPrime]

She renamed herself?

Ok where the heck was that and which book did I miss that in? LOL

 

In the Age of Legends people were given names for their accomplishments. When the Forsaken turned they were given the names we know them by now; Elan Moridin Tedronai the philospher was named Ishamael/Betrayer of Hope, Tel Janin Aellinsar was named Sammael/Destroyer of Hope, and so on. Meirin was the only of the 13 we know that picked her name; she named herself Lanfear, Daughter of the Night.

 

And if she did, then she wasnt always evil, as they say, but something changed her. Obviously.

 

Sorry, but I have to derail that one.

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/tor-questions-of-week.html

 

Week 12 Question: Who was Beidomon, who helped Lanfear with the project that lead to the drilling of the Bore? Did he figure in the later events at the end of the Age of Legends?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Beidomon was a male Aes Sedai, and a research genius, who believed that they were onto something great. The drilling of the Bore itself caused great damage, and Beidomon, Lanfear and others involved were blamed for that. Once it became clear what had actually happened, the opprobrium increased, and Beidomon sought obscurity, finally committing suicide when he was unable to achieve it. Everyone knew his name, and what he had done. He had nowhere to hide.

 

As an aside, for those who think that Lanfear was in some way twisted against her will by being involved in drilling the Bore---I have heard the theory advanced---of all those involved in the project, she was the only major figure to go over to the Shadow. She was ripe for the Shadow's plucking long before the Bore was drilled.

[Techqn]

Well we know Lanny was a "ambitous witch" and even LTT hated her for that. So yeah she was starting down that path anyway. (To Star Wars if you ask me..but selfishness was DO's thing)

So the opposite of selfishness is kindess and compassion. One who would die for someone else to live. So we know what can be used against DO.

But if Elan (Moridrin) was there in the beginning maybe in someway he can change?  He gives me clues that he acts like it. Instead of killing Rand in Aridol he helped him. ? K???  Maybe since he is Moridrin and tied to Rand, he may help??  everyone assumes Rand will kill the DO and I have to agree with some people out there that it may not be him.

 

Even Luke's (star wars) father was the one who made the sacrifice for the greater good.

 

BTW

I did ask where that was heard about the names, and since you didnt mention a book so I assume it was some interview with RJ.

Ok well I missed out. I didnt soak my life into this series until just recently, now knowing the ending is coming.

 

I think now I will just wait for the last books and go find a new series to read for awhile.  After all I dont want to be that kid at Xmas who ruins the presents by guessing whats in them....aka the ending. :)

I just wanted to Theorize.

 

thanks all

have fun

see you when the next book comes out!

 

 

[thewalrus777]

You can find the mention of Lanfear/Meirin and Beidomon in the book "The World of The Wheel of Time" or as we refer to it as the Big White Book or BWB. And RJ has commented on the subject as well as was posted earlier in this thread by Drekka Mort or the artist formally known as Optimus Prime.

[Sharaman]

BTW

I did ask where that was heard about the names, and since you didnt mention a book so I assume it was some interview with RJ.

Ok well I missed out. I didnt soak my life into this series until just recently, now knowing the ending is coming.

 

TSR, Rand (using LTT's memories) addresses her as "Meirin" when she comes to the Stone of Tear - "You only ever loved Power. Meirin" or something like that. She takes it from him.

Then at Rhuidean, Asmodean addresses her as Meirin  and face contorted with rage she says "Don't call me that".

 

[Agitel]

Well we know Lanny was a "ambitous witch" and even LTT hated her for that. So yeah she was starting down that path anyway. (To Star Wars if you ask me..but selfishness was DO's thing)

So the opposite of selfishness is kindess and compassion. One who would die for someone else to live. So we know what can be used against DO.

But if Elan (Moridrin) was there in the beginning maybe in someway he can change?   He gives me clues that he acts like it. Instead of killing Rand in Aridol he helped him. ? K???  Maybe since he is Moridrin and tied to Rand, he may help??  everyone assumes Rand will kill the DO and I have to agree with some people out there that it may not be him.

 

Moridin doesn't kill Rand because the Dark One wants Rand alive. It's the game of sha'rah, and Rand is the Fisher. The Shadow has been working to manipulate Rand by spreading chaos and hopes to corrupt Rand. This corruption is in part the hardness that Rand takes upon himself that Cadsuane wishes to cure him of.

[Sudhir]

In my thinking Rand will use the 'True Power" to seal the bore. We know that none of the One Powers can touch the bore without getting corrupted, As we know Rand can now channel the True Power he will use it to seal the bore.

 

I was also wondering does the last sentence in the 12th book stating that the Blind man now can see again on top of dragon mount (the event which has occurred philosophically) mean that Rand is not going to go blind?

 

I think the last book (14) will involve Rand fighting and then working with Morodin to seal the bore (I think he will turn him to light). Fain's story will end in Book 13 as he is not a core story character anymore. We have seen Mr. Jordan spending a lot of time on a character (Prophet) and then finishing him in one chapter.

 

Mat will rescue Moirane (everyone knows this)and lead the Armies of united Light forces to the war. Perin has to fight 'Slayer" which also i think will happen in the next book at the same time when Mat is rescuing Moirane and somehow his killing Slayer will give Mat the edge to escape the Aeilfin with one less eye :). We have seen many such parallel story lines connecting at end before, and Slayer has some connection with the Aelfil and Eelfin.

 

Perin will then take charge of the battle against the shadow in the Dream world with the help of wolves as he is most suited for the same.

[mossman87]

Also if the Unted power was the TP as you say, and thats how they let DO out, then there still has to be a opposite of TP...Because your saying that the TP is the united power...so that still leaves something out. :)

 

That would be Mordeth, ie Fain.  Check out the Cleansing, among other things, like Rand's wound.

 

Also to the idea of sealing the DO up with the TP, the True Power destroys the Pattern, you can't heal a wound with the same thing that destroys it.  I really do believe Rand's wound is showing us how it needs to be done, the DO distracted and fighting Mordeth while Saidin and Saidar come together and repair the Pattern where the hole is at.

[Aquarius]

That would be Mordeth, ie Fain.  Check out the Cleansing, among other things, like Rand's wound.

 

Also to the idea of sealing the DO up with the TP, the True Power destroys the Pattern, you can't heal a wound with the same thing that destroys it.  I really do believe Rand's wound is showing us how it needs to be done, the DO distracted and fighting Mordeth while Saidin and Saidar come together and repair the Pattern where the hole is at.

If I've got my WoTmythology right, then that's only a solution that will last up to the next turning of the wheel when some new Lanfear will drill once more throught it to tap into a new undreamt-before-power. Is that right ? That's not a different turning.

 

[NARISMA]

If I am correct,few times in TGS Rand talks about killing the Dark One,maybe that is the answer,but I doubt it.That would destroy the whole balance thing that RJ based this world on to

[Caveman_Nick]

Also to the idea of sealing the DO up with the TP, the True Power destroys the Pattern, you can't heal a wound with the same thing that destroys it.  I really do believe Rand's wound is showing us how it needs to be done, the DO distracted and fighting Mordeth while Saidin and Saidar come together and repair the Pattern where the hole is at.

 

I have thought Fain would be crucial to what happened at the last battle for some time and somehow he integral in defeating the DO.  The cleansing of saidin is a tip off to this as you mention.

 

As far as the use of the TP goes, I think that if it is used to seal the prison of the DO, it will be used not to make the seal, but to buffer the True Source from the DO.  Remember Lews Therin said that the flaw in the plan was that something had to touch the DO, and all they had was saidin.  He specifically noted that they could not make a circle, so maybe saidin and saidar used together would fend off the taint, or maybe they need the TP, as predicted in the "Three become One" prophecy (one of the possible meanings)

[Nightstrike]

Fain might kill someone of Rand's enemies. Shaidar Haran, Slayer, or maybe someone else?

 

Undoing the Bore is done every full turning of the Wheel. Fain is a new concept, so I don't think he will be undoing the Bore. Fain can't go up against the DO himself. Not even a contest.

 

I think it might have something to do with Talisman of growing, the three ta'veren, and/or maybe something else? I don't know exactly how it can happen. It's a big RAFO.

 

 

[Techqn]

Ok

thank you for showing me where she is mentioned. Like I said I have had to go back to the old books sometimes.

I still think and agree with others here

that Saidin, Saidar will be used WITH TP in Callendor to Redo what the Creator made in the original Bore/Seal. And in doing SO TP will touch DO as the pusher/buffer to bind him. And the united pure power of Saidin and Saidar will Seal It as good as the creator.

Then no more One power.  Creator says..no more you bad humans touched it together and your didnt listen and you let him out so you no play with one power anymore!

So then the wheel turns (or they find out that the wheel is actually a planet with a sun and science! LOL) and no more DO, no more people with witch/god like powers to break out DO and whaalaa brave new world with no possible way to let DO out for another series! :)

 

Oh and the next book is Towers, so you know you got Logain battling Taim, and Black tower vs White Tower (or the good parts battling the bad parts cause the towers are still a bit broken) and Moriane has to get out.

I think Matt can find the way to get her out if he goes to Perrin and learns what Briggite told him about the tower of genji (shadow rising-tower of genji) in "how to trick the aelfinn/eilfinn" CHEAT!  with "Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to ? and iron to bind"!  ha ha got it...now you know how to cheat at snakes and foxes! :)

[mossman87]

That would be Mordeth, ie Fain.  Check out the Cleansing, among other things, like Rand's wound.

 

Also to the idea of sealing the DO up with the TP, the True Power destroys the Pattern, you can't heal a wound with the same thing that destroys it.  I really do believe Rand's wound is showing us how it needs to be done, the DO distracted and fighting Mordeth while Saidin and Saidar come together and repair the Pattern where the hole is at.

If I've got my WoTmythology right, then that's only a solution that will last up to the next turning of the wheel when some new Lanfear will drill once more throught it to tap into a new undreamt-before-power. Is that right ? That's not a different turning.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not quite sure this turning will be any different.  I only mentioned Fain in the other thread because as of now it's the only thing we have author confirmation on that is unique to this Age, so with that I'm just throwing out ideas on how that'll be utilized.