Who is Olver really?

[jeffsim17]

I have to say I am new to the WOT universe. I have read all of the books including TGS. Which I have to say was the best so far. Does anybody else think Olver is in fact Birgette's ugly boyfriend from the legends of the Horn of Valor? And if so, How would Olver and Birgette get together?

[Leatherleaf]

By all logic Olver cannot be Gaidal Cain, no matter how much I and many others want him to be. Olver would have been alive when Mat blew the Horn of Valere, and Gaidal Cain was present there, conclusively debunking the Olver-Gaidal connection.

 

However, logic can fail, which it hopefully will. In the case that Olver is Gaidal, then I think in a few years he's going to be cougar-hunting, and Birgitte's the prey ;D.

 

And whether or not Olver is Gaidal, Gaidal is supposed to be born pretty soon according to Birgitte. I think that Birgitte will likely be recycled back into her regular Hero of the Horn role, however, where Gaidal usually is born first, I think that from now on Birgitte will be born first. Birgitte and Gaidal will retain their connection, but their ages will be different.

 

As for Olver, it's possible that while he may not be Gaidal, he could be another Hero, or he could be a nobody. Nevertheless, his ugliness just might grant him a shot with Birgitte in a couple years no matter who he is ;).

[Usernameless]

Spoiler Alert!

 

Olver killed Asmodean  :o

[ed2funy]

Olver is a little (Cairhien?) boy who's parents died when the Shaido came over the Dragonwall.

 

That. Is. All.

 

:)

[whizbangdelux]

This is just me, but I believe that truthfully Olver isn't ugly at all.   Mat just sees Olver that way because Olver subconsciously reminds Mat of himself.   Mat is projecting. 

I don't think all the women would be insanely maternal with Olver if he was really such an ugly kid.   They're coddling him the same way Tylin coddled Mat.   All of Olver's womanizing ways are coming from Mat, too.  Jordan is being ironic.

[Luckers]

Olver is not Gaidal Cain. RJ stated it flat out. Secondly whilst time moves funny between the real world and the dream world, it never moves backwards--Olver was alive at a time when Gaidal was seen in TAR.

 

 

[Mr. Dragon]

This is just me, but I believe that truthfully Olver isn't ugly at all.   Mat just sees Olver that way because Olver subconsciously reminds Mat of himself.   Mat is projecting.   

I don't think all the women would be insanely maternal with Olver if he was really such an ugly kid.   They're coddling him the same way Tylin coddled Mat.   All of Olver's womanizing ways are coming from Mat, too.  Jordan is being ironic.

 

We have confirmation of Olver uglyness from Karede in KoD, page 730 in hardback:

 

'A gnarled old fellow with long white hair was lying on another blanket with a remarkable ugly boy'

[Vulgir]

It's obvious that Olver is Demandred. Next question.

[Dmitri]

And I always knew Olver is Mesaana! ;D

 

Just think of the possibilities she'll have!  ;)

[The Fisher King]

Olver is a little (Cairhien?) boy who's parents died when the Shaido came over the Dragonwall.

 

That. Is. All.

 

Thank the Light SOMEONE is still sane lol! ;)

 

Also:

 

Bela is a horse, noone is Demandred and we don't KNOW who killed Asmodean!!!

 

 

Fish

 

[acerbus80]

I beg to differ Fisher King.

 

 

Spoiler Alert:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I killed Asmodean.

[ed2funy]

Olver is a little (Cairhien?) boy who's parents died when the Shaido came over the Dragonwall.

 

That. Is. All.

 

Thank the Light SOMEONE is still sane lol! ;)

 

Also:

 

Bela is a horse, noone is Demandred and we don't KNOW who killed Asmodean!!!

 

 

Fish

 

 

I am sane sir, and I am sorry to see you have gone into insanity.

 

Pray to Bela, and she may save your soul.

:D

 

I have a feeling that Asha'man Acerbus killed Asmodean...

While he was in service to Bela, of course. ;D

[mb]

Robert Jordan told that Olver is not Gaidal Cain.

 

Olver did not kill Asmodean. (That was most likely Graendal.)

Olver is not Demandred nor Mesaana.

 

 

Bela is not a deity; praying to her would not make any difference.

 

[ed2funy]

*waits for mb to be smote with Holy Fire*

Olver is just a boy, who will become one of Mat's generals.

[jeffsim17]

  I have to agree with most of the posts that say Olver can't be Gaidal, but then why have Olver in the story at all? He does not seem to be very vital in any of the numerous plots in the wot. Unless he has yet to play a major role in the last two books,which is likely.

 

  It still nags me as odd that RJ pointed out through his characters, time and again that he is "ugly"

He could of said that Olver was a average looking lad, or a soft and pretty boy. But RJ didn't he wanted us to know that Olver was an "ugly" boy, though he is charming.

 

  Now what other character is close to the term "ugly", See what I am getting at? For some reason I still think

there is an Olver/Birgitte connection.

 

[ed2funy]

Some characters are just there as fillers.

Not every character needs to be the hero or the bad guy.

Just saying...there needs to be minor characters.

[Majsju]

  I have to agree with most of the posts that say Olver can't be Gaidal, but then why have Olver in the story at all? He does not seem to be very vital in any of the numerous plots in the wot. Unless he has yet to play a major role in the last two books,which is likely.

 

Well, if you have read KOD, you should have noticed a quite important part Olver might play in the future.

Also, having Olver around has been crucial for the development of Mats character. Taking care of Olver is perhaps the largest factor in his growing maturity.

[Lola]

  I have to agree with most of the posts that say Olver can't be Gaidal, but then why have Olver in the story at all? He does not seem to be very vital in any of the numerous plots in the wot. Unless he has yet to play a major role in the last two books,which is likely.

 

  It still nags me as odd that RJ pointed out through his characters, time and again that he is "ugly"

He could of said that Olver was a average looking lad, or a soft and pretty boy. But RJ didn't he wanted us to know that Olver was an "ugly" boy, though he is charming.

 

  Now what other character is close to the term "ugly", See what I am getting at? For some reason I still think

there is an Olver/Birgitte connection.

 

[Fains nose]

Someone theorised on here that Olver will follow Mat, Tom and Noel in to the ToG, to help them, and i think this could happen. I am almost certain that Olver will replace Gaidal as Birgites lover in this lifetime, and probably in future turnings(i think Gaidal and all the Heroes of the Horn have been killed off by Slayer in Tel'Aran'Rhiod)

[FarShainMael]

It's strange, isn't it, that many people make that connection - I did myself until RJ shot it down!

 

But it occurs to me that Olver may be a descendant of Cain and Birgitte when they were in the world as normal people. After all, this is one of the Wheel's great pairings; it's only reasonable that it would have left its mark!

 

On an ancillary note, I'm wondering if we're going to lose Birgitte in the course of TG, as the Wheel spins her back into that pairing.

 

@Fains nose: Isn't the age gap a bit of an obstacle?

 

[Shadow Rider]

Olver is Ilenya.

[Paerish Swar]

Since Dida is currently boycotting Dragonmount, I have decided to temporarily pick up his crazy mantle.  ::)

 

Thom Merrilin in tEotW mentions that it is possible for the Souls of dead Heroes to take over the bodies of already living people. . . and cautions the Two Rivers boys to not joke about such things.

 

At the same time that Gaidal disappears from Tel'aran'rhiod, poor little Olver is experiencing the deaths of his mother, father, and siblings - most of whom he has to bury himself - to the ravages of the Cairhienin Civil War, famine, and the invasion of the Shaido.  All of these are rather "soul crushing" experiences for a nine year old boy, which in my opinion would certainly leave Olver highly susceptible to having his body taken over and bolstered up by the Hero Gaidal's Soul.

 

Also. . .

 

for RJ to say that "Olver is not Gaidal Cain" would be the equivalent to him saying "Rand al'Thor is not Lews Therin Telamon."

 

Both statements are 100% true.

 

 

 

Well, that was fun.  ;D

[Fains nose]

@FarShainMael, the age gap is a huge obstacle, it will be another 5-7 years before Olver is 'legal', he hasnt even hit puberty yet. But consider most people think that Gaidal is now a baby, thats even more of an age gap; i would like to see Birgite find love in this lifetime, i dont think it will be with someone who is now a baby, and i hope its not with some random ugly guy or Uno. Im certain that at the end of aMoL, we will have a flashforward maybe five or ten years showing what all the characters are up to, and Birgitte and Olver will be together.

[Shadow Rider]

for RJ to say that "Olver is not Gaidal Cain" would be the equivalent to him saying "Rand al'Thor is not Lews Therin Telamon."

 

Rand al'Thor 'is' Lews Therin Telamon.

[MikeRiley]

On an ancillary note, I'm wondering if we're going to lose Birgitte in the course of TG, as the Wheel spins her back into that pairing.

 

It's possible but I think the pattern will simply adapt to the easiest course and have Birgitte fall in with a younger Gaidal Cain. Min saw a number of things about Birgitte, both with a younger and older man, too many for one lifetime. So we know that she's both still bound to the Wheel and will be involved with a younger man as well. Given the Wheel always paired her with Gaidal Cain, it's a reasonable jump to say the younger man is also him.

 

 

Thom Merrilin in tEotW mentions that it is possible for the Souls of dead Heroes to take over the bodies of already living people. . . and cautions the Two Rivers boys to not joke about such things.

 

He doesn't say dead heroes. He says the dead. We then almost immediately see this happen with Fain and Mordeth. Gaidal Cain would have no reason to possess a little orphan boy.

 

 

 

I think Olver's role in the story is not fully realized yet. His plot line will probably for the most part come to an end during Towers of Midnight since he's been a big building point for the Rescue Moiraine subplot.