Mesaana (Full Spoilers)

[thewalrus777]

I have been toying with the idea that Mesaana may not be posing as Aes Sedai but may be posing as an Accepted...all of the Aes Sedai re-swore their oaths but what of the Accepted or the novices?

If Mesaana were posing as an Accepted, it would give her a lot of freedom to move around in the White Tower. :-\

 

But we know for a fact she is not. Graendal is having her watched in the Tower. She specifacally states that Mesaana is impersonating an Aes Sedai. And that this point Graendal is talking to her self and has no reason to lie. Alviarin's POV also puts Mesaana in the Tower. Verin is absoutely certain of it.

[Shadow Rider]

I have been toying with the idea that Mesaana may not be posing as Aes Sedai but may be posing as an Accepted...all of the Aes Sedai re-swore their oaths but what of the Accepted or the novices?

If Mesaana were posing as an Accepted, it would give her a lot of freedom to move around in the White Tower. :-\

 

But we know for a fact she is not. Graendal is having her watched in the Tower. She specifacally states that Mesaana is impersonating an Aes Sedai. And that this point Graendal is talking to her self and has no reason to lie. Alviarin's POV also puts Mesaana in the Tower. Verin is absoutely certain of it.

 

 

Yes Graendal did state that Mesaana was in the tower but how would she know for sure if Mesaana is posing as Aes Sedai? I don't believe that Mesaana would let her have that information....my thoughts Graendal is only assuming she is Aes Sedai..

[thewalrus777]

I have been toying with the idea that Mesaana may not be posing as Aes Sedai but may be posing as an Accepted...all of the Aes Sedai re-swore their oaths but what of the Accepted or the novices?

If Mesaana were posing as an Accepted, it would give her a lot of freedom to move around in the White Tower. :-\

 

But we know for a fact she is not. Graendal is having her watched in the Tower. She specifacally states that Mesaana is impersonating an Aes Sedai. And that this point Graendal is talking to her self and has no reason to lie. Alviarin's POV also puts Mesaana in the Tower. Verin is absoutely certain of it.

 

 

Yes Graendal did state that Mesaana was in the tower but how would she know for sure if Mesaana is posing as Aes Sedai? I don't believe that Mesaana would let her have that information....my thoughts Graendal is only assuming she is Aes Sedai..

 

She knows for sure because of the multiple spies she has watching Mesaana's every move. And Graendal wouldn't lie to herself. And we know for a fact that Mesaana is impersonating an Aes Sedai in the Tower due to Alviarin's and Verin's POV's. They correlate Graendal's statement.

[showerlilly]

This is my first post and I am probably way behind in all the info available as to why my theory is probably incorrect, But at the moment. Katarine seems the most likely to me. she just seems so suspicious especially in book 12, But its been awhile since I read the other books, So i am probably forgetting a passage that makes my thoughts unlikely. please refresh me if so. otherwise I bet it is her.

[Shadow Rider]

I have been toying with the idea that Mesaana may not be posing as Aes Sedai but may be posing as an Accepted...all of the Aes Sedai re-swore their oaths but what of the Accepted or the novices?

If Mesaana were posing as an Accepted, it would give her a lot of freedom to move around in the White Tower. :-\

 

But we know for a fact she is not. Graendal is having her watched in the Tower. She specifacally states that Mesaana is impersonating an Aes Sedai. And that this point Graendal is talking to her self and has no reason to lie. Alviarin's POV also puts Mesaana in the Tower. Verin is absoutely certain of it.

 

 

Yes Graendal did state that Mesaana was in the tower but how would she know for sure if Mesaana is posing as Aes Sedai? I don't believe that Mesaana would let her have that information....my thoughts Graendal is only assuming she is Aes Sedai..

 

She knows for sure because of the multiple spies she has watching Mesaana's every move. And Graendal wouldn't lie to herself. And we know for a fact that Mesaana is impersonating an Aes Sedai in the Tower due to Alviarin's and Verin's POV's. They correlate Graendal's statement.

 

 

 

In Alviarin's and Verins POV all they could see were shadows surrounding someone in white....Graendal is only assuming

[Shadow Rider]

This is my first post and I am probably way behind in all the info available as to why my theory is probably incorrect, But at the moment. Katarine seems the most likely to me. she just seems so suspicious especially in book 12, But its been awhile since I read the other books, So i am probably forgetting a passage that makes my thoughts unlikely. please refresh me if so. otherwise I bet it is her.

 

 

 

I don't think Mesaana would be so obvious....and I think Katarine has been executed.

[Sharaman]

Katerine Alruddin has run away from the Tower.

But many reasons she can't be Mesaana.

One is her own PoV where she thinks about how she learnt that Galina and she belong to the BA, which she joined some years after being raised to the shawl. (LoC)

Second is the fact that she was captured and held by the Aiel at a point when Messi was active and confidently interacting with other Chosen.

(TPoD).

 

 

[Casabamelon]

I firmly believe that Mesaana is posing as A.S., but just to throw another log on the "She's not posing as Accepted" fire: There's a certain impracticality to posing as Accepted. She would have to obey any A.S. that gave her an order, otherwise she'd draw unwanted attention to herself.

[JakeBarnes]

Plus, Brandon implied that Egwene is on the right track thinking that Mesaana 'beat' the oath rod, which is not the same as 'doesn't have to swear on the oath rod'

[Eht Slat Meit]

An offbeat, but possibly related note.

 

The Kin live far longer than Aes Sedai due to not having taken the Oath Rod, yes? To clarify further, female channelers manifest the symptoms of aging (not agelessness) far slower than normal women? Am I correct in my understanding of this?

[Casabamelon]

An offbeat, but possibly related note.

 

The Kin live far longer than Aes Sedai due to not having taken the Oath Rod, yes? To clarify further, female channelers manifest the symptoms of aging (not agelessness) far slower than normal women? Am I correct in my understanding of this?

 

Yes, that's correct. Not sure how that ties in to the Mesaana discussion though. Can you elaborate?

[Eht Slat Meit]

The Kin live far longer than Aes Sedai due to not having taken the Oath Rod, yes? To clarify further, female channelers manifest the symptoms of aging (not agelessness) far slower than normal women? Am I correct in my understanding of this?

 

Yes, that's correct. Not sure how that ties in to the Mesaana discussion though. Can you elaborate?

 

I wanted to make sure I had that right before I went wandering into another "Hmmm, maybe Mesaana is..." tangent. So, that done. :P

 

Now, the next big question is: If female channelers age far slower than everyone else, why does Sharina Melloy look like a grandmother at only 67?

 

 

[Sharaman]

Sharina Melloy is a "learner", not a sparker. She needed to be tested and taught to channel.

Until you start channeling, the slowing (it happens to men as well when saidin was pure and they didn't die of the taint) does not happen.

Although she has very high potential, she was not tested and didn't channel until she was already an elderly granny.

According to an RJ quote somewhere, she is now slowing because she is channeling.

 

 

[Glowbal]

Thought it was because she didn't take the oath rod? Since the oath rod gave aes sedai that ageless face.

[Sharaman]

No Sharina is a novice, who hasn't taken the oaths.

But 400 year old Damane and kin, who also don't have "ageless" faces, look younger than Sharina.

Sharina was very old before she even started channeling.

(Like Damer Flinn to take an example from the male gender.)

 

 

[thewalrus777]

There is a big difference between slowing and achieving the ageless look. Slowing happens regardless when you channel the OP. You'll age but not like anyone normal. The ageless look only happens when the OR is used. Because the oaths tighten the skin of the Aes Sedai who uses it. The only crappy thing about the OR is it cuts a channelers life in half, and sometimes even more than half. I mean really, channelers in the AoL used to live beyond 500 years of age. Some were around 700 years old. The OR now that I think about it, JUST SUCKS!

[morkhon]

This is probably in this thread somewhere, but when the group of Aes Sedai came to dispose of Siuan, she was shielded before she saw the glow around any of them. I see that as pretty clear evidence Mesaana was in that group with Elaida. At least someone who can conceal their channeling. Mesaana fits the bill. And Danelle was in that group.

[Calderis]

This is probably in this thread somewhere, but when the group of Aes Sedai came to dispose of Siuan, she was shielded before she saw the glow around any of them. I see that as pretty clear evidence Mesaana was in that group with Elaida. At least someone who can conceal their channeling. Mesaana fits the bill. And Danelle was in that group.

 

I've seen this argument before. I'm not saying that Mesaana wasn't one of them, but I can't agree with the reasoning. Siuan Was the Amyrlin, living in a please that you feel and see people channeling almost constantly. I'm fairly certain by the wording she just didn't think about it until she felt that she'd been block and it sunk home what was going on. Not everyone in that party could have been BA, and you can be damn sure that if one of the women there had the ability to hide the fact that she was holding Saidar there would have been some comments, and by now the ability would have spread.

 

It's not like inverted weaves, or masking your ability from casual observance. this is like being a freaking ninja and blindsiding anyone with something before they have a chance to react.

[Emily_Sedai]

I have to admit, that I'm surprised that Mesaana is still within the tower, and if she is, she had best not be for much longer.  When Moggy was captured in Salidar, Nyn and Elayne purposely held back the knowledge of masking your ability to channel and the mirror of mists to disguise yourself, stating that once the rebel Aes Sedai had it, Moggy would be unmasked within hours.  Now, we know that knowledge has been spread, because Leane at least used the ability to disguise her ability to channel at the Southharbor chain, and Beonin was to teach Elaida 'everything.'  

 

Thus, the knowledge Mesaana is using to disguise herself is now common knowledge.  So, what are the possibilities?  She impersonated an Aes Sedai that's been retired in the countryside for a few hundred years?  Nope, can't see that one, as there is *always* the chance that a Cadsuane might show up and know you're not who you claim.  She's a servant?  Maybe, but she implies to Alviarin that she wouldn't take any actions to get the stole of the keeper back for her, which implies she has influence with Tower politics.  In addition, the weave to hide your ability to channel is now becoming common knowledge.  An accepted/novice?  Doubtful, as when Alviarin grovels before her and pierces her disguise, she is not wearing white.  Thus, she must be using the mirror of mists, which can now be defeated.

 

Of course, being the usual idiotic Forsaken/Chosen, full of their AoL arrogance, she probably won't consider that the Salidar Aes Sedai may be able to penetrate her disguise, and will be captured when Egween, in a twist of the pattern, trips over her stole, falls down a flight of stairs, and lands at Mesaana's feet with a triumphant arch of an eyebrown.  

 

ps - please excuse any spelling errors, I'm feeling lazy tonight, lol  

[Paerish Swar]

I have to agree with Calderis on the issue that morkhon brings up.  So much happened in that moment so quickly, that it seems pretty obvious that Siuan was just really distracted.  "More than a dozen women strode into her study," and Elaida stood face to face with her to take the stole from her shoulders.  That leaves at least twelve women standing behind Elaida to slap a shield around Siuan, while she's too shocked by Elaida's effrontery to even notice what had happened.

 

At least one, if not many more, were already holding the source (except Elaida, who didn't reach for the source until after Siuan realized she was shielded).  We know this because someone had to be maintaining the shield and bonds of air around Leane.

 

The real mystery of this scene to me is how Siuan didn't even notice that her warder had been stabbed until she saw him laying there with the knife out his back.  Even if she was in the habit of keeping the bond masked, no matter how distracted she was she would have noticed the Warder bond breaking altogether, right?  And why would a group of at least 13 Aes Sedai bother killing a Warder in the first place?  It would have been so much easier to just tie him up in bonds of air.

 

So, did Siuan have the bond masked and her Warder, Alric, wasn't actually completely dead yet?  Was there a sister within that group that might have a special desire to want to stab a Warder instead of holding him immobile?  Is there any definitive proof that Mesaana was among the group of Aes Sedai in this scene?

 

The only question that can be answered with any confidence is the last one:  No, there is no definitive proof in this scene that Mesaana was in attendance. 

 

Although, I must admit, there is a lot to this scene that is troubling and raises a lot of interesting questions.

[mossman87]

 

I'm not suggesting Tsutama as a replacement candidate, nor was Saerin. They're simply speculation as to who Mesaana's current identity is. And I do think it's likely that she's using more than one, since Danelle hasn't been seen since ACoS.

 

That's the point though, she picked Danelle for that exact reason, to get away from the public eye and get things done without anyone noticing her gone.

[Eht Slat Meit]

 

I'm not suggesting Tsutama as a replacement candidate, nor was Saerin. They're simply speculation as to who Mesaana's current identity is. And I do think it's likely that she's using more than one, since Danelle hasn't been seen since ACoS.

 

That's the point though, she picked Danelle for that exact reason, to get away from the public eye and get things done without anyone noticing her gone.

 

Right, but when I say "hasn't been seen since ACoS" what I'm referring to is her "on-screen time", not her storyline presence. As Danelle, she'd have managed that perfectly well in each of her appearances (Assuming she's Mesaana). I suppose Jordan could have left her persona out just to heighten the sense of mystery, and that's one of the reasons that I'm not dead set on the whole alternate identity theory. It's more fun speculative theory than anything serious.

[Sharaman]

Minor hint: In TGS, Messi arrives for the meeting with Moridin wearing a white dress with no hint of any other colour and no jewellery. Assuming she didn't stop to change when the summons came, that is what she was wearing in the Tower. It could mean she's White Ajah. 

[yoniy0]

Minor hint: In TGS, Messi arrives for the meeting with Moridin wearing a white dress with no hint of any other colour and no jewellery. Assuming she didn't stop to change when the summons came, that is what she was wearing in the Tower. It could mean she's White Ajah. 

It wasn't like she wasn't expecting the summons. She was already with Demandred, for one. They asked for the meeting in the first place.

However, it still doesn't make a lot of sense for her to change cloths just to go see Demandred, seeing as how she doesn't care much for such things. And because white is the color of grief, nobody but a White would wear a totally white dress. And I guess she would most likely wear the same dress she intends her mask of mirrors to show. So, yeah, that's a good idea.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Minor hint: In TGS, Messi arrives for the meeting with Moridin wearing a white dress with no hint of any other colour and no jewellery. Assuming she didn't stop to change when the summons came, that is what she was wearing in the Tower. It could mean she's White Ajah. 

 

Or perhaps a novice? I tell ya, the whole idea of Sherina as Mesaana's alternate identity would just be awesome.