Mesaana (Full Spoilers)

[Sharaman]

Brandon said that we have seen Messy's alter ego as of KoD,so it's not Danelle,I tought that she is Danelle 'till I read that

Danelle has been around since TSR at the least.

Why can't it be her?

 

[NARISMA]

AS OF KoD,that means we have not seen her before

[Sharaman]

AS OF KoD,that means we have not seen her before

I think your quote is wrong. I think Brandon or RJ said that by KoD, we have enough information to know who Messi's A.ego is.

I'm sure on the studs on this forum will clear it up.

 

Looking at the link you provided (Thanks!)

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,50624.0.html

"Someone asked for clarification about whether we had seen Mesanna and Demandred's alter-egos on screen. Sanderson said that we had seen Mesaana's alter-ego on screen as of KoD, but that we had not seen Demandred's alter-ego on screen as of KoD. Sanderson would not elaborate on whether Demandred's alter-ego had been seen in TGS-- Sanderson didn't want to narrow down the suspects for us if Demandred really had appeared in TGS."

 

That means Messi's alter ago has been onstage before the end of KoD - which means Danelle remains very much suspect. 

[NARISMA]

I might be.Go and read Q&a-plot related-The Shadow-New 23/11/09.That is where I read it.I'm not from USA,so I haven't been on signigs so I'm maybe wrong

[sushisushi]

Who spilled the beans about the BA purge in the Salidar camp?  It had to have been a sitter.

 

It doesn't necessarily have to be a Sitter - all you need is to have one Black sister get wind of the fact that sisters are being herded into the Hall tent by Ajah and not all coming back out and hit the metaphorical panic button. I would think that any halfway competent clandestine organisation has some sort of a blanket signal that means 'the jig is up, get out!!' Some twenty Black Ajah sisters escaped the rebel camp, so again, all you need is one to Travel to the Tower and trip the same signal there and you get the mass exodus experienced there. Actually, you don't even need them to get into the Tower itself, if you do something like hang a particular coloured flag where it can be seen from inside the Tower and away we go.

[JakeBarnes]

I see where you're going with the warnings, but my focus is on the 20 who escaped from Salidar.  They weren't slow about it, and they didn't execute any until after they had them all arrested.  There's a quote in the book where Takima perked up at the mention of testing all of the sisters, which seemed a little suspicious as well.  I'm not saying Takima is Mesaana, but she could have been the mole.

 

Sharaman mentioned the quote about readers having enough information to identify Mesaana, and I recall something similar as well.  Hmmm.  Can anyone find the exact quote for this? 

[Eht Slat Meit]

Sharaman mentioned the quote about readers having enough information to identify Mesaana, and I recall something similar as well.  Hmmm.  Can anyone find the exact quote for this?  

 

Courtesy of Theoryland and Robert Jordan:

Q: Who is Mesaana?

RJ: Who is Mesaana? Think! You have enough evidence to know that by now, I would suspect, and you certainly will have enough after reading Crossroads of Twilight.

 

'Crossroads of Twilight', far as Mesaana's concerned, is notable for the confrontation with Shaidar Haran in front of Alviarin in Chapter 21. Unless that was a distraction (and that doesn't seem likely in context of his quote) from other clues in the same book, I'm guessing that's a nod to the Danelle camp.

 

[JakeBarnes]

 

Courtesy of Theoryland and Robert Jordan:

Q: Who is Mesaana?

RJ: Who is Mesaana? Think! You have enough evidence to know that by now, I would suspect, and you certainly will have enough after reading Crossroads of Twilight.

 

'Crossroads of Twilight', far as Mesaana's concerned, is notable for the confrontation with Shaidar Haran in front of Alviarin in Chapter 21. Unless that was a distraction (and that doesn't seem likely in context of his quote) from other clues in the same book, I'm guessing that's a nod to the Danelle camp.

 

 

Thanks for that.  Given this quotation, let's look at things that occur in CoT regarding the top 3 suspects (imo): Shevan, Danelle and Tarna.

 

Shevan:  Newly appointed Sitter of the Brown, could explain why Messy doesn't react to Alviarin's replacement

        Present when Alviarin comes back and meets with Elaida

        She supports negotiations (Messy is trying to keep the tower split)

       

Danelle:  Nothing in CoT

 

Tarna:  Only worn the shawl for 20 years (Messy wouldn't have to change her

        Recently appointed KotC (Doesn't react to Alviarin's displacement)

        Suggests the Red bond Asha'man (not really a clue, but she has been working with Demandred who appears to have a hand in the BT)

        I can't be sure of the timeline, but between Feb. 25 and March 15, Tarna spent some time in Dorlan.  The Cleansing happened on March 8, which means Tarna COULD have been stuck in Dorlan with Narenwin and Katerine at the time.  Katerine being Black, however, why couldn't she have skipped out?

 

From this information I think we can eliminate Danelle. 

Appearances:  Shevan is tall, thin has an angular chin and curly hair

              Tarna is taller than Suian with pale yellow hair, blue eyes and a prominent chin

              Mesaana is just short of her middle years, has blue eyes

 

Other Information:  Tarna was out of the tower visiting Salidar from tFoH chapter 49 through the time she is appointed keeper.  This would also explain why Mesaana seemed out of the loop to Alviarin in tPoD chapter 25.

 

The biggest thing this RJ quote does for me is eliminate Danelle.

[Eht Slat Meit]

 

Danelle:  Nothing in CoT

 

 

When Shaidar Haran breaks Mesaana's disguise, the revealed persona is similar to that of Danelle.

 

It's also revealed that the core description is one that is vaguely familiar to Alviarin. Is there -anything- previously to connect Tarna or Shevan in company to Alviarin?

[JakeBarnes]

 

When Shaidar Haran breaks Mesaana's disguise, the revealed persona is similar to that of Danelle.

 

 

"a tantalizingly familiar woman with blue eyes, just short of her middle years" could describe several sisters, including Tarna.  I think that Tarna can be ruled out due to her being shipped to the Black Tower, and Mesaana still being in the White Tower. 

 

Shevan was noticed by Alviarin in tPoD chapter 25 and in CoT chapter 21 by Alviarin immediately before she met with Mesaana, which would make Mesaana's appearance seem "tantalizingly familiar".

We also have never been told what color eyes Shevan has or her hairstyle.

 

If the new information that seals the deal is indeed the blue eyes, I don't see how that is ruling out Shevan.

If the new information is that Mesaana doesn't need Alviarin to be close to Elaida any longer, evidenced by her indifference toward the deposal, that would rule out Danelle.

 

I will say that Danelle seems like a more consistent fit throughout books 4-7, but she fell off the map after aCoS. Shevan, wasn't even mentioned until tPoD when she was raised to Sitter.

 

Can we agree that these two are the logical suspects now?

 

 

 

[Sharaman]

One can safely assume that Messi is imitating a sister with similar height, etc, because she's tantalisingly familiar. Ditto the voice. The agelessness and any little changes she had to make in her features, would blur resemblance.

 

Messi is slightly above medium height and blue-eyed brunette (?).

Shevan is very tall and thin with an angular face, a long chin and curly hair.

Tarna is blue-eyed blonde and wasn't around for quite a while because she was "embassying" in Salidar.

 

Shevan sounds unlikely because of the height and curly hair, angularity, etc, regardless of eye-colour. Alviarin wouldn't find Messi "tantalisingly familiar".

Tarna was in Salidar or somewhere on the road with an escort (?) while Messi was apparently moving events in the WT. Doesn't rule her out totally due to the Travelling factor.

 

Danelle does fit better on the physical front, perhaps and she's been in the Tower through the critical period.

 

[thewalrus777]

One can safely assume that Messi is imitating a sister with similar height, etc, because she's tantalisingly familiar. Ditto the voice. The agelessness and any little changes she had to make in her features, would blur resemblance.

 

Messi is slightly above medium height and blue-eyed brunette (?).

Shevan is very tall and thin with an angular face, a long chin and curly hair.

Tarna is blue-eyed blonde and wasn't around for quite a while because she was "embassying" in Salidar.

 

Shevan sounds unlikely because of the height and curly hair, angularity, etc, regardless of eye-colour. Alviarin wouldn't find Messi "tantalisingly familiar".

Tarna was in Salidar or somewhere on the road with an escort (?) while Messi was apparently moving events in the WT. Doesn't rule her out totally due to the Travelling factor.

 

Danelle does fit better on the physical front, perhaps and she's been in the Tower through the critical period.

 

 

And Danelle's personality traits fit in more with what Mesaana's personality actually is.

[NARISMA]

Danelle fits for some more reasons:

First:She is little quiet Brown,who nobody seems to notice.She is working in Tower library,perfect place to awoid Verins investigation.

Sebond:She brought the mercenaries in Tower during the Split.

Quite capable,for little quiet Brown.And you will wonder why she did this if she is most of the time in library,so she dont't cares much who is Amyrillin

Third:Siuan thinks of her ass far more than she looks like.

It is perfect disguise for Mesaana.Nobody suspects at her.

[Sharaman]

Third:Siuan thinks of her ass far more

:)

Siuan isn't thataway inclined as far as we know, even if she and Moiraine were pillow friends as novices!

 

[NARISMA]

sorry it is grammar eror.English is not my home language.I meant that Siuan suspects that Danelle is much more capabale than everyone thinks

[Sharaman]

sorry it is grammar eror.English is not my home language.I meant that Siuan suspects that Danelle is much more capabale than everyone thinks

Relax, we all make howlers typing fast on forums. My bad for harassing you. English isn't my first language either.

It was just rather funny.

 

[Owayn The Traveller]

Okay this is a long thread, so forgive me for not reading it all.

Okay Tsutama could easily be Mesaana ( i always wanna put two N's instead of two A's).

She was in exile, so its been a long time since people saw her.

Her attitude and temperament have changed in Pevara's view. More vulgar and wild even insane in Pevara's view as well.

Also quite flamboyant in her room decorations. This strikes me as something a lot of the forsaken have in common, over indulgent.

Also the whole blueberries too early in spring. Tavelling maybe?

 

Another one that just sticks in my mind as well is Ramesa, the white with no friends. Something about that little few lines in the prologue of KOD seems iffy to me. Maybe Tsutama was put in as an obvious red herring to distract from the real mccoy.

 

Out of these two its more likely to be the new head of the reds. Nice position of power as well.

 

Danelle is quite likely too. The problem is a lot of them are likely. Tarna too. The whole proposing the bonding with the the asha'men, whom are headed up by the must debated Taim.

 

I think its Tsutama though.

[JakeBarnes]

Per the RJ quote about certainly having enough evidence after CoT, Tsutama is NOT Mesaana.  She isn't even onscreen between NS and KoD Prologue.

 

Ramesa also does not come into the story until KoD, so cross her off as well.

[Owayn The Traveller]

I wasn't aware of that quote. Forgive me. She isn't Tarna though. Its prob Danelle.

[NARISMA]

it doesn't matter,even if we are correct about who Mesaana is,Brandon will never tell us the truth till the book is out and then we all can say YEAH WE WERE RIGHT,but what's the point.

[Sharaman]

Yeah, it's just a literary puzzle with no prizes. Like a locked room murder.

But it's fun.

The entire series works because of that.

 

[NARISMA]

yeah you're right.But it would be much better to give us some clues before the book comes out.That way there would be much more people who would want to read the books,not just hardcore fans like us,because they all would buy the book just to see if they were right.

 

[Aquarius]

yeah you're right.But it would be much better to give us some clues before the book comes out.That way there would be much more people who would want to read the books,not just hardcore fans like us,because they all would buy the book just to see if they were right.

 

Mmm ... not sure that'll change how many people want to read the book.

 

Only hard core fans are actually wondering who the hell Messaana is impersonating.

Only hard core fans actually care about what authors give as clues during book tours and such.

Only hard core fans actually gather on forums & create community to talk about it ;)

[Sharaman]

I agree, this deep into the series.

 

[Shadow Rider]

I have been toying with the idea that Mesaana may not be posing as Aes Sedai but may be posing as an Accepted...all of the Aes Sedai re-swore their oaths but what of the Accepted or the novices?

If Mesaana were posing as an Accepted, it would give her a lot of freedom to move around in the White Tower. :-\