The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Som1else]

Doesn't help - you'll still have to read the texts with great care and enthusiasm.

Locales are widely dispersed. 

Book 4: Tear, Tanchico, Two Rivers, Waste, White Tower,

Book 5: Waste, Carhein, Caemlyn, Salidar, White Tower, 

All over the countryside of Andor to Salidar for Suian and co.

and also all over the place for Elayne and Nyn

Plus TAR

Book 6: Caemlyn, Carhein, Dumai's Wells, Amador.

All over the countryside for Mat.

Salidar, Ebou Dar, Shayol Ghul, Shadar Logoth.

Plus TAR.

 

theres also the finnland and those places rand saw in the terangreal

[Plagueis]

The first time the Aiel Wise Ones mention that going to TAR in the flesh is bad is during books 4-6 isn't it? I forget the exact quote but dont they say some part of you is left behind or lost or something?

 

This isn't a really major point but it is referred to throughout the rest of the books and may become more important later.

[shadowfox]

Is there a thread on Aiel Darkfriends?

 

There must be.

 

I was reading that part in book 6 I think where the Aiel attack the little tower aes sedai in Caemlyn was any of this ever resolved? It is pretty obvious to me these were Aiel darkfriends Rand certainly would not have ordered something like that.

 

Now it is my thoughts that any group of darkfriends within the Aiel would be fairly orginized and structered perhaps something like their warrior societies. What high ranking Aiel were in Caemlyn at the time of this attack to order this?

[Sharaman]

The Attack on the AS was probably done by Whitecloaks pretending to be Aiel.

But yes, Aiel Darkfriends is a theory I keep harking back to, for different reasons.

 

[Entretamis]

Something else i noticed from rereading TSR. on page 800, when keille (lanfear) tryes to pimp out isendre for a tar valon mark.

 

Isendre leave, mat tries to slip away and keille (lanfear) stops him and says not to refuse her offer twice...

 

...well the key action here is at the end she pinches him

 

TSR pg 800: "Laughing she reached up an pinched his cheek with thick fingers.."

 

we know that mask of mirrors you cant have physical contact or it will fall, and yet lanfear was able to touch mat.

 

is there another disguse than MoM?

 

[Dreamwalker]

Something else i noticed from rereading TSR. on page 800, when keille (lanfear) tryes to pimp out isendre for a tar valon mark.

 

Isendre leave, mat tries to slip away and keille (lanfear) stops him and says not to refuse her offer twice...

 

...well the key action here is at the end she pinches him

 

TSR pg 800: "Laughing she reached up an pinched his cheek with thick fingers.."

 

we know that mask of mirrors you cant have physical contact or it will fall, and yet lanfear was able to touch mat.

 

is there another disguse than MoM?

 

 

Maybe she was wearing a fat suit? Or even better- Lanfear isn't actually a hottie - Keille is what she really looks like and Lanfear is MoM. :P

 

I think this is probably just a goof, but who knows with RJ.

[DemandredFO]

I'd still like to know how she did what she did in TSR, I think.  She appears to Rand, saying, you don't remember how I look do you and then changes to an older lanfear, presumably Meiren Sedai, I guess the guise she usually wears is an MoM, unless she really did visit the Finns pre-FoH.

[MMaloney]

Hello All

 

I have read upto post 731 on this thread.  There are many good ideas of what this mysterious thing BS mentione as well as some bad ideas.  I'll eat a hat if it is Mats Hat.

 

The idea that I had after re-reading Books 5 & 6 (Sorry Did not Re-read book 4 yet)

is Entering TAR in the flesh.  This is the Important thing BS thought we ought to have picked up on.  This has been metioned by several people but i have not seen many theories as to why is is important or how it affects the last two books.

 

The WHY? and HOW?

 

This thing must be related to sealing the DO prison, without the DO Backlash/Counter Stroke tainting Sadiar/Sadin.  This is one of the biggest unanswered question about the whole series.

 

 

My thoughts are that by entering TAR in the flesh; Rand, Egwene, Perrin  and possibly others (Wise Ones/Dream Walkers) have created a link from themselves to the Dark One.  They will use this link to channel the counter stroke back to the DO thus saving Sadiar/Sadin from being tainted. 

 

 

Why Brandon said books 4-6.

 

Book 4 - Perrin is warned by his Wolf Brother "You are here TOO STRONG Young Bull"

Perrin Entered TAR in the flesh. I have not re-read Book 4 yet but I have still read it half a dozen times over the years.

 

Book 5 - Rand enters TAR by chasing Ravin.

 

Book 6 - Egwene Travels to Salidar by entering TAR In the flesh.

 

O.K. Flame Away.

 

Sorry I just want to mention Rand and his "Death" -> "His Blood on the Rocks of Shayol Ghul" 

Rand has left his blood on rocks from the Two Rivers, Camylyn, The Eye of the World, Flame/Tarwins Gap, The Stone of Tear, The Aiel Waste, Rhuidean, ... and many places in between.  Whats a little more blood a Shayol Ghul.  It does not mean he is going to die at Shayol Ghul.  Only that he has to die to live again. aka LTT must Finnally die at Shayol Ghul.  Just a thought I had to get off my chest.

 

[Dreamwalker]

I'd still like to know how she did what she did in TSR, I think.  She appears to Rand, saying, you don't remember how I look do you and then changes to an older lanfear, presumably Meiren Sedai, I guess the guise she usually wears is an MoM, unless she really did visit the Finns pre-FoH.

 

I think that all that scene meant was that her Selene guise from the early books was MoM to make her look like her younger self (so she'd look more Rand's age, as well as more vulnerable, when she was trying to seduce him in tGH and tDR). Then she reveals what she really looks like (mature Lanfear or Mierin Sedai like you said) in tSR - the impression I've gotten is that whenever she's appeared after that she has appeared as her true, older self. Which is apparently even more beautiful than when she's Selene, according to Rand's PoV in tSR Ch. 9. Even though she might be fairly old by our standards, she isn't old for an AoL channeler, especially of her strength, so with slowing she probably looks like she's late 20s/early 30s, so she certainly doesn't look old.

[Dredlord]

I was doing a semi review of the books through my head while at work today and I kept coming back to the TAR thing again and again.  I think MMAloney may be on to something here.  We are certainly reminded of it throughout the books and it fits within the time frame I believe.  They always tell Rand it is evil, you leave something behind, it has consequences but we never see what.  Same with Perrin.  Even if this isn't the BUT it is something that still needs to be answered...

[Plagueis]

I was doing a semi review of the books through my head while at work today and I kept coming back to the TAR thing again and again.  I think MMAloney may be on to something here.  We are certainly reminded of it throughout the books and it fits within the time frame I believe.  They always tell Rand it is evil, you leave something behind, it has consequences but we never see what.  Same with Perrin.  Even if this isn't the BUT it is something that still needs to be answered...

 

This does seem to be the most likely thing that BS was referring to...

[saidarisnowtainted]

I was doing a semi review of the books through my head while at work today and I kept coming back to the TAR thing again and again.  I think MMAloney may be on to something here.  We are certainly reminded of it throughout the books and it fits within the time frame I believe.  They always tell Rand it is evil, you leave something behind, it has consequences but we never see what.  Same with Perrin.  Even if this isn't the BUT it is something that still needs to be answered...

 

This does seem to be the most likely thing that BS was referring to...

 

Considering that BS described the BuT to the mistborn thing, and considering that the mistborn thing is something we see mentioned here and there, but we overlook, and it is something that changes the entire dynamic of our understanding and/or the dynamic of what occurs. 

 

TaR doesnt have that quality. 

[Plagueis]

I was doing a semi review of the books through my head while at work today and I kept coming back to the TAR thing again and again.  I think MMAloney may be on to something here.  We are certainly reminded of it throughout the books and it fits within the time frame I believe.  They always tell Rand it is evil, you leave something behind, it has consequences but we never see what.  Same with Perrin.  Even if this isn't the BUT it is something that still needs to be answered...

 

This does seem to be the most likely thing that BS was referring to...

 

Considering that BS described the BuT to the mistborn thing, and considering that the mistborn thing is something we see mentioned here and there, but we overlook, and it is something that changes the entire dynamic of our understanding and/or the dynamic of what occurs. 

 

TaR doesnt have that quality. 

 

Not TAR itself, but entering it in the flesh. We are told here and there it is evil, and you lose something of yourself. Yet, it is overlooked by most of the characters (and I assume readers too) because we have not seen any affects at all. It seems kind of stupid to say that it is evil and shouldn't be done and then to leave it at that.

 

On a completely different note, what about using 13 darkfriends who can channel and 13 myrddraal to convert a channeler to "the Dark side". That was mentioned (I forget which book) but that was also pretty much ignored after it was mentioned.

[garryowen]

First of all, I haven't been to this thread since I started my first re-read of the series. I just read ch. 23 of tSR a moment ago, and hurried to my computer excitedly to share what I thought I might have been the first to discover. I am glad I noticed it in the book before seeing it here though, in any case. I am in agreement with the idea that the significant thing is the warning Egwene receives about entering TAR in the flesh.

 

Why Brandon said books 4-6.

 

Book 4 - Perrin is warned by his Wolf Brother "You are here TOO STRONG Young Bull"

Perrin Entered TAR in the flesh. I have not re-read Book 4 yet but I have still read it half a dozen times over the years.

 

Book 5 - Rand enters TAR by chasing Ravin.

 

Book 6 - Egwene Travels to Salidar by entering TAR In the flesh.

 

Don't forget that Rand enters TAR in the flesh to hunt Ishamael at the end of tDR. I think Brandon said 4-6 mainly to keep us guessing, and possibly also to point out other occurrences of in-the-flesh TAR entry. I think, however, that the first time it happens is in tDR.

 

 

[Demiandre]

I know it's before the 4-6 books, but I wanted to mention something Verin told first Egwene in the tower, then Rand (I think it is in tGH, but not totally sure). She says Egwene that there are many worlds, and that TAR is connected to all of them. if the "worlds" are parallels, the TAR is perpendicular to them. So.

To Rand, she says that there are things common to all possible worlds, at the Portal Stone. Some weaker than other because they are less probable, but similar. And she talk about the DO breaking free in all world, beeing for the moment imprisonned in all of them. TAR is the reflect of all of those World at the same time (well, the ones in which men could survive).

 

I'm trying to sort some things out, but I think there is something in this, maybe (probably I would say) linked to the going in TAR in flesh. Does anyone have a guess?

[MMaloney]

The idea that I had after re-reading Books 5 & 6 (Sorry Did not Re-read book 4 yet)

is Entering TAR in the flesh.  This is the Important thing BS thought we ought to have picked up on.  This has been metioned by several people but i have not seen many theories as to why is is important or how it affects the last two books.

 

After thinking on this some more I am probable wrong about my thoughts on Sealing the DO and Blocking the Counter Stroke.

 

Rand and Company may need to Seal the DO while In TAR.  Whether they have to be there in the Flesh or Not I don't know for sure but I think they can ony channel Sadair/Sadin fully if they are there in the flesh.

[Sharaman]

The idea that I had after re-reading Books 5 & 6 (Sorry Did not Re-read book 4 yet)

is Entering TAR in the flesh.  This is the Important thing BS thought we ought to have picked up on.  This has been metioned by several people but i have not seen many theories as to why is is important or how it affects the last two books.

 

After thinking on this some more I am probable wrong about my thoughts on Sealing the DO and Blocking the Counter Stroke.

 

Rand and Company may need to Seal the DO while In TAR.  Whether they have to be there in the Flesh or Not I don't know for sure but I think they can ony channel Sadair/Sadin fully if they are there in the flesh.

Shayol Ghul and the Blight are not visible and cannot be reached in TAR.

 

[Demiandre]

Shayol Ghul and the Blight are not visible and cannot be reached in TAR.

 

This is also the case for Ogier Steddings, Rhuidean (well, before the battle between Rand and asmo) and I think another place too but can't remember. Does anybody know why? Is there a guard or something over this places? I suppose it was the fog around Rhuidean that was acting like a guard, but Steddings have only the capacity to unable channelers to feel the source. And Demandred, Moghedien and co. said it was extremely dangerous to channel in Shayol Ghul...

 

So we could think there is a connexion between the Power and T'A'R, as we keep hearing there isn't any. But everything points toward the fact that the One Power is linked to T'A'R... The only places where the reflect of reality isn't visible there are where use of the One Power is limited or prohibited... Could T'A'R have been "created" by/reflect the turning of the wheel and through the "work" and complementarity of Saidin/saidar?

 

Could T'A'R have been in reality created by the AoL Aes Sedai by studying the Portal Stone??

[Tom Sawyer]

 

Could T'A'R have been in reality created by the AoL Aes Sedai by studying the Portal Stone??

 

No.  The wolves have been in TAR since before they can remember, so it's been around for a while.  Also the Heroes of the Horn live there between lives.  It predates the AoL by eons.

 

[Sharaman]

Places that are not part of the Pattern are not visible in TAR.

 

[saidarisnowtainted]

Considering what was said that TaR is a reflection of all worlds and the DO is imprisoned in all, perhaps being in TaR in the flesh (rather than ur reflection from ur world in the dream) somehow strengthens the similarities between all worlds.  What possible ramifications are there?  Good/bad/none b/c my idea is stupid?

[Dredlord]

I was wondering if entering TAR in the flesh could be linked to the voice in Rand's head.  I know, we all THINK it is LTT but then why would BS RAFO that?  There has to be more to it than simply being LTT's voice.  Maybe it is the voice of the pieces of Rand left in TAR after entering in the flesh!  And this is why the voice get stronger, and develops into a personality trying to seize Saidin... every time Rand enters TAR in the flesh it just gets worse and worse and his reflection gets stronger.  I'm thinking something along the lines of all the tiny Rand's that came out of the mirror, except its in TAR instead and more of a mental fight then a physical.

[Plagueis]

I was wondering if entering TAR in the flesh could be linked to the voice in Rand's head.  I know, we all THINK it is LTT but then why would BS RAFO that?  There has to be more to it than simply being LTT's voice.  Maybe it is the voice of the pieces of Rand left in TAR after entering in the flesh!  And this is why the voice get stronger, and develops into a personality trying to seize Saidin... every time Rand enters TAR in the flesh it just gets worse and worse and his reflection gets stronger.  I'm thinking something along the lines of all the tiny Rand's that came out of the mirror, except its in TAR instead and more of a mental fight then a physical.

 

How does the voice know things that Rand doesn't? I had a suspicion that the voice may be the dark one Himself trying to turn Rand to the Shadow...

[Dredlord]

I don't have a good argument about how the voice would know  stuff if it's not LTT.  My hole view is based on;  If it is LTT, why RAFO it?

[Paendragon]

Whoa...

This thread has turned into a "craziest most whacked out theory" graveyard.