The Fires of Heaven and the downfall of the Seanchan

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Its never explicitly stated what the source of the civil war in Seanchan is, but I think I spotted some foreshadowing I had never noticed before. Just as Rand and Avi are leaving thier little rendezvous to the Seanchan continent, they spot a patrol with two Sul'dam, two Damane, some minor noblility, and curiously, a Seeker. As well as random troops, of course.

 

This Seeker claims to have put not one, but TWO of the Empress' own children to the question, and as a reward was favoured to gaze upon her wonder. So this is no minor Seeker, she seems to be a relatively high flyer in the Seeker ranks. But there were a few lines and minor info drops that make me think. Observe:

 

Chapter 32, at the end.

 

"Morsa did not look suprised. In fact, there seemed to be a light of horrified recognition in her blue eyes as she gazed at Rand. There was only one way that could be. "You were at Falme" He said. ... "I was" The noblewoman looked faint. "I saw you, and what you did there"

 

Morsa was at Falme, at now is in company of a Seeker. The same Falme that some Sul'dam were found out to be able to channel.

 

Back to Rand:

 

"Take a care I don't do the same here. Give me no trouble, and I will leave you in peace."

 

And now the bit that hit me:

 

"Much has been kept secret about what happened in the lands of the great Hawkwing, Lady Morsa", the severe-faced (Seeker) woman said. Her dark eyes were as hard on Morsa as they had been on him. "Rumours fly that the Ever Victorious Army has tasted defeat." Morsa tries to browbeat the Seeker, but fails.

 

Anyway, Avi (who is trying to remove the a'dam) then mentions to Rand that he "Nearly killed the other two by touching the A'dam. I felt the power rushing uncontrollably into both of them before you let go" (Paraphrased)

 

Immediately after:

 

"Morsa had listend carefully to every word that he and Avi said, and now she was gazing thoughtfully at the two sul'dam, but Jalindin had never taken her eyes from the noblewoman's face. "Much has been kept secret that should not be held from the Seekers, lady Morsa," the stern woman said. "The Seekers must know all."

 

Morsa then offends Jalindin, and Jalindin says she has tortured the Empress' own kids, so what does Morsa's MINOR HOUSE have to offer in resistance against the seekers. Morsa then comments:

 

"The Empress...already knows far more than I can tell..." Licking her lips.

 

Cutting her off, Jalindin then takes Morsa and the Sul'dam and the Damane into custody of the Seekers.

 

 

 

 

So what does all that mean?

 

Possibly:

 

1. The Empress knows that sul'dam can channel.

2. The Seekers suspect either the above, or that the Empress is covering this up.

3. Morsa knows they can channel, and presumably others.

 

 

I think this is all foreshadowing the major rift that happens later in the Seanchan continent, and maybe might point us to clues as to what might happen with them in the future. What that future holds, however, I have no idea!

 

 

Just read past this section on my latest pre-tGH re-read (way behind schedule I know) and this jumped out at me. Any comments?

 

Am I like a decade behind the news here? :P

 

Also, forgive the ramble.

[Thorn]

It's a good theory, but I think it's explicitly stated in Knife of Dreams (stop reading now if you haven't read it yet!) that the Forsaken, specifically Semirhage, have killed all of the Seanchan royal family they could find (except Tuon), thus precipitating the civil war.

 

That said, you've spotted a neat passage, and you're probably not too far wrong. I know Jordan was planning three "outrigger" novels set in Seanchan, and revelations like that could have played a huge part of their plots.

[Bob T Dwarf]

A minor point, and moot now, I suspect.

 

The reason for the Seanchan civil war is very clearly spelled out in KoD, and this isn't it.

[Ashaman DeRouge]

Yes sorry, wasn't thinking clearly.

 

I know the family has been trashed by Semi, but this seems like foreshadowing to SOMETHING. If THIS didnt precipitate the downfall (which it didn't, due to Semi), what DOES this precipitate?

 

Slightly clearer the second time around haha.

 

Basically what does it mean if some Seanchan knew, very early on, that the sul'dam can channel. It's a hell of a secret to keep covered up for centuries...

[scott_swampy]

 

Basically what does it mean if some Seanchan knew, very early on, that the sul'dam can channel. It's a hell of a secret to keep covered up for centuries...

 

I have always thought that they must have known in the past because it was an Aes Sedai that created the a‘dam, and we are told repeatedly that there were Aes Sedai in Seanchan and the they cause trouble, hence the belief they must be collared, so they must have had knowledge of the difference being born with the spark and those who could be taught to channel at some point weather it was lost or hidden we may never know...

[Balefire to da face!]

Yes sorry, wasn't thinking clearly.

 

I know the family has been trashed by Semi, but this seems like foreshadowing to SOMETHING. If THIS didnt precipitate the downfall (which it didn't, due to Semi), what DOES this precipitate?

 

Slightly clearer the second time around haha.

 

Basically what does it mean if some Seanchan knew, very early on, that the sul'dam can channel. It's a hell of a secret to keep covered up for centuries...

 

For a while I suspected that the Seanchan invasion would be thwarted not by Rand or any other army, but by this secret getting out and shattering them to the point where they just kind of assimilated back into Randland culture. With Sul'dam rebelling, and the army's not being able to match Randland armies on thier own turf without One Power backup.

 

That doesn't seem like it's going to happen, but I can't see Jordan wasting such a great plot point. I would imagine that he meant to use it heavily with the outrigger novels.

 

Or maybe we'll see kind of a partial version of what I had expected. The secret will get out, not with enough time to really get rid of the Seanchan, but by the end of the series we'll see thier culture moving away from enslaving damane......

[Durinax]

if we could see the battles begin between the tower and seanchan we would see it get out rapidly, in order to break the seanchan