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Hurin, Dragonsworn, and Borderland problems

Beli Tsar

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I was just on 13thdepository.com re-reading some of the old Q & A's of Robert Jordan's and came across this quote:


Week 5 Question: Will Hurin the Sniffer return in any of the remaining books? Please? We miss him. Could you share some insight as to why you decided not to use him after The Great Hunt?


Robert Jordan Answers: He'll turn up again. He hasn't reappeared earlier because the part he had to play was a sidelight to the main story. You should be able to glean some of what he was doing, what effect he and the news he brought was having, from the news that came out of the Borderlands in the books following The Dragon Reborn, though.


In The Great Hunt we see Hurin is pretty solidly loyal to Rand when he thinks he's just a nobleman and when he shows the world he's the Dragon Reborn he gains oaths of fealty from all the Shienarans (though I'm not certain if Hurin swears as well). Regardless, it stands to reason that Hurin is even more loyal a  follower of Rand following the events of Falme, and based on RJ's answer above,  I think the events in the borderlands he's referring to (the news is almost certainly the Dragon is Reborn) is all the skirmishing between Borderlanders that gets mentioned in the following books (sorry I can't remember which ones and by whom, though I know it was Aes Sedai). The fact we should be able "to glean what he's been doing" based on what's occurred leads me to assume that Hurin has started a following of Dragonsworn in the Borderlands, and the reason it has not reached the notoriety of others is because A) he's not a raving lunatic followed be a mob of raving lunatics like Masema and B) Unlike the Domani and Taraboners, his group is not in a land filled with chaos, and due to the nature of the Borderlands probably has not created a following either substantial enough (though I wouldn't discount it) or in anyway threatening towards the State itself to warrant civil war. Much more likely just the skirmishing that is likely to happen between armies of conflicting interests inhabiting the same lands.


Now, before the shouts begin this is ALL just wild goose theory and speculation, and I have no justification for it, but nor is there anything to discount it (just because no one has talked of Bordlerland dragonsworn doesn't mean there arent' any. Afterall, Uno and company forswore their old oaths rather quickly). It is simply a stray thought of mine brought on by RJ's answer and the remembrance of Artur Hawkwing's quote to Hurin right before the battle of Falme really kicked off (when Hurin told Rand that he would not retreat to the back and would see it through to the end) that (and I paraphrase) "perhaps they will add more to their number." This most likely was just Hawkwing complimenting Hurin on his courage and steadfastness, but I like Hurin a lot, he is coming back into the story if the above quote is any indication, and if Hawkwing can say that about him perhaps there is more to the little guy afterall.


In another wild goose theory aside, perhaps any potential Dragonsworn/Hurin-led army that is in the Borderlands will fall in behind Lan's banner because, frankly, I don't think Hurin is a battle leader or could provide the proper leadership to make something useful out of a large following of Dragonsworn. Then again it has been several books, and years, since we've seen him so maybe he's grown in new ways.


Have fun ripping this one apart  ;D

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Is an interesting theory, but personally, I can't see Hurin leading / forming any form of band, intentional or otherwise. I think the first thing he would of done was go to Agelmar and report what he saw and his own beliefs regards Rand et al.


As to the skirmishes, I hadn't really given it any thought, but I read a thread speculating that Demandred is the force behind the Borderland army, with them being a cover for 13 Aes Sedai - most likely Black Ajah. Combining the two, possibly the skirmishes were facilitated by Demandred with a view to getting rid of personel who could pose a problem or dissuade the rulers from stripping the Borderlands and marching south.


I can't see trained Borderlanders living close to the Blight with the risk of Trollocs / Fades becoming Dragonsworn - sure, a few who were far from home may feel that they could be of some good in the south - but overall I think the collective response from the Borderlands upon hearing of the Dragon being reborn would be to sigh heavily, sharpen their swords and be ever more vigilant over the Blight border.


Of course, this is just my opinion - and I do have a rather romanticised view of the Borderland nations, they are just cool!



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Demandred as Hurin.

The earliest for Demandred I take is Fires of Heaven.  Hurin appears before then.

'Demandred through Hurin' might be more accurate.  Though I am not sure if Demandred would seek to influence a character that had contact with the main characters.


but I read a thread speculating that Demandred is the force behind the Borderland army

Graendal might be another candidate that caused the Borderlanders to go south.  Mesaana through Alviarin (when Alviarin was Keeper) could be another possibility.  Moridin through the mindtraps might be another possibility.


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Graendal might be another candidate that caused the Borderlanders to go south.  Mesaana through Alviarin (when Alviarin was Keeper) could be another possibility.  Moridin through the mindtraps might be another possibility.


The thread I read was under the structured WoT discussion, in Demandreds very own thread - I only read through a few pages but given the 'evidence' different people presented, they put forward a compelling case. I don't think Graendal would be behind it, she has Arad Doman to sow chaos in and similarly for Mesaana I would think.


Moridin it could be, i don't remember coming across anything that suggests one way or another, so unless anyone has anything to counter it, Moridin seems like a feasible option!


I would love it if Demandred ... posed as Hurin to get near Rand.


RJ has stated that we haven't met Demandreds 'persona' as yet, so while he might not be Hurin, he could be controlling him, of course.

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