who closed the Shienar gates?

[ROB_88]

in the start TGH rRand tries to escape from the Aes Sedai through the gates but they are clearly closed, but after the fight with the trollocs it is said that the gates have just been ordered to close, and there was no previous order to do so.

so who ordered for the gates to be closed before and why didn't the guards mention it when the real order came?

[somathus]

I have always assumed it was Ingtar

[Balefire to da face!]

There were a few things going wonky at the beginning of TGH I have noticed on rereads. With Rand running about trying to get away with eyes following him, and the gates being locked, and then the assassin that hit Suian, but seemed to be going after Rand.

 

I am curious for someone to answer this too. It seems like it would make sense if it were Moiraine using her snooping trick to follow Rand(the eyes) and barring him from leaving(once the Amyrlin showed up she decided it would be best to change the "you may leave if you wish" order).

 

But then that doesn't seem to gel with her PoV soon after when she spots Egwene sneaking around. *Shrugs*

[Kaznen]

I have always assumed it was Ingtar

 

That's what I always thought.

[Nimic]

Pretty sure it was Ingtar.

[Balefire to da face!]

But Rand was free to go until the Amyrlin showed up. It seems all but certain that the Amrylin showing up was the reason Rand was finally barred from leaving. What motive did Ingtar have to keep Rand there once the Amyrlin showed up, but not before?

 

Perhaps it was a coincidence and the Amyrlin showed up right as Ingtar was returning from his meeting in the prologue, thus having a reason to finally bar Rand from leaving?

 

Even still, what would his motivation be for stopping Rand? It would be a temporary fix at best, once Agelmar found out about it. And even later that night Ingtar saved Rand from a Fade rather then handing him over to him ???

[dholm]

Ingtar specifically returns with the Amyrlin.

 

"Ingtar's with them." Lan sounded as if his thoughts were elsewhere. "Back from his hunting at last. I wonder if he had any luck?"

 

His "hunting" is obviously the Darkfriend Social of the prologue.

[OptimusPrime]

But Rand was free to go until the Amyrlin showed up. It seems all but certain that the Amrylin showing up was the reason Rand was finally barred from leaving. What motive did Ingtar have to keep Rand there once the Amyrlin showed up, but not before?

 

Perhaps it was a coincidence and the Amyrlin showed up right as Ingtar was returning from his meeting in the prologue, thus having a reason to finally bar Rand from leaving?

 

Even still, what would his motivation be for stopping Rand? It would be a temporary fix at best, once Agelmar found out about it. And even later that night Ingtar saved Rand from a Fade rather then handing him over to him ???

 

Isnt Fains escape involved in this? Did he escape before the gates were closed, or after?

[Balefire to da face!]

But Rand was free to go until the Amyrlin showed up. It seems all but certain that the Amrylin showing up was the reason Rand was finally barred from leaving. What motive did Ingtar have to keep Rand there once the Amyrlin showed up, but not before?

 

Perhaps it was a coincidence and the Amyrlin showed up right as Ingtar was returning from his meeting in the prologue, thus having a reason to finally bar Rand from leaving?

 

Even still, what would his motivation be for stopping Rand? It would be a temporary fix at best, once Agelmar found out about it. And even later that night Ingtar saved Rand from a Fade rather then handing him over to him ???

 

Isnt Fains escape involved in this? Did he escape before the gates were closed, or after?

 

From what I remember....

 

-Right at the beginning of the book Rand is training with Lan and the Amyrlin shows up. We learn that Rand has been putting off leaving for about a month, and Lan kind of says "shoulda left when you could". This, and the Amyrlin showing up sends Rand running to escape.

 

-Rand goes to pack up, finding that Moiraine has ordered all his clothes burned and replaced with fancy clothes. He then goes to a gate with Uno and Masema(I think those were the guys) and tries to leave. They inform him that the order just came down that no one comes or goes.

 

-Rand runs around a while with invisible eyes following him, meets up with Perrin, Mat, and Loial and tries to cut ties with them by insulting them. Then he runs into Egwene, and she takes him down to see Fain to avoid Aes Sedai. Fain is acting particularly wonky so they decide that's not the best place to stay. So Eqwene takes him to the women's quarters where no one will look for him. A little later, during Moiraine's PoV she spots Egwene sneaking Rand in and seems amused/suprised. So despite what I said earlier it doesn't seem to have been Moiraine that gave the order

 

-Rand falls asleep in the women's quarter, wakes up with Nyn in the room. Egwene has went to the dungeon to see Fain again, and taken Mat and Perrin with her(that's what Nyn says, but Perrin actually decided not to go). After a few minutes, an alarm sounds and Rand is worried that something has happened with Fain and Egwene, so he goes rushing to the dungeon. Finding out that the trollocs have attacked, and such. When he gets there we find that Fain has escaped, taken the dagger from Mat, and trollocs looted Agelmar's storeroom of the Horn.

 

-A little while later Rand is dissapointed when he hears that the guard has been tripled, but then is surprised to find out that the order against anyone leaving has been lifted.

 

-Also, during all of this Liandrin got ahold of the high lady in Shiener(forget her name) and compulsed her into sending all of her cleaning crew searching for Rand.

 

-Skip ahead to when the Amyrlin and the party being sent after the horn are leaving an arrow from an assassin hits Suian, but it's very heavily suggested that it was actually meant for Rand.

 

There was a lot of stuff going on at the beginning of the Great Hunt that I haven't really pieced together even after, like, 5 rereads. I agree now it seems like it was Ingtar barring the gate(if for no other reason then Jordan meant for immediate recognition of "Oh, THAT's who did it" when Ingtar later confessed). But what about the assassination attempt? What were the eyes following Rand? Rats maybe, the servants of the DO ???

[ROB_88]

-A little while later Rand is dissapointed when he hears that the guard has been tripled, but then is surprised to find out that the order against anyone leaving has been lifted.

no, after the fight Ingtar says that Agelmar just ordered the gates closed. When Rand asks, Ingtar says he heard nothing about earlier orders.

 

But what about the assassination attempt? What were the eyes following Rand? Rats maybe, the servants of the DO ???

that gotta be a a gray man

[fikkie77]

I believe the eyes following Rand were Fain's. He's still partly the DO hound and made in such a way that he could track Rand.

[bmunge]

There's a lot during that plot line that is confusing. Let's try and put some characters on the various events.

 

Rand and Lan sparing and Rand gets pushed towards Lan's practice blade by Air.

- Likely suspects: Liandrin, DO?

 

Who had the gate locked?

- Likely suspect: Intgar

 

Whose eyes were on Rand when he was traveling the keep?

- Likely suspects: Fain, Liandrin, Moiraine?

 

Anyone have any insight on these that prove them out a bit better?

[ROB_88]

There's a lot during that plot line that is confusing. Let's try and put some characters on the various events.

 

Rand and Lan sparing and Rand gets pushed towards Lan's practice blade by Air.

- Likely suspects: Liandrin, DO?

 

Whose eyes were on Rand when he was traveling the keep?

- Likely suspects: Fain, Liandrin, Moiraine?

 

RJ said himself that the wind was the effect of a bubble of evil

and i still think the "eyes" was just the grey man that tried to shoot him

[Balefire to da face!]

-A little while later Rand is dissapointed when he hears that the guard has been tripled, but then is surprised to find out that the order against anyone leaving has been lifted.

no, after the fight Ingtar says that Agelmar just ordered the gates closed. When Rand asks, Ingtar says he heard nothing about earlier orders.

 

But what about the assassination attempt? What were the eyes following Rand? Rats maybe, the servants of the DO ???

that gotta be a a gray man

 

1. About Ingtar...I didn't realize it was him who personally told Rand that there has been no such order. It definitely points to Ingtar being the guilty party, but also I have to wonder why Ingtar would risk so openly lying about such things. If they had not taken off to hunt for the horn his lies would have been extremely transparnent.

 

2. But who ordered the grary man? At this point in the series Rand has not one but two Forsaken personally looking out for him. Also, about your latter post, it seems unlikely to me that the eyes were a gray man. What in thier MO suggests that they would watch thier prey like that? If the gray man had Rand in his sights, alone, he would try to take him out right there.

 

I believe the eyes following Rand were Fain's. He's still partly the DO hound and made in such a way that he could track Rand.

 

Perhaps....but why would Rand only feel this when he was trying to escape from the Amyrlin? It seemed like someone was watching Rand as he tried to escape. Fain would have no interest in only watching Rand while he was trying to escape. Moiraine would, but it doesn't appear to be her. And maybe, like I said, rats as the DO eyes. But then we have Liandrin going through the trouble of having the keep searched. So the dark didn't seem to know where Rand was either.....

 

 

[Mashiara Sedai]

We see the Darkfriend meeting from Bors' (Carridin's) POV, but he takes notice of a few Aes Sedai and a Shienarian.  The assassins and the ban to keep Rand in could have easily been instructed to Ingtar when he was at the meeting.  That would explain why it only came once Ingtar was back and how the assassins knew to hunt Rand.  I'm sure Ingtar told everything he knew about the three boys.

 

~Mashiara