Is Callandor now safe too use?

[scott_swampy]

In The Path of Daggers, chapter 27.  Cadsuane says:

 

 

"It is flawed," she [Cadsuane] replied curtly, "lacking the buffer that makes other sa'angreal safe to use.  And it apparently magnifies the taint, inducing wildness of the mind."

 

So too my mind that would mean that Callandor is now safe too use because Rand cleansed the source.

 

Thoughts?

[Luckers]

No, it is not safe to use. Lacking a buffer it would be easy to draw too much and kill oneself.

 

It will no longer induce the same insanity in it's user, however.

[scott_swampy]

When do we learn that that is the danger it poses? From the quote I provide above and the surrounding conversation the implication is that the madness is the risk.

[Swigaro]

When do we learn that that is the danger it poses? From the quote I provide above and the surrounding conversation the implication is that the madness is the risk.

 

 

The answer is in the quote you provided.  The buffer that Cadsuane mentions is what protects the user of an angrael or sa'angrael from over drawing, making it impossible to burn yourself out or kill yourself while using it.  Callandor has no buffer.  In addition to this flaw, it magnifies the effects of the taint.  The latter problem has been eliminated by the Cleansing, the lack of a buffer is still an issue.  One could say it is safer to use now.  If a man and a woman were to link, the natural buffering effect of that link would likely make Callandor safe to use (as it was used at the Cleansing).

 

[scott_swampy]

Ahhh OK thank you . Wise you are. Both of you.

 

Thanks.

[OptimusPrime]

It will no longer induce the same insanity in it's user, however.

 

Unless, of course, someone who was already mentally damaged when teh Cleansing took place used it. If Rand uses it, hes just as likely to go loopy as he did before

[Arkelias]

Man, what a messed up legacy to leave for the Dragon Reborn.  They couldn't find a fully functional Sa'Angreal to leave him?  Really?  It had to be a broken one?

 

If it was going to be broken couldn't they have like, I don't know, left an out of order sign or something?  Just to give him fair warning that it was broken?

[Luckers]

Maybe they tried too--Cadsuane certainly found reference to it. But three thousand years is a long time, and with Breaking/Trolloc Wars/War of a Hundred Years between it's easy for knowledge to get lost.

 

On the other hand Deindre may have foreseen that they shouldn't. After all Rand's fear of Callandor (resulting from the incident with the little girl, which had he known of the dangers he would not have tried) stopped him from using the Choedan Kal earlier on to cleanse saidin--which, had he done so without Cadsuane and her coterie would have seen him dead or in the hands of the Shadow along with the Choedan Kal and with the taint still strong.

[Swigaro]

Man, what a messed up legacy to leave for the Dragon Reborn.  They couldn't find a fully functional Sa'Angreal to leave him?  Really?  It had to be a broken one?

 

If it was going to be broken couldn't they have like, I don't know, left an out of order sign or something?  Just to give him fair warning that it was broken?

 

This left me with an immage of a sword spinning slowly in the air with a sign in the old tongue hanging from the cross guards...  Not as cool an image, but it gave me a laugh...

 

 

On the other hand Deindre may have foreseen that they shouldn't. After all Rand's fear of Callandor (resulting from the incident with the little girl, which had he known of the dangers he would not have tried) stopped him from using the Choedan Kal earlier on to cleanse saidin--which, had he done so without Cadsuane and her coterie would have seen him dead or in the hands of the Shadow along with the Choedan Kal and with the taint still strong.

 

This topic, and your reply, Luckers, made me wonder how much they knew, or suspected.  Both the creation of the Eye of the World and the placement of Callandor were the result of fortellings.  In present day Randland, many Fortellings are grossly misinterpreted (i.e. Elida's tendency to interprate based on her prefrences, rather than a more objective measure).  Communication and understanding are such key issues in RJ's writing, it makes me wonder if they were any better at interprating than the current age Aes Sedai seem to be...

[Arkelias]

You raise a really good point Luckers.  Learning that Callandor was dangerous may have tempered Rand's actions.  I hadn't considered that.

 

An out of order style weave set to tell him its limitations might have been Xanth style funny, but it wouldn't fit the WoT =(

 

It still made me laugh though!

[FallingBullets]

This topic, and your reply, Luckers, made me wonder how much they knew, or suspected.  Both the creation of the Eye of the World and the placement of Callandor were the result of fortellings.  In present day Randland, many Fortellings are grossly misinterpreted (i.e. Elida's tendency to interprate based on her prefrences, rather than a more objective measure).  Communication and understanding are such key issues in RJ's writing, it makes me wonder if they were any better at interprating than the current age Aes Sedai seem to be...

they had had a relatively peaceful and knowledgeable period of time to perfect a science around fortelling, and maybe more control over it at all. Maybe Calandor was rushed into production or merely a faulty good from a production line that survived. Maybe they knew that it had to be un-protected, for the fulfilment of a yet to be divulged prophecy that needs more-than-safe levels...anything is possible

[yellie1107]

Man, what a messed up legacy to leave for the Dragon Reborn.  They couldn't find a fully functional Sa'Angreal to leave him?  Really?  It had to be a broken one?

 

If it was going to be broken couldn't they have like, I don't know, left an out of order sign or something?  Just to give him fair warning that it was broken?

 

I think that was done on purpose as everyone knew that men were going nuts. Women didn't trust men Aes Sedai no matter DR or not. They figured that if it is known that the thing can only be used while linked with women, then the Dragon would have to use two sane people for any use. That just puts more strings on the Dragon Reborn for the White Tower.

[Arkelias]

I was under the impression that the White Tower didn't exist when Callandor was brought to the stone, but I don't know the timeline well enough to be sure.  Can anyone confirm this?

[Mr. Micawber]

Technically, you can't even use it in a male/female circle.

 

It's got to have at least one more woman, because she's got to lead; if the man leads, you're still in the same boat.

[Swigaro]

Yes, that is what Cadsuane said, but, was she correct?  I find it hard to believe that there is a buffer built into an all female circle, a 1 male 2 female circle but not a 1 male 1 female circle.  That would suggest that even without Callandor, a man linked with a woman could intentionally burn her out by overdrawing (or vice versa).  I am fairly certain that is not the case.  The dynamics of linking were pretty clearly laid out (in PoD, I think).  I took her statement to suggest that being in a circle with a man in controll is, by deffinition unsafe, thus the only way for it to be safe is to guarentee that a woman has to be in control.  I think she was doing a bit of Aes Sedai truth bending when she said he needed 2 women to use it safely...

[WWWwombat]

Yes, that is what Cadsuane said, but, was she correct?  I find it hard to believe that there is a buffer built into an all female circle, a 1 male 2 female circle but not a 1 male 1 female circle.  That would suggest that even without Callandor, a man linked with a woman could intentionally burn her out by overdrawing (or vice versa).  I am fairly certain that is not the case.  The dynamics of linking were pretty clearly laid out (in PoD, I think).  I took her statement to suggest that being in a circle with a man in controll is, by deffinition unsafe, thus the only way for it to be safe is to guarentee that a woman has to be in control.  I think she was doing a bit of Aes Sedai truth bending when she said he needed 2 women to use it safely...

 

Not so much truth bending as at the time the taint existed and she had no clue he planned to cleanse it.  Magnified taint madness even with a buffer would still be dangerous.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

cadsuane didnt bend the truth at all. the buffer exists in all circles, including those with men in control. the reason callandor would cause harm if the man led is because he is drawing saidin through it, and callandor has no buffer. the buffer only prevents the one leading the circle from drawing too much of the power through those he or she is linked with. rand could be linked with elayne, and since it is one man one woman he would have to lead. she would be protected from overdrawing saidar, but he could still burn himself out by overexerting and drawing too much of saidin. likewise, with an angreal or sa'angreal which does not have the buffer, a man would need two women in the ring, so one of them could lead, and hence he would be protected from overdrawing, even through flawed callandor.

 

it stands to reason that this is also true in all female circles, that the leader is the only one at risk. however, it is probably harder for a female to burn herself out, as she is not in a constant fight for control with the power. so in truth a man would be more likely to burn himself out, and also more likely to mess up by slipping and losing control as opposed to drawing too much of the power.

 

mr. micawber is correct in saying it would be pointless to use it and hope for the buffer in a one man one woman link because he has to lead hence the risk is still imminent.

 

also, the white tower didnt exist when callandor was put into the stone to await the coming of the dragon, but even before the tower the female aes sedai were meddling in everyones business, and it is possible that they assumed the aes sedai of the time would have a handle on him and not allow him to attempt to use it without their guidance. we know this wasnt the case, so the long dead puppetmasters must be rolling in their graves. hehehe!

[Arkelias]

And kicking themselves for forgetting to leave an out of order sign.

[Mr Ares]

the buffer exists in all circles, including those with men in control. the reason callandor would cause harm if the man led is because he is drawing saidin through it, and callandor has no buffer. the buffer only prevents the one leading the circle from drawing too much of the power through those he or she is linked with.

Admit it, you just made that up. No, the reason is that Callandor magnifies the taint, and women won't have been using tainted saidin. It reduces the risk of them going loopy. No-one can be burnt out in a link so far as we have any reason to believe.