Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Khan]

Here we go then;

• Taim reveals his true allegiance, as a Dreadlord and being under orders from Demandred. The Black Tower is split with Logain emerging victor.
  
• Egwene finds Mesaana in the White Tower, Mesaana either does something totally awesome and escapes (she's not as weak as assumed and is actually one of the most intelligent of the female Forsaken) or she is captured and actually wishes to join the Light (yes, another Asmodean), which I would like to see, but doubt. I've always liked Mesaana.
  
• Mat rescues Moiraine with Thom and Noal.
  
• Rand has a big faceoff with Demandred. It will be epic.
  

 

I may think up more, but I'm tired.

[FarShainMael]

k here is what i am talking about

 

“The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.”

  —Nicola Treehill, Lord of Chaos, Chapter 14

 

so what i was saying was i think it unlikely that elayne dies since i think she is the lion sword being talked about, this is very Arthurian, after the battle where arthur is very badly wounded he is put on a boat with 3 women to go to Avalon to wait for when the world needs him again.

 

I'm wondering if 'she who sees beyond' is not in fact Min, but Egwene. The description could fit either woman - viewings and dreams. ISTR that Egwene has Skimmed using a boat as a platform.

 

Of course, this suggests that Min may die..

[Crael123]

I'm wondering if 'she who sees beyond' is not in fact Min, but Egwene. The description could fit either woman - viewings and dreams. ISTR that Egwene has Skimmed using a boat as a platform.

 

Of course, this suggests that Min may die..

MIn Better NOT DIE

[FarShainMael]

MIn Better NOT DIE

 

That would truly be a 'heart-wrenching moment' which would bring Rand 'pain of heart'.

[Khan]

Min is one of the best female characters in the book, she better not die. In Nynaeve's words, "If you die I'll skin you alive."

[FarShainMael]

Found the reference to Egwene skimming in a boat, actually a barge; it's in aCos 12.

 

She needs to take Lan to Ebou Dar:

Weaving a gateway where he had been practicing the sword.. she stepped through onto what seemed to be a ferry, floating in darkness that stretched forever. Skimming required a platform, and though it could be anything you chose to imagine, every sister semmed to have one she preferred. For her that was this wooden barge, with stout railings. If she fell off, she could make another barge beneath her.. but for anyone who could not channel, that fall would be as endless as the black that ran off in every direction.

[Naffy]

Yeah, I knew what you were talking about.  As I said, Melaine and Bair had a dream (also in LOC) saying pretty much the same thing.  I'm saying Nicola's 'great battle' probably does not refer to the Last Battle as everyone assumes.  If the Last Battle was done, then Rand's body should not be so important.  More likely the 'great battle' is the Battle of Caemlyn.  And while I believe Rand's death will be very Arthurian, it won't follow the legends exactly.  My guess is that the prophecies concerning Rand and a funeral pyre suggest that his body will be burned, and that the body on the boat will be his new body that was ripped out of Tel'aran'rhiod.  That's why the women are central to the prophecies; they have to bond him again to save him from death as Elayne saved Birgitte.

I've always wondered "Why a boat?" If the three are indeed Elayne, Avi, and Min, what the heck use do they have for a boat? Two of them can Travel.

[FarShainMael]

I've always wondered "Why a boat?" If the three are indeed Elayne, Avi, and Min, what the heck use do they have for a boat? Two of them can Travel.

 

See my post above about Egwene using a boat (all right, a barge) as a skimming platform.

[Naffy]

See my post above about Egwene using a boat (all right, a barge) as a skimming platform.

Doh. Makes sense to me.

[Crael123]

That would truly be a 'heart-wrenching moment' which would bring Rand 'pain of heart'.

 

 

YEAH but its elaynes job to die!!! not min!!! as fel said, she is too pretty. lol

[Terez]

I've always wondered "Why a boat?" If the three are indeed Elayne, Avi, and Min, what the heck use do they have for a boat? Two of them can Travel.

 

I'm not really sure about this, but there are a few good ideas out there. If it's a Skimming platform, they they are most likely taking him to Shayol Ghul with Aviendha's dagger ter'angreal (blade of light?)...unless they ripped him out of Tel'aran'rhiod straight into the Skimming Space. That would be odd, but I can see a purpose for it, since they'll likely want to keep his return secret at least at first. But there are some interesting hints about Rand's resurrection in the Perun legends. Jesus is the obvious basis for resurrection in the myths/legends, and Arthur is the obvious basis for the three women and the boat, but in the Perun legends, there are also three women. One can see the past, one the present, and one the future. They watch over the dead waters and living waters that spring from the roots of the Tree of Life, and decide the fate of the world. The two springs are necessary for the resurrection of a dead hero, and Perun himself is important to this as well. My guess is that this parallels Perrin's ultimate battle with Slayer, as Slayer hunts Rand in Tel'aran'rhiod after his death, in order to destroy his soul permanently. This fits with the hints in the Dark Prophecy.

 

The two springs seem to have a parallel in the Two Rivers, not just with the Winespring, but also from the fact that the Two Rivers both form in the Mountains of mist at the border of the lost nation of Almoth, which once had a chora tree, and has the tree on its banner. If they are looking for a nice secluded place to rip him out, there is foreshadowing of Rand with his three women in the Waterwood. :) They are important because they will have to bond him again to save his life once he is ripped out. (the three shall be one?) Anyway, the point of all this is that RJ tried to write WoT so that it could be the basis of all the myths and legends of our world, and there is definitely some potential for these connections. Brandon specifically said that we should look into Perun.

[Crossroad]

Nice work Terez. A lot of things are much clearer, especially those darn Forseeings.

[Terez]

Oh, and i meant to mention that it might be connected to the Sea Folk custom of giving birth on the water and giving the dead to the water. It also might be that the transient nature of water makes it harder for people to find Rand via gateway or reading the Pattern.

[Sid]

oooh, past present and future, i.e. Avi, Elyane, Min.

I'm catching on a little here.... yeahhh

[FarShainMael]

I'd not heard of Perun before, so I consulted Wikipedia, and was intrigued to find that he's the Slav equivalent of the Norse god Thor. I was even more intrigued by this:

 

Perun pursued Veles around the earth, attacking him with his lightning bolts from the sky. Veles fled from him by transforming himself into various animals, or hiding behind trees, houses or people; wherever a lightning bolt struck, it was believed, this was because Veles hid from Perun under or behind that particular place. In the end, Perun managed to kill Veles, or to chase him back down into his watery underworld. The supreme god thus reestablished the order in the world which had been disrupted by his chaotic enemy.

 

(From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perun )

 

 

Sounds like Rand chasing Rahvin through T'A'R in TFoH55, doesn't it?

[FarShainMael]

I speculate that Rand will turn out to be Obi-Wan Kenobi reborn, and will hold a blade of light...

 

 

 

Oh yes. Please tell me this isn't a WoT spoof..

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1634122/

[FarShainMael]

Min is one of the best female characters in the book, she better not die. In Nynaeve's words, "If you die I'll skin you alive."

 

I don't want to worry you, but..

 

The list ran through his head. Almost a daily ritual now, the name of every woman who had died by his hand or because of his actions.

...

The list always began with Moiraine. That name hurt most of all, for he could have saved her. He should have.

...

{Rand runs through various names, including Semirhage and Elza, even though they were DF, because he had used balefire on them.

 

Then: }

 

But Lews Therin had one more name to add. Elmindreda Farshaw, he whispered.

 

Rand pulled Tai'daishar up short.. I did not kill her! Rand thought. Lews Therin, she lives on. We didn't kill her! That was Semirhage who was to blame, in any case.

 

Silence.

 

...

Min might die here, but if he sent her away, she would be in just as much danger. His enemies likely suspected that he loved her.

 

There was no safety. If she died, he would add her to the list and suffer for it.

 

Foreshadowing?

[FarShainMael]

I've just had one of those 'ye-gods-and-little-fishes' moments.

 

In TGS39, Verin is talking with Egwene. She gives Eg those books holding the names of the BA she's identified, and shows Eg how to use the bookmark ter'angrreal to conceal them. She also says something about it being the Brown Ajah's duty to arm the world with knowledge.

 

"Someone from the AoL, it appears, was very worried about hiding his or her journal from others."

 

I'll bet that such a concealed journal was amng the books that Min retrieved from Herid Fel's library.. and I'm waiting for her to stub her toe on something unseen!

[Khan]

I've just had one of those 'ye-gods-and-little-fishes' moments.

 

In TGS39, Verin is talking with Egwene. She gives Eg those books holding the names of the BA she's identified, and shows Eg how to use the bookmark ter'angrreal to conceal them. She also says something about it being the Brown Ajah's duty to arm the world with knowledge.

 

"Someone from the AoL, it appears, was very worried about hiding his or her journal from others."

 

I'll bet that such a concealed journal was amng the books that Min retrieved from Herid Fel's library.. and I'm waiting for her to stub her toe on something unseen!

 

I must say that I cannot wait for the reason for Fel's death, he was such an amazing guy! And really, don't say that about Min! Damn you foreshadowing...

[Byzantine279]

Personally i would just find it funny if when all hope is lost and the forces of light are clearly going to lose several hundred Aes Sedai from the AoL suddenly show up and turn the tide. It has been eluded to that you could hide in a sufficiently slow-time world or vacuole and simply wait for a certain amount of time to pass, or in their case, wait for the source to be cleansed. (After all, some men tried to hide in steddings to escape their fate, it wouldn't surprise me if some were smart enough to figure out the source MUST be cleansed eventually and hide somewhere where time is distorted enough that they barely felt the passage of 3,000 years.)

[bysomy]

The AoL Aes Sedai are all hiding out in TAR, hence the unseen eyes

[FarShainMael]

I've just had one of those 'ye-gods-and-little-fishes' moments.

 

In TGS39, Verin is talking with Egwene. She gives Eg those books holding the names of the BA she's identified, and shows Eg how to use the bookmark ter'angrreal to conceal them. She also says something about it being the Brown Ajah's duty to arm the world with knowledge.

 

"Someone from the AoL, it appears, was very worried about hiding his or her journal from others."

 

I'll bet that such a concealed journal was amng the books that Min retrieved from Herid Fel's library.. and I'm waiting for her to stub her toe on something unseen!

 

I must say that I cannot wait for the reason for Fel's death, he was such an amazing guy! And really, don't say that about Min! Damn you foreshadowing...

 

:P

 

Actually I agree, as an academic myself! I'd hate to see Min go, not least for what it will do to Rand.

[DemandredFO]

Best place I've found for this; I think Egwene's seanchan woman dream helping her to the top was fulfilled in tGS. A woman with a flickering face but a solid sword on her back tried to help Egwene, "Together we can make it." I'm positive Egwene would've been killed without the seanchan, Eliada's power was crumbling but I think she would've killed Egwene before she was pulled down. What if the price for Tuon being raised was an assault on the tower.

[scraps18]

Best place I've found for this; I think Egwene's seanchan woman dream helping her to the top was fulfilled in tGS. A woman with a flickering face but a solid sword on her back tried to help Egwene, "Together we can make it." I'm positive Egwene would've been killed without the seanchan, Eliada's power was crumbling but I think she would've killed Egwene before she was pulled down. What if the price for Tuon being raised was an assault on the tower.

Egeanin?

[Lironah]

Min is one of the best female characters in the book, she better not die. In Nynaeve's words, "If you die I'll skin you alive."

 

I don't want to worry you, but..

 

The list ran through his head. Almost a daily ritual now, the name of every woman who had died by his hand or because of his actions.

...

The list always began with Moiraine. That name hurt most of all, for he could have saved her. He should have.

...

{Rand runs through various names, including Semirhage and Elza, even though they were DF, because he had used balefire on them.

 

Then: }

 

But Lews Therin had one more name to add. Elmindreda Farshaw, he whispered.

 

Rand pulled Tai'daishar up short.. I did not kill her! Rand thought. Lews Therin, she lives on. We didn't kill her! That was Semirhage who was to blame, in any case.

 

Silence.

 

...

Min might die here, but if he sent her away, she would be in just as much danger. His enemies likely suspected that he loved her.

 

There was no safety. If she died, he would add her to the list and suffer for it.

 

Foreshadowing?

 

Naw. Min has to stay alive so that her bond to Rand will help him stay alive even when he should by all rights be dead. The whole bond giving strength thing. Plus, "Three on the boat"...