mat's medallion

[taters]

Just an idea: if mat's medallion works against Saidar, will it work against Saidin, and does it work against balefire? If so i think it would be really cool if, and this is really random, he lent it to Rand for the last battle. This would make Rand virtually unstoppable!

 

What do you guys think?

[rochaid]

well mat gets killed by rahvin's lightening in the FoH so...not much good to rand if he can get killed by a relatively simple weave like that

[Slothman]

plus it would probably get in the way of rand own weavings

[Guest Majsju]

It does work against Saidin, we saw that when Aran'gar tried to channel at him in Salidar.

 

That he was killed by Rahvin's lightning is the same effect as when Elayne and the others discover that they can throw rocks at him with Saidar, the medallion only blocks direct weaves, not objects thrown by using Saidin or Saidar.

[merlinspetrock]

The only evidence I know that it does work against Saidin is in Salidar, Halima (Male forsaken in a womans body)channels at him and makes a face when nothing happens.

[Kadere]

It wouldn't make Rand unstoppable, he could still be killed by things like lightning, or things thrown at him, or swords, or whatever, just like Mat. But it would be a nice advantage.

 

Except Mat would NEVER be up to it.

[Guest Majsju]

There's also the little detail that is still unanswered: Does the medallion protect against TP? Way to go if it doesn't, Rand walks up to Moridin thinking he's invincible, and gets toasted by TP.

 

Btw, a channeler can channel if he or she is wearing the medallion, Cadsuane wears a ter'angreal that works pretty much the same way.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Rahvin killed Mat and Aviendha with lightening while Mat was wearing the medalion, before Rand balefired Rahvin. So I think the medalion only protects against Saidar. Either that or Rahvin was using the True Power, but I dont think he did because Rand could sense everything Rahvin was channeling.

[RobertAlexWillis]

There is another thread that discusses why lightning that began with channeling could still hit on or very close to Mat, without invoking the protection of the medallion. The medallion does stop Saidin as well as Saidar. It was given to him in response to his desire to be free from "Aes Sedai and the Power". The "Power" includes both Saidin and Saidar.

[Luckers]

On Balefire.

 

It's not certain wether balefire is a weave, or an effect of a weave, but my money is on the latter.

 

By effect of a weave i mean things that are started because of a weave, but then continue in their actions because of the nature of physics, not because they are being sustained by the power. Lightning is like this, in it electrons are incited into moving by the power (they are given energy, i would assumed... kind of like how in the photoelectric effect light gives electrons energy to move--solar power) but after being given that power they move on their own in a lightning strike that has nothing to do with the power. Gateways also seem to be an effect of the power, rather then a weave itself.

 

So anyway, its unknown, though balefire seems somewhat different to other weaves, so i reckon it might be an effect... especially since it has to be woven in a bar that leaves from the channeler. Fire can be woven at the spot of the victim, or in a fireball, or a number of other things, but balefire must originate from the channeler. Additionally, if balefire is just a weave... why not slice it? Yet every time the Forsaken have concidered balefire they concider fleeing... no preparing to sever a weave or anything else, just fleeing.

[RobertAlexWillis]

If the balefire hit the medallion directly, it MIGHT offer some protection, as Callandor did for Rand, or cuendillar would. But I agree with Luckers, if it hits Mat anywhere else ... well ... someone else better pucker their lips for the Horn.

[Luckers]

Well either balefire is a weave and the medallion will stop it, or it isn't a weave and it wont... i doubt where it hits will be an issue... unless the medallion is cuendillar, which, whilst being possible, we've had no indication of.

 

Also, what Rand split with Callandor most likely was not balefire for the mere fact that Rand should not have been able to stop balefire with a crystal sword OR the power. My guess is that it was just really hot fire.

[RobertAlexWillis]

"As if to answer him, a blazing shaft like the one Moiraine had made shot out of the shadows among the columns, straight toward his chest. His wrist twisted the swordinstinctively; it was instinct as much as anything else that made his loose flows from saidin into Callandor, a flood of the Power that made the sword blaze brighter even than that bar streaking at him. His uncertain balance between existence and destruction wavered. Surely that torrent would consume him.

 

"The shaft of light struck the blade of Callandor - and parted on it's edge, forking to stream past on either side. He felt his coat singe from it's near passage, smelled the wool beginning to burn. Behind him, the two prongs of frozen fire, of liquid light, struck huge redstone columns; where they struck, stone ceased to exist, and the burning bars bored through to other columns, serving [sic] those instantaneously as well. The Heart of the Stone rumbled as columns fell and shattered in clouds of dust, sprays of stone fragments. What fell into the light, however, simply - was not, anymore."

 

(The Dragon Reborn, What is Written in Prophecy, p. 534)

 

I'm sorry, but that sounds EXACTLY like balefire to me.

 

I don't think we know everything about balefire. Moiraine said it would destroy anything but cuendillar, but at one point Moiraine would have said that stilling could not be healed. Maybe there is a way to defend against balefire with the Power. Maybe Callandor is made of a form of cuendillar. One thing that is obvious in Jordan's writing is that just because someone says "this is the rule" doesn't make it so.

[Luckers]

And another thing is that just because on uneducated character percieves something in a specific way doesn't mean it is that way. On one hand it has things in common with the description of balefire, on the other hand it has other descriptions that don't. I lean to it not being balefire.

[RobertAlexWillis]

What descriptions don't fit balefire?

[Luckers]

Um the fact that Callandor stopped it. The fact that it split. This matches no other known discriptions of balefire, including when its interacted with cuendillar. Cuendillar is immune because it absorbs power, no matter what. When hit the beam is absorbed.

 

We have, to date, no evidence that balefire can be diverted in such a manner. And indeed, judging from the thoughts of Rhavin when he met with Lanfear, Graendal and Sammael, evidence that it can't be.

 

Additionally, the description doesn't match early balefire use. Early balefire use all involved an inversion of colour before the person disapeared.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Additionally, the description doesn't match early balefire use. Early balefire use all involved an inversion of colour before the person disapeared.

 

Since no people were hit by this beam of balefire, that is irrelevant.

 

Um the fact that Callandor stopped it. The fact that it split. This matches no other known discriptions of balefire, including when its interacted with cuendillar. Cuendillar is immune because it absorbs power, no matter what. When hit the beam is absorbed.

 

You're right about Cuendillar. But no one had ever shot balefire at Callandor before, so how do we know how it would react. It has many other properties, unique and different from other sa'angreal. Many things that "were never known before" have happened in this saga. How do we know that Callandor can't block, split, or in some other way divert balefire. Also, ho do we know that there isn't a weave that Rand instinctively used that can block balefire? To much of what we know about balefire is based on assumptions. It is unlikely that Ishamael would use a weave that was exactly like balefire except that it was blockable by things that couldn't block balefire.