How does forced turning-to-the-Shadow work?

[Titan Orion]

I personally dont think there is any sort of transfer of emotions from Myrddraal to subject. RJs explanation would surely have mentioned it. I get that the victim changes according to his or her own original personality, the existing darker elements becoming stronger. I reckon it is the True Power present in the Myrddraal that causes the personality change.

[Luckers]

The Accepted test makes you confront your own fears IIRC, so any events that happen in the Ter'angreal arent necessarily accurate as to what would happen in reality.

 

Whilst they arn't true directly, there are elements of truth within them, which suggests more goes on than simply showing their own personal fears. Consider Sharina Melloy's presence in Nynaeve's trip.

 

And Egwene's which involved a side-effect from the interaction between the Accepted ter'angreal and the Twisted Ring ter'angreal seems to involve more than that. Consider the number of true elements.

 

1. Egwene as Amyrlin.

2. Egwene not bound by oaths.

3. Egwene's knowledge of balefire.

4. The presence of Beldeine.

5. Egwene being capture by Elaida.

6. Elaida usurping the Amyrlin Seat.

 

This can't be taken as prophecy, but its more than just fears.

 

 

[Shard]

I think that looking at Lanfear may be a good example of what someone turned against their will would be like.  There is, im my mind, at least a chance that she was turned in a similar way as with the myrdraal when they tapped into the True Power in the AoL.  The Myrdraal may be something similar, linking the person directly to the DO, or some such, and letting him "corrupt" their soul.  Just my interpretations though. 

 

Jordan has already said that Lanfear was ready to turn to the DO long before the Bore was even drilled.

[Titan Orion]

I think that looking at Lanfear may be a good example of what someone turned against their will would be like.  There is, im my mind, at least a chance that she was turned in a similar way as with the myrdraal when they tapped into the True Power in the AoL.  The Myrdraal may be something similar, linking the person directly to the DO, or some such, and letting him "corrupt" their soul.  Just my interpretations though. 

 

Jordan has already said that Lanfear was ready to turn to the DO long before the Bore was even drilled.

 

Indeed he did. Also I seem to recall it being Lanfear who actually drilled the hole in the Bore by mistake when searching for a Power source usable by both genders. You can imagine her reaction when she found out what she had done; she would have been ready to swear fealty immediately

[Luckers]

I think that looking at Lanfear may be a good example of what someone turned against their will would be like.  There is, im my mind, at least a chance that she was turned in a similar way as with the myrdraal when they tapped into the True Power in the AoL.  The Myrdraal may be something similar, linking the person directly to the DO, or some such, and letting him "corrupt" their soul.  Just my interpretations though. 

 

Jordan has already said that Lanfear was ready to turn to the DO long before the Bore was even drilled.

 

Indeed he did. Also I seem to recall it being Lanfear who actually drilled the hole in the Bore by mistake when searching for a Power source usable by both genders. You can imagine her reaction when she found out what she had done; she would have been ready to swear fealty immediately

 

Indeed he did NOT. Prior to the drilling of the bore no one knew the Dark One existed. That being said Lanfear was involved in drilling the bore. Mierin Eronaile was her name, and working with a team including someone named Beidomon they detected the energy the Dark One gave off, and drilled a bore through the pattern in a desire to tap a source of energy that both male and female channelers could use.

 

She did not swear fealty immediatly--or at least there is no comments to that effect. Much later she announced her alleigence to the shadow in the Hall of Servants, and it may be that she turned quite fast, though Ishamael, Semirhage and Graendal are stated to be amongst the earliest Aes Sedai to swear for the Shadow, whilst Lanfear is not.

 

By the way it does not seem that those involved in the drilling of the bore knew of the Dark One. It was Ishamael that announced the nature of the Dark One to the world, Beidomon and Mierin never mention it. So no immediate preception of the nature of the evil they'd unleashed. Beidomon kills himself years later out of shame, but thats years later.

 

uote

4. The presence of Beldeine.

 

Um ... Beldeine was last seen watching Rand get his hand blown off in northern Altara.  How was that part of the test accurate?  Beldeine is nowhere near Tar Valon ...

 

I was speaking of the existence of Beldeine, whom Egwene hadn't encountered, not her roll as Keeper. Though that may yet happen (though honestly i think Tarna will end up as Keeper).

[Caedn of the Taardad]

I think that looking at Lanfear may be a good example of what someone turned against their will would be like.  There is, im my mind, at least a chance that she was turned in a similar way as with the myrdraal when they tapped into the True Power in the AoL.  The Myrdraal may be something similar, linking the person directly to the DO, or some such, and letting him "corrupt" their soul.  Just my interpretations though. 

 

Jordan has already said that Lanfear was ready to turn to the DO long before the Bore was even drilled.

 

Indeed he did. Also I seem to recall it being Lanfear who actually drilled the hole in the Bore by mistake when searching for a Power source usable by both genders. You can imagine her reaction when she found out what she had done; she would have been ready to swear fealty immediately

 

Indeed he did NOT. Prior to the drilling of the bore no one knew the Dark One existed. That being said Lanfear was involved in drilling the bore. Mierin Eronaile was her name, and working with a team including someone named Beidomon they detected the energy the Dark One gave off, and drilled a bore through the pattern in a desire to tap a source of energy that both male and female channelers could use.

 

She did not swear fealty immediatly--or at least there is no comments to that effect. Much later she announced her alleigence to the shadow in the Hall of Servants, and it may be that she turned quite fast, though Ishamael, Semirhage and Graendal are stated to be amongst the earliest Aes Sedai to swear for the Shadow, whilst Lanfear is not.

 

By the way it does not seem that those involved in the drilling of the bore knew of the Dark One. It was Ishamael that announced the nature of the Dark One to the world, Beidomon and Mierin never mention it. So no immediate preception of the nature of the evil they'd unleashed. Beidomon kills himself years later out of shame, but thats years later.

 

 

Also, her personality since the Bore has definately changed, as one just couldn't see spitefull, jealous Lanfear giveing one of her Aiel "servants" her blessings for a transfer according to mairage, so a conversion may have occured, and if it was simple jealousy, it is still a good example. 

[thatsnotgood]

Indeed, if it had been successful, she might have gotten the third name (which she didn't have, despite her apparently astonishing strength and ability with the Power).

 

Third name? not sure what you're talking about? am I missing some lore?

[Chance]

I've always thought of forced turning to the shadow to be some kind of doppleganger effect. Like when Mr. Spock got a goattee and became evil Mr. Spock, along with evil Capt. Kirk, etc. The evil twin sernario. From what Majsju posted of RJ's answer, it seems that someone turned could be turned back, just they wouldn't want to be turned back. I can't remember any kind of example of a person turned to the shadow, being turned back. But their are references, by AS to the effect that, no one is so far gone from the light that can't be brought back. So maybe it could happen.

[Titan Orion]

Sounds reasonable, since everything we have noticed that a channeler can sense can be interacted with in some way, or at least it seems that way. I wonder who would be a good candidate for the person to do the "turning back." Surely not Nynaeve or Damer Flynn, I cant see any connection between turning and Healing

[Neemo]

or EVIL INDY in "temple of doom"  :)

[Luckers]

Also, her personality since the Bore has definately changed, as one just couldn't see spitefull, jealous Lanfear giveing one of her Aiel "servants" her blessings for a transfer according to mairage, so a conversion may have occured, and if it was simple jealousy, it is still a good example. 

 

I don;t know if i would say changed--Lews Therin references prior indications of her nature. It is rather that her spitefulness would not have been allowed within the Aes Sedai. Had she acted as she wished she would have been censured. Amongst the Forsaken, though, she felt free to... bloom.

 

Third name? not sure what you're talking about? am I missing some lore?

 

In the Age of Legends the greatest prestige possible was to gain a third name, which were given to people who had greatly served society. People were born with two names (Lews Therin, for instance) and through service to society could gain the third (Lews Therin Telamon).

 

Lanfear greatly desire this, but never gained it.

 

 

 

Lanfear appeared to be more than she was. He great strength in the power, her great beauty. Both imply a person of greatness--but she never really reached it. Even as one of the leading Chosen all she did was turn a few Councilers.

[thatsnotgood]

Is the third name demonstrated any where else? and how do you know that?

[Caedn of the Taardad]

Also, her personality since the Bore has definately changed, as one just couldn't see spitefull, jealous Lanfear giveing one of her Aiel "servants" her blessings for a transfer according to mairage, so a conversion may have occured, and if it was simple jealousy, it is still a good example. 

 

I don;t know if i would say changed--Lews Therin references prior indications of her nature. It is rather that her spitefulness would not have been allowed within the Aes Sedai. Had she acted as she wished she would have been censured. Amongst the Forsaken, though, she felt free to... bloom.

 

 

I stand corrected, I never thought of her hiding who she was.  Something new to think about...  Thanks...

-Wanders off lost deeply in thought, bell rings-

[Builder]

Oh I desperately need to get the BWB and read it!

[Carteeg_Struve]

Has there been any case in which somebody has been shown to had been turned to the Shadow? I can't remember a specific victim to this.