Redemption?

[adverge]

I know that Ingtar (sp?) came back to the light in Falme, but it seems like no other Darkfriends have or are likely to.  Did I miss anyone?  Are there any Darkfriends who seem like they might turn to the light?  What about vice versa?

[Jambo]

Well I don't know about Darkfriends going good, but I can see Perrin pulling an Anakin Skywalker if Faile gets killed or he believes she gets killed.

[water_seeker]

Plz don't turn this into another who killed Asmo thread...but b4 he was offed I thought Asmo might actually turn to the Light if he was around Rand long enough...

[Epic]

Asmodean would have never turned, he was evil to the core.  Also, through tFoH, Rand kept on telling us that Asmodean was evil and to not forget it --> I think this was more Jordan reminding us that he was evil than Rand reminding himself.

[Eleint]

I don't know if I'd say 'evil to the core'.  He was one of the least malevolent Forsaken.  He turned because he wanted to pursue his art for eternity.  He definitely did really bad things, like when he maimed all those artists.  But I don't think I'd put him on the level of Semirhage or Graendal or such.  It's a matter of degrees, but nevertheless.

 

As for him converting?  I think it's possible, but he'd have to actually realize that what he did was wrong.  He seemed to be developing an okay loyalty to Rand due to necessity, but I don't think he was becoming 'good', he was still a selfish bastard.

[Builder]

Of all the Forsaken I like Asmo the most. He was just cool for some reason and I liked him for that, but if I was Rand I wouldn't have become too close friends with Asmo either ;)

[Thorum]

Just a small remembrance: "A Memory of Light". Could this mean anything else than some Forsaken turning to the good?

[MikeRiley]

It could mean a prolonged war with the Dark One on the winning side, people would have time to reflect on a more peaceful time. It could also mean the end of the Shadow in the world and a return to the peaceful times not seen since the Age of Legends.

 

The darkfriends don't have a reason to convert to the Light. They were promised immortality and the Dark One is going to win. Ingtar was moved by Rand's words and actions and remembered his way before becoming a darkfriend. I imagine that's a rare case and he'd have been visited by a myrdraal if he didn't die shortly after.

[Builder]

Also remember that Ingtar was probably under the Ta'Veren effect too.

[Orange Fescue]

Also remember that Ingtar was probably under the Ta'Veren effect too.

I tend to forget the ta'veren effect. At the same time, I don't think Ingtar coming back to the Light is too far-fetched.

 

Whereas most of the darkfriends we've seen seem to have sold their souls for money, power, immortality or whatever, Ingtar sold his so that his country would not disappear and his people would survive. Certainly, what he did was evil but he did it for a reason that, in a twisted way, was good. That is, he meant well (good intentions being the pavement on the road to Shayol Ghul). Literary groundwork was also laid for his redemption over the course of the trip from Fal Dara to Falme in his response to finding the two flayed guards, his response to the lives "lived" in the portal stone trip, and in his increasing desperation to find the Horn of Valere. My impression was that he was moving back to the Light and thought finding and blowing the horn would redeem him from his sins. I think he was redeemed without ta'veren interference but, either way, his return to the Light is one of the more inspiring scenes in the books for me.

 

Can the other darkfriends repent? Philosophically, I think anyone can reject evil and be or become good. As a practical matter, I can't see the remaining darkfriend characters coming back to the Light. There may be potential in the one darkfriend hidden in his clique who intends keeping him alive until it's time for him to die but I haven't noticed any foreshadowing of a repentance the way I did with Ingtar. Perhaps I'll see something when the current re-read gets to the last few books.

[adverge]

 

The catechism about people never being too far in the darkness to come back to the light (I can't remember the exact wording they use) makes me believe that at some point someone important is going to turn from the dark back to the light.  He uses that phrase a lot until book 7 or so.  I've not noticed it in 8 and 9 much in my re-read.  He uses a lot of foreshadowing though and it seems strange that only one person in the entire series would repent.  Also, it seems strange to me that absolutely no one goes to the dark.

 

I like the idea of Perrin turning to the dark, but I think the end of the series might be too late for that.  That's a massive plot point and he's already had 3-4 books to do it.

[Sab]

The BWB puts it best, a DF who turned to the light would still face justice for the actions they did as a DF.  So to most seems sort of pointless to change sides just to most likely face execution for what you have done.

[Builder]

I think Mat will turn to the Dark. He just seems like that type of guy for some reason.

[water_seeker]

I think Mat will turn to the Dark. He just seems like that type of guy for some reason.

 

???

 

I think no.  It would be more likely for Rand to go to the Dark before Mat.

[Builder]

But he's been acting non-seriously, and his personality fits for example a Forsaken.

[Eleint]

But he's been acting non-seriously, and his personality fits for example a Forsaken.

 

I may be reading a joke seriously, but I have to ask: huh?  How is his personality like a Forsaken's?  There's no cruelty, there's no lust for violence.  He doesn't even like battles anymore because men get killed and he really dislikes that, and only does it when he has to to help protect them or someone else.

 

Honestly, Mat's the most centered of the characters at this point.  Rand is half-insane due to the cleansing of Saidin (though that just sped up what was slowly happening before), Perrin is way obsessive about Faile to the point of scariness.  Mat ... does what he swore oaths to do and has a good heart, regardless.

 

How is he 'like the Forsaken'?

[Builder]

Hmmm, I stand corrected  :)