Dragon's Eggs' effectiveness during TG

[Majsju]

 

I believe they did, but the lighter guns were the key, and I believe they went for four horses for the speed.

 

In any case their effectiveness led to them being becoming something of an exclusive club for many years.

 

An alternative would be that four horses allowed them to use bigger guns than Sweden did, while keeping the same mobility.

Though, the Brits used this about 200 years later, so using the same size as Sweden would grant them a good deal more firepower.

 

 

[safwd]

I can see the eggs being very effective for awhile.

I agree that TG will not be one gigantic battle but more a series of smaller ones that all tie in so they can be effective on a battle field of normal size.

 

Plus they are a new weapon, there has been no planning on how to deal with them and that stuff doesnt happen instantly. Plus im sure that when they first start going off everyone is going to think it is the one power being used because what else would be blowing stuff up.

True once the channelers on the dark side figure out what it is they can counter it but they are also going to be busy dodging lighting bolts and what not, they may not feel to obligated to save a bunch of Trollics and Darkfiends from exploding balls.

[DemandredFO]

I hope they don't have that many cannons because that would be way to Deus Ex Machina.

[Bela]

Why does everyone assume that TG will be many small battles, it makes absolutely no sense. Literal translation:

 

last

1   /læst, lɑst/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [last, lahst] Show IPA

–adjective a superl. of late with later as compar.

1. occurring or coming after all others, as in time, order, or place: the last line on a page.

2. most recent; next before the present; latest: last week; last Friday.

3. being the only one remaining: my last dollar; the last outpost; a last chance.

4. final: in his last hours.

5. ultimate or conclusive; definitive: the last word in the argument.

 

 

battle

1   /ˈbætl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bat-l] Show IPA noun, verb, -tled, -tling.

–noun

1. a hostile encounter or engagement between opposing military forces: the battle of Waterloo.

2. participation in such hostile encounters or engagements: wounds received in battle.

3. a fight between two persons or animals: ordering a trial by battle to settle the dispute.

4. any conflict or struggle: a battle for control of the Senate.

5. Archaic. a battalion.

 

 

 

I agree, it is likely that the shadow will attack Randland, and many battles will ensue. However, to label them TG is a miscategorization. In my opinion, using the translation and the prophecies and all foreshadowing we have been given, TG will either be an epic battle between Rand and the Shadow (1vs1 whether it be the DO himself, Moridin, or some Champion, and epic battle between two immense armies, or one in the same (like Falme). 

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

An alternative would be that four horses allowed them to use bigger guns than Sweden did, while keeping the same mobility.

 

Though, the Brits used this about 200 years later, so using the same size as Sweden would grant them a good deal more firepower.

I had a think about this … worrying statement, I know.

 

I’d see them going for smaller guns as opposed to large ones for several reasons.

 

1.

The smaller the gun, the more manoeuvrable it is. Even if you attach 6 or so horses to a large gun, they’re still tougher to move than smaller ones. They’re heavy, they get stuck, etc.

 

2.

If we’re talking mobile guns, then the size of the ammunition and amount of gunpowder needed (specifically the weight) becomes an issue. Smaller guns with smaller balls mean less weight, or more ammunition for the same weight. Less weight means faster movement of both guns and ammunition.

 

3.

This is new technology. At the end of the day, I’d bet that they’d start small and build up to creating large guns. Small guns might be the only option they have.

 

Though the issue of ammunition effecting weight/manoeuvrability becomes moot if you team the use of guns with Gateways/Travelling. You could, I suppose, deliver the gun teams by the Power, and give them instructions to return to the location whereupon more ammunition and fresh horses are supplied from somewhere away from the battlefield.

 

Larger, static guns would of course be useful for defence of cities/castles etc.. But I don’t see them being used in a fluid battle.

I hope they don't have that many cannons because that would be way to Deus Ex Machina.

I don’t think they’ll have loads of them, I hope they don’t.

 

And in any case, we don’t know how effective they’ll be. After all, this is new technology. I’m looking forward to seeing the first cannons blow themselves to pieces.

 

As for Deus Ex Machina, cannons have been built up since very early on. We’ve been expecting them.

[Shard]

I think RAW the problem with the lack of merging Tech with Magic is the same as always in Fantasy. The Magic users looking down there noses at the Tech and the Tech having no clue how Magic works. As for the specific groups you have the Aes Sedai all wound up in their own Oaths and far to busy to even consider medling there channeling with the up and coming techology. In fact I doubt any or at least many even know about the school's Rand has been working on.

 

As for the Asha'Man if any of them do know about the schools I doubt they care enough to apply that knowledge most of them probably still think using swords is pointless much like Taim does. I think it's going to take someone like Mat to get these two things together.

 

I suspect that Mat may want to get alot of cannon out, how many depends on all the design plans we just don't know about. I realize also there are nothing like factories around but we do have plenty of Blacksmiths. I've seen it put out that many believe TG is begining in about a months time in the books.

 

As for Dues Ex Machina yeah we've known since aCoS first came out that Gunpowder was coming back and Mat was going to be responsible for it.

[Builder]

Yeah no matter what idea's Mat comes up with were not getting Gattling guns in WoT.

 

Shame on you! Gatling guns do not have anything with artillery at all! They were developed from guns. Artillery can't fire as near as fast as Gatling guns, but fire faster than normal cannons.

[luftstark]

Why does everyone assume that TG will be many small battles, it makes absolutely no sense. Literal translation:

 

[...]

 

 

I agree, it is likely that the shadow will attack Randland, and many battles will ensue. However, to label them TG is a miscategorization. In my opinion, using the translation and the prophecies and all foreshadowing we have been given, TG will either be an epic battle between Rand and the Shadow (1vs1 whether it be the DO himself, Moridin, or some Champion, and epic battle between two immense armies, or one in the same (like Falme). 

 

I think that The Last Battle reffers to Rand struggle agains the Shadow (or it's champion, which is more likely). But that's not all. There will be at least 4 fronts of battle.

 

I can see something like the following:

 

Tarwin's Gap (Malkier's + Borderlanders + Aes Sedai +  Nynaeve + Ewgene, vs Trollocs,Fades, Drhakars (?), Black Ajah + Mesaana  + Ara'gar)

 

Arad Doman (Logan + Asha'man + Aiel + Wise Ones + Aviendha + Legion of the Dragon +  vs Taim + "Dark Asha'man" + Trollocs + Fades + Graendal + Moghedien)

 

Amadicia/Altara (Perrin (Ghealdins + Mayeners + Two River) + Mat (Band of the Red Hand + Dragons) Elayne (Andorans + Kin + Windfinders) + Seachan + Damane vs Trollocs + Fades + Darkhounds + Dhrakhar + Cyndane + Damodred + "Dark Asha'man")

 

Shayol Ghul (Rand + Cadsuane + Alivia vs Moradin + (Maybe) Semirhage)

 

I don't know.. maybe... feel free to sugest anything different!! ^^

[Shard]

I've also been wondering something else with the fact that half the Borderland army is away from the border trying to meet Rand. The remaining half seem foreshadowed to follow Lan to Tarwin Gap. What if the Trolloc Army doesn't use the Gap?

[Shard]

I've just been wondering is all since the Borderlands is going to be pretty empty soon, it just seems a great way to outflank the Light forces somehow. Are we even sure all Waygates are closed now?

[Peat]

 

3.

This is new technology. At the end of the day, I’d bet that they’d start small and build up to creating large guns. Small guns might be the only option they have.

 

Its been a while since I studied the use of early artillery but they seemed to have little difficulty in creating large guns and preferred them to smaller. Of course, these were being designed more for siege warfare at first more than battlefield use... but thats by the by, the technology is there.

[Peat]

Very true, particularly as Indirect Fire Weapons would be easier to hide from channelers than Direct Fire.

[Dark Justice]

The very earliest artillery pieces that we would recognize as artillery were relatively small and made of a variant of bronze called bell metal (In Need of a Bellfounder, anyone?)

 

This is one of the reasons I really love WoT. RJs knowledge of weapons. He REALLY knows what he is talking about, aswell as throwing those little references out there. (Bellfounder...)

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Shame on you! Gatling guns do not have anything with artillery at all! They were developed from guns. Artillery can't fire as near as fast as Gatling guns, but fire faster than normal cannons.

Shame on you!  :P

 

A "gun" is an artillery piece, not something you hold in your hand.

 

Remember the famous line:

"This is my rifle, this is my gun"?

 

And, technically, any large, moveable projectile weapon is "artillery", i.e. a catapult, or trebechet.

 

And here ends today's lesson.  :P

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

The very earliest artillery pieces that we would recognize as artillery were relatively small and made of a variant of bronze called bell metal (In Need of a Bellfounder, anyone?)

Interesting...

 

And of course then there's the need to be able to cast the barrel of the gun in one piece (or as few as possible as one piece would be pretty tough to do in WoT)... a bell founder is the only person who'd have experience with large pieces of shaped metal and the joining of two pieces.

 

... Though having typed that... there's nothing to stop you mass producing barrels with the Power....

 

There's a thought.

[Builder]

Shame on you! Gatling guns do not have anything with artillery at all! They were developed from guns. Artillery can't fire as near as fast as Gatling guns, but fire faster than normal cannons.

Shame on you!  :P

 

A "gun" is an artillery piece, not something you hold in your hand.

 

Remember the famous line:

"This is my rifle, this is my gun"?

 

And, technically, any large, moveable projectile weapon is "artillery", i.e. a catapult, or trebechet.

 

And here ends today's lesson.  :P

 

Links please. I can never be sure if you're just BSing here ;)

[Builder]

Ok, this might sound very far fetched but could the Asha'man make weaves that "detonate" upon impact. They would be inside these Eggs. This is wild speculation, and as I'm writing it does really sound fantastic.

[Builder]

Oh yeah. However it would be something to think of because the Seanchan make fireworks with the help of Sul'dam and the power.

[luftstark]

Actually Sky lights (the weave that damane learns) does not involve fireworks or gunpowder. It's a direct weave at the sky, not a way to create fireworks.

 

As said in KoD:

"[alundra's nightflowers] could not compare with Sky Lights performed by even a half-trained damane"

 

^^

[Builder]

No but the effect is similar. Maybe those weaves could be used as flash-bang 'nades?

 

Also sorry for the mix up it's Damane not Sul'dam  :D

[Shard]

Don't the Asha'man already blow people up? Isn't that what happened at Dumai Well's?

[Builder]

Yeah, but we're talking about Eggs man. I just thought flash 'nades would be awesome because they could blind the enemy long enough to give you the advantage if you don't have the element of surprise.

[Builder]

Not to be rude, but have you ever played a strategy game or ever thought about strategy in general? I have, and I can tell you that every second is vital if you're gonna win. Blinding the enemy before you attack can make your odds much higher especially if you're outnumbered ;)

 

Also, it's important to know what situation you would use the flash-bangs.

[Builder]

I don't know. Maybe you throw in some grenades first blind the enemy so they're all like wtf is going on and then you go up from your hiding place and start firing. It's great when you're pinned down, or otherwise outnumbered ;)

 

And no, it wasn't a personal attack...

[Builder]

What happens if you're really pinned down, and have no way out. You can either just get out of the hiding place and hope for the best, or minimize risks of someone getting killed. Assuming what kind of armament your soldiers have. A mix between swords and cross bows would be the best, but we must assume that we don't have much time and you only got one Damane that can't do anything, but because it's a Damane they would most likely use her to kill the trollocs.

 

I think that it would be useful if you were to capture and not kill enemy troops. Maybe there is a important enemy soldier or something that you want to extract info from. I dunno, but flash or concussion grenades would be very useful in those situations.