Memory of Light - The Plot

[Luckers]

The other day i sort of sat down and thought about how i would write Memory of Light given the current status of the series and RJ's insistence that there will be only one more book. Because i was extremely bored at the time, i hashed out a plotline that i would use to achieve all of RJ's goals. To achieve this the story needs to be devided into three parts.

 

Part One - Pre Tarmon Gai'don

 

Lan - First and foremost in the book, i think RJ will have to begin the Trolloc assault on the Light. He needs to up the game for the last book, so im guessing that this will take place in the Prologue. Lan will not be able to defeat the mighty hoard, but he will slow it dramatically, and inflict great losses... the why of this will be later. (also i suspect another trolloc attack will hit Saldaea, and be caught by Rhuarc and Inturalde)

 

Rand - Primarily in this part Rand and his merry bunch (Cads, Ny, etc) will be hashing out the Alliance with the Seanchan. For the sake of entertainment there will be a confrontation between himself and Tuon with neither winning, but Rand coming out slightly on top. Perrin will become involved i suspect, towards the end, really only to facilitate his rejoining with Rand, and because of his relationship with the Seanchan. I suspect also something will happen between Cadsuane and Tuon relating to Tuon's ability to Channel. RJ would never miss a chance for Cadsuane to snub someone.

 

Egwene - She'll have a small chapter, most likely the dinner thing with Elaida early on, in which you see Elaida truely lose it. Later, but still early in the book, the Seanchan will attack. Elaida will hesitate (perhaps from being drunk) and Egwene will step in, pulling the rebels back into the city to fight the Seanchan (who will also be in the city) She'll fight back from the brink of loss to a standstill, and at this stage all the Aes Sedai will be following her commands. Elaida will not be under arrest yet. Also the Asha'men bonded to the rebels will save the rebels from being destroyed straight out.

 

Mat - The obvious play. In the prologue he will decide to go after Moiraine. This will actually occur between the First Part and the Second Part of the book, for Moiraine's big arival toward the end of the second.

 

The Black Ajah Hunters - I'm guessing things will start to come to a head with this lot. They'll discover who Alviarin is, and she in turn will discover then, and even kill some of them (Seane...) Also the men that Pevara bonded may play some part here... i don't know if it'll be good or bad, thats really RJ's thing.

 

The Insignificants - In this part of the book there will be several smaller bits im guessing. Elayne taking command of the Armies of Andor. Cads questioning Semirhage. Something to do with Perrin. Maybe also a little bone for Aviendha since she's been a bit of a non-entity recently.

 

Part Two - The Dark Strikes Back

 

Egwene & Lan - Despite Lan's formidable efforts, the Trolloc encursion reaches the city. But thats ok, because Lan ran into Gawyn on the way into the city. Together they find and save Egwene from a fight she was losing to the Seanchan (she was surrounded by Damane or some such, and Gawyn and Lan had the Damane shot. Egwene will muster what forces she has, and Tar Valon will come under siege from the Trollocs. At this stage the Seanchan will not engage the Trollocs... they will semi-hesitate in surprise, but then choose to defend themselves rather then aid the marath'damane.

 

The Black Ajah Hunters - The ongoing battle between Alviarin and Pevara will lead to the foiling of a Black Ajah plan that coincides with the arival of the Trollocs. Rather then destroy the Aes Sedai, the BA simply reveals itself, does some damage, and is forced to flee. They stay within the city though, turning it into something of a four way war. My guess is Mesanna will be involved in this whole thing also, and it will be revealed who she was (although this will probably take place in Part One)

 

Mat - The rescue of Moiraine will come to a head here.

 

Taim - I'm guessing he'll act at this point also, though im not sure if he'll be forced to it or not. Logain will be involved and the whole 'rent in blood and fire' stuff will happen.

 

Elayne - The question that remains is will Elayne involve herself, or will she be on her was to Tar Valon to offer aid to Egwene? - Keep in mind that aside from the 100,000+ Army that she has, she also has something in excess of 300 channelers, and theres the chance that the Borderlanders joined her ranks when things got messy. I always felt Elayne would become a central figure... why else would RJ spend so much time on her taking the throne. So does she fight Taim, or does she run to TV (my guess is the second)

 

Tuon - Whether she is convinced, or is forced to, Tuon will act here to stop her forces attacking Tar Valon. Rand will send an Asha'man to help her travel, and they will arrive to see the Trolloc attack under way. Tuon will gather her forces and lead them into the fray to aid Egwene (or rather, to simply fight) She and Egwene will meet and have one of those exchanges of respect despite being enemies thing, and will fight together. (note: fulfils Egwenes dream)

 

Rand - So what about Rand. I don't think RJ would dare leave the main character out of much of the last book, but everything seems to be handling itself. The wording of Min's glory fortelling as well as several other clues seem to indicate that Logain handles Taim himself.- That leaves Tar Valon. And there is some evidence of this. For starters Rand has to know an Amyrlin's anger. My guess is the anger will be because of his truce with the Seanchan. Aditionally it makes a lot of sense thematically to have Rand and his party enter Tar Valon before things trully go to hell. One) Rand in Tar Valon is something that has been waiting to happen the entire series. Two) Am I the only one looking forward to a meeting between Egwene and Cadsuane? Three) Nynaeve, Lan and Myrelle all in one place for the bond transfer. There are a whole lot more, but im sure you get the point.

 

Moiraine - Will walk into the aftermath of all these meetings for big entrance points. She'll give Lan permission to bond Ny (which will piss ny off, though in truth she can't be angry because she's just so happy) Forgive Rand and then do a little dance. Really. Also, at some stage i suspect that she will have to be healed so that she can channel again. Hopefull by a man so she's all badass again, but maybe by Ny, For the obvious thematic reasons and so that she's closer to being equal to Thom...

 

The Insignificants - Doubtlessly there will be an update on the Rhuarc/Interulde front. Maybe a few bits on Darkfriend uprisings.

 

Part Three - Tarmon Gai'don

 

It's a bit hard to predict this bit, because we have very little information on the actual occurence on Tarmon Gai'don, but i will try.

 

The Armies - Currently (and i mean in KOD) the forces are set so that a majority of the Aiel and Randland forces (Carhienin, Tairen, Illianer etc) will be in the north in Arad Domen. Inturalde and Rhuarc will be in control of them, with Dobraine involved but acceding to their knowledge. Additionally most of the Aiel Wise Ones, and Asha'men are there also, creating quite a formidable force. My guess is that they will use speed, and slash and dash tactics of the Aiel, using the mountains of mist and other such things as a way of controlling the actual direction of the Trolloc incursion.

 

Meanwhile, the Aes Sedai, and their collective army of roughly around 80,000, as well as an additional 3 or 4,000 Seanchan (a combination of the original Seanchan assault army and whatever Tuon bought... note: Tuon may have brought more significant forces, and i may be underestimating the numbers that to'raken can transport. The Seanchan force could equal as much as 20,000. Another point may be that my assumption that Tuon and Rand didn't know of the attack on Tar Valon may be false also, remember that Rand has another very considerable army in Tear. But it is my thought that that is not the case... Why? I think Logain will lead that army north to Tar Valon later.

 

And finally we have Elayne leading between 100,000 and 200,000 and 300 channelers north. Other armies to be concidered include that the Seanchan have around 150,000 men in Arad Domen, sandwiched between two of Interulde's armies, and doubtlessly there are more elsewhere. Also, i think the Sea Folk should involve themselves more directly. But thats just my thought.

 

Now, the Seanchan are about the only force that can go toe to toe with a Trolloc horde and walk away from it, the other armies are more likely to play slap and dash and other such tactics. This leads me to believe that combined with the defensibility of Tar Valon, the inability of Trollocs to travel and the aid of the Asha'men, and the angreal and sa'angreal in TV that the Trollocs will be routed.

 

Egwene- Will be acknowledged Amyrlin, and we will see the two halls fit in together because of the Too Young Sitter Conspiracy that Suine discovered (i.e. that the Ajah Heads conspired to place young aes sedai as sitters so that they could be easily relieved and the proper sitters in the two halls could fit in smoothly to the new single hall. (Elaida will also face Egwene and Rand here)

 

Logain - Will arrive with Rands armies from Tear and the news of Taims defection (Taim and most of his cronies will have survived the battle at the Black Tower, as will have most of the Black Ajah after their failed uprising. Say hello to our new Dreadlords. Additionally i suspect there will be others... Aiel Wise Ones and Windfinders perhaps, but also randoms who were taught to channel by the dark... maybe forced into links or something like that. Does anyone know where the dreadlords in the Trolloc Wars came from?)

 

Here will come the first proactive assault on the forces of the Dark One.

 

Now here things grow even hazier... I will only put down some ideas of stuff that might happen.

 

1. Rands fake death or whatever. My guess is that the thing about Rand joining an image, and one dying and one living actually had to do with Moridin, not LTT. I think that their sudo-psychic connection will be used for a body swap, and that Alivia will either facilitate that, or kill Moridin once he's in Rands body. Why do i think this? Well mostly from all the 'rand being dead, only then fading to dust because is wasn't him' stuff, and the 'to live you must die' and the fact that by the end of this his body is going to be rather... ill-used. It just works for me.

 

2.Perrin will kill Shadar Haren. Wolf King v. Myrrdraal King style.

 

3. One of the Forsaken will survive TV, as a prisoner...?

 

And then there are questions i can't answer... like what is Verin up to? When will Nynaeve rip that damn braid right off her head? Will people ever stop discussing Bela?

 

Meh. Still... thats how i think the book will go.[/b]

[Lanthirrhos]

maybe...

[Bob T Dwarf]

Not bad. There's a few things you might have left out.

 

What part do Mat, the Horn, and the Heroes of the Horn play?

 

What part does Mat's status as the Consort of the Empress play?

 

How does Rand break the last seals, contain the DO, and reseal the bore?

 

How much of the battle occurs at Shayul Ghul?

 

Since the series opens with a death that creates Dragonmount, does it end with a death that destroys Dragonmount? Or maybe a birth that destroys Dragonmount?

 

What part do the Ogier play?

 

What about the mysterious missing Song?

[arogan]

hey i like your thoughts

[Lanthirrhos]

Yeah you did leave things out but cut 'im some slack Bob it wasn't bad...

[Kadere]

Overall I agree with the movements of your characters, but it's true that you left a lot of little details out (Padan Fain's return, Rand going blind, Mat dealing with one eye, Perrin getting it on with Faile, etc). The only other thing is that you have to get them to Shayol Ghul so that Rand's blood can fall on the rocks there. And of course Rand's AWESOME fight with Moridin. But yeah, besides a few small details I like the way your version goes. Good job. :D

[Lanthirrhos]

agreed! :D

[Luckers]

Most of the stuff 'i left out' i said i was going to leave out. The ending of the series is, i suspect, not going to be what we expect. Specifically i didn't mention anything about the final battles, including the role of the horn, the sealing of the bore/defeat of the dark one etc.

 

That being said, i will give my opinion on the things you've asked. Bob first - The Horn. keep in mind that Mat will likely acompany Moiraine to meet with Rand, who i believe will be in the tower, where both the horn of valere and Tuon are, which is the answer to the consort question... sure the seanchan will act odd around him, and there will be some raised eyebrows, but largely it will be glossed over, by which i mean there wont be any elaborate ceremonies, or chapters showing just what its like to be consort, like rJ might have in earlier books. He just doesn't have the time.

 

The bore, the seals and the DO - No saying. i don't see it being something obvious like a simple resealing of the bore or anything... in point of fact i rather suspect that Min and Fel's books will pay a key part in figuring out what to do next, RJ has been building that for a while... what that might be though.

 

The Battle at Shayol Ghoul. I ended the battles with the win at Tar Valon for a reason, that being its hard to say without knowing the disposition of enemy channelers. As it is the Light has almost 15,000 channelers including Sea Folk, Wise Ones (worked out by timising the amount of Shaido Wise Ones by the amount of Clans) Aes Sedai and novices, Asha'men and damane (including captured Shaido Wise Ones), the kin - not including Ayyad, Land of the Madmenian or sul'dam.

 

Whilst to our best knowledge the Shadow has maybe a hundred Asha'men under Taim, and 17 Aes Sedai that we know of(not including the dead) most of which have been captured, which is how we know of them, but judging from their set up and various other hints id place their numbers at between two and three hundred. We know that very few sul'dam are darkfriends from Suroth, so the seanchan channeling force, plus any thoughts about forced channeling aid (other then Forced Conversion) arn't really feasible. Also none of the kin are darkfriends. We have no word on Windfinder or Wise One Darkfriend numbers, but given that its around ten to twenty percent in other organisations, lets say twenty each. I estimate given ship disposition and rough numbers of ships (there are about a hundred and fifty to two hundred sea folk pership, roughly 700 ships per harbour, maybe 3000 ships altogether. Thats me being really generous, so lets say 3500 channelers including apprentices and the inevitable windfinder without a ship. at 20% which seems unlikely given sea folk lifestyles (which would be hard on conversion to the shadow because of close living conditions etc) is 600 d/f. the aiel who i put at around 6500 channelers, would have around 1200 d/f... again i find that unlikely given aiel attitude to shadowrunners, but lets be kind. With all that the shadow has around 2200 channelers, and adjusting the lights number appropriately thats 2200 to fight 12800. Thats ignoring the fact that chances are the Sea Folk channelers wont involve themselves one way or another.

 

Then we look at trolloc forces, doubtlessly they outnumber the light, and there is the fact that being larger that will give them an advantage. Remember though that the light has cavalry, grolm etc. which in tunr negates some of that. shadowspawn can't travel, which sends the advantage back to the light for mobility, but the light has traitors in its midst in the for of darkfriends, ones that will do a great deal of damage before all is said and done, and they WILL be able to travel. The dark channelers will doubtlessly also have some knowledge the light doesn't. bits that asmo and moggy never turned over, and there is the blight to be concidered. However wild they may be, the creatures of the blight are aginors constructs, and are under the power of the Dark One. Then we must remember the wolves as a force, but also the lesser shadowspawn like the draghkar and the darkhounds. Finally the light has sole control over angreal and sa'angreal stores, including callandor and the male cheodan kal.

 

From this i would say that i would focus first on routing the trolloc incursion, though the battles would need to continue to maintain the momentum when rand goes north. im guessing that the fighting will still be going when rand defeats the dark one. Even unto the end of the book. RJ has said he's not going to rap everything up neatly, and that makes sense to me. i suspect it will be obvious that victory is inevitable though. As for the battle at shayol ghoul. it will be inside the mountain itself as well as out. here moridin will fall to alivia, here shadar haren will fall to perrin, etc.

 

The dragonmount question is really a matter of authorial interest. I personally think the symbolism of it is rather boring and cliche, so i wouldn't do anything like having it die with rand or anything... though i suspect it may erupt as another sign of the coming last battle... the signs are there in the acrid smell that the Aes Sedai notice...

 

The Ogier will be there. Its obvious. The book of translations thing to me is nothing but an obstacle for the ogier, to rouse them. personally i think it would be kinda quirky if they did up and leave without doing anything to help, but i dont see it happening... the other cool idea is if massive amounts of them died, and leaving had been the right idea.

 

The Song is a mythological memory of the song of growing, the aiel part of a process done in cohesion with the ogier and the nym in the age of legends that aids in the growing of plants, though it also ties in ideologically with the aiel way of life back then, which was full of song. My suspicion is that it first appeared in the aftermath opf the war that ended the first age, a war the hurt the planet dramatically, and was Channelers fault. So the channelers swore themselves servents to all, and the aiel who were, i suspect, the channelers army, swore themselves to peace in battle. The new Aes sedai set out to heal the damaged earth, in the processing contacting another world were creatures lived that had an affinity with growing things. The Voice (the capitilized talent of song, that seemed to have some paranormal power, as mentioned by LTT in the prolgues) was an attempt to make the ogier ability live in humans, first starting with the aiel, and then progressing to the creation of living ter'angreal... living houses for the ability in the nym. In any case the Song is, i suspect, gone for good. We certainly arn't going to see it before the end of the books.

 

Kadere - Padan Fain has always been unpredictable... thats the essense of his character, chaos and as a symbol that there are never just two sides in a fight. i could say what i would do with him, but his potential is virtually limitless. I will say though, that i dont think he will die. Rand going blind already seems in the works, so i didn't really have much to add. My guess is that it wont be total blindness, but rather light sensitivity, which is why he had the cloth wrapped around his eyes in mins vision... its all a part of what i was talking about with rands body being in ruins by the end, and is part of why i think the body swap will occur. Mat dealing with one eye is again obvious. I suspect he will lose it in Finnland, and other then that it has no real impact, for the saving of the world part of it, i suspect, deals primarily with bringing moiraine back into play.

 

I left the rest out because they are little details. i wasn't trying to write the book here, just show the general of how i would play it out to see if it could be packaged up in a way that would allow it to be satisfactorily done in one book. Also, part of it is that i think a lot of the little stuff will be looked over, but meh.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Gettin' better. I'd read your version.

 

Singing and the Lost Song have been an itch I haven't been able to scratch since the beginning. Even if it's all pretty mundane, I've just got to find out what that's all about before this is over.

[Siswaiaman]

whoa wait.

what put Taim on the side of the shadow?

ok stupid question.

What put the black tower on the side of the shadow?!? In other words, why can't Rand retake the Black Tower? The Asha'man are not evil at all, where'd that come from?

[JakeBarnes]

Really great Luckers. I got really excited while I was reading it. Now I;m even more excited about the final book.

[Anajon]

Sounds - good but I definitely want a chapter on Perrin - Galad (white cloaks) Morgase - Rand - Galad maybe with Elayne thrown in.

 

And what about the broken crown - some how Faile is going to become queen of Saldea, so the current queen will have to die.

[Luckers]

Siswai'aman - I didn't say that the Black Tower would serve the shadow, just that Taim has a hundred or so darkfriend Asha'men at the tower at the moment (which we know both from Logains account of Taims students, and pevara's look at them), with the majority of asha'men not loyal to him being with either the armies in tear or those in arad domon. Logain will be the one to drive taim out of the black tower, but it will take effort because he is well ensconced.

[dr phil]

A nice job there but u have missed a fair amount of stuff like.

 

Paidian Fain and where hes been the last few books and such

 

The ogier and the book of translation and how the ogier will be involved in the song with the tinkers

 

Rand and his metting with his father

 

Elyane and how shes pregnent and where she will give birth

 

Rands two wounds which are so bad that hes sick when he channels and how this is effecting him

 

Lews voice in his head and how rand is insanse

 

And many more. but i like your ideas thought most of them i thought would happen as well. but i disagree with u with TG. i think it will be a few chapters long cause so much will happen. ie rand breaking the seals , DO being free, the horn being blown. and many more i think it will be at least 100 - 200 pages long

[Luckers]

Actually i addressed all of those except rand meeting his father and elaynes pregnancy, and those two i didn't address because i dont think they'll be big... i rather doubt elayne will give birth before the end of the books, and rand and his da are both fairly realistic about human connection in rands position. it'll be pretty minor.

 

Additionally i never said TG would be less then two chapters long, in fact i said tg would take place over then entire book, starting with an attack at tarmons gap on lans forces in the prologue. i dont think, however, it'll get into true force until after the first third of the book. thats still two thirds dedicated to TG. Please read before you criticize.

[Barnabas]

nice theories, i like em. funny how people complain bout what u miss but dont put own possibilties up. i especially like your mention of the two halls joining, the "pattern" behind young sitters has puzzled me since first reading, and gotten more annoying each time cos i couldnt pick why it had happened, and i must say i think so the two halls can rejoin due to seniority of other sitters is quite plausible. good post/theories

[ajc42]

Nice idea. It's never possible to cover everything the RJ is going to tie up in the last book (even if he does leave a few loose ends flapping around - more realistic), but here are a few more points for pondering...

 

1. The young sitters - I got the idea that the young sitters in both halls had been raised to be under the thumb, not of the older sitters, but of the Black sitters, this works to the same purpose (allowing the two halls to integrate without two much fuss) but will provide a lot more interest.

 

2. Aran'gar - We know Mrs Balthemal has a plan for Rand's death from KOD, but when it's going to play out is another question. There's also the reference in the prophecy at the start of COT saying "And it shall come to pass in the time when the Dark Hunt rides, when the left hand falters and the right hand strays..." The left hand faltering is Aginor/Osan'gar's death at Elza's hands, but as yet there is no real explanation for the right hand (Aran'gar) straying. Could we have another turncoat forsaken or is that just a reference to Aran'gar's plans for Rand? Either way it will likely be a major moment which could possibly, and finally, let the light know which foresaken are still active.

 

3. Sammael - he's still alive for a reason. But why? (I know there's proably no way to answer this, but I thought I'd mention it anyway)

 

4. The Finn - You covered the rescue of Moiraine, but I think there's more to be considered with the event. We know the Finn deny any access to people bringing iron and fire, seems sensible you may think, but the Musical Instrument ban seems a direct reference to Thom and would mean that, not only do the Finn know Mat, Thom and (probably) Noal are on their way, but that they have always known. (The device for making fire is probably a match/firework)

 

5. Rand's blindness - I've never been convinced that this is actually going to happen. Despite the foggyness in his eyes after the attack by Semirhage in KOD, but I always took the blindfold in the visions to be a metaphor for Rand being unable to see what was going on around him (Taim/Demandred etc...)

 

6. How are the Seanchan going to get to Tar Valon? - Not a clue on this one, but I thought it might be worth posting to insight discussion.

 

7. Nyneave/Moghedion Showdown - looking forward to this one. But when/where/how/who?

 

8. Aviendha/Cyndane(Lanfear) showdown - the most likely to end up facing Lews Therin's former lover, could be Elayne or even Min (cant see how she's going to come out of that one though), perhaps it'll even be all three...

 

9. Forced to the dark - RJ let us know very early on in the story that people can be forced to go over to the dark, through the use of 13 dark channelers and the same number of Fades, and I'd like to see it happen at some point. The most likely candidates are Elayne or Aviendha. Either of which would tip Rand over the edge, but might also help Cadsuane finally teach Rand to treasure the humanity within him rather than forcing it down. If it were Elayne this would also send Andor and Carhien to Hell along with her (until Dyelin and Dobraine take the reigns, part of me almost thinks they're in the story for this very purpose).

 

10. Who killed Asmondean? - Not even sure if RJ hasn't decided he's given us enough to work this out already, but it might be nice if someone told Rand and co. that the guy's dead, just so they know. It could be any of the forsaken (since Asm was shocked to see them and instantly knew he was shafted), but if it was then it cant have used the power, otherwise Rand/Aviendha would have sensed it. Could have been Fain (but why? - Asm making Rand more powerful and so harder to kill?)

 

11. Shadar Haran - I've got to say I don't think Perrin's going to be the one to kill him. It could happen, but I'd say it would be more likely for Rand to do the deed. From Alviarin's encounter with the Superfade in COT it seems like RJ is building Haran up to be the Dark One himself, at present just a vessel for him to act through, but once the seals are out the way Haran might just become the Great Lord of the Dark himself. If not, I wouldn't mind seeing Perrin take him on, it certainly fits with the whole Wolves-hate-Fades subplot.

 

12. Ogier - Seems fairly obvious, Loial will convince the gardeners to gather arms and lead them to battle, but not before more Trollocs attack Shang'tai during or shortly after the stump and insight the Ogier to close all the waygates before the last battle.

 

13. Galad - The new Lord Captain Commander has got to put in an appearance at some point and learn that morgase is still alive (along with everyone else). He also might like to know that Rand is his half-brother as well.

 

14. Sulin - Have yet to see anything posted about this anywhere, but I'm fairly certain Sulin is Rand's blood sister. In LOC after Rand is taken by Galina et al, Sulin refers to Rand as her First-Brother, and yet we know from Elayne/Aviendha that unless the ritual is performed then two people are not first-brothers/sisters unless they share the same parents. Even though we know the maidens think of Rand as the only child of a maiden to have returned it seems unlikely that any of them would actually refer to Rand as a direct relative, unless it was true, without gaining toh. Just wondering if I've got the wrong end of the stick completely here or if there could be more to come on this...

 

15. Luc/Isam/Slayer - Rand's uncle hasn't featured much so far, but we know he's going to do more. The question is when and what? It seems unlikely Gitara would have sent Luc to the Blight unless she thought it would help the future, but how?

 

16. Padan Fain - A very good character and someone who hasn't been seen for a while. But when is he going to make his last attack on Rand? Part of me thinks Fain might turn out to be the Gollum character of the series (him or Luc), not switching sides, but attacking the shadow of his own volition at a crutial moment and inadvertantly helping Rand. He'll probably end up dead, but after that will one of the wounds in Rand's side be able to be healed? Will the dagger get destroyed?

 

17. Ta'veren - Perrin and Mat are ta'veren for a reason, moreso than just to fight at the last battle. I think they have to be with Rand at Shayol Ghul, but the 'why' eludes me.

 

18. The rest of the foresaken - Demandred/Logain seems probable and semhirage may well die in captivity. Mesaana has to surface at some point, probably during the routing of the black ajah. Morodin is almost definitely going to have to fight Rand at the end... but what about Graendal? Is she going to 'falter' along with Aran'gar?

 

19. The song - at some point Rand will probably decide to tell the tinkers that he knows the song (he heard it in Rhuidean). What the outcome of this will be si unknown, but we do know the tinkers are already gathering in Altara.

 

20. Masema - Got to get killed along with the remnants of his scavengers. Probably by Rand after him and Perrin meet up, but possibly by Perrin after what happened with Aram.

 

21. Moiraine - She's back, but why? There must be more than to give Lan and Nyneave her blessing, what's her real roll in all this?

 

22. Verin - is she black, is she just planning things very intricately, no, she's black. Verin seems to fit neatly into the 'we must help Rand... so he can die when he should' crowd along with Elza and any other Randsworn blacks. But when is this going to come to the fore? What did she do in Far Madding years ago so she couldn't use her real name? And what has she been planning all this time?

 

23. Liandrin / Sulroth - will most likely be taken out of seanchan occupied lands so serve the dark a mite longer. Could also be accompanied by Galina, if so this will probably happen in the prologue.

 

24. Morodin / Lews Therin - Could this be how Morodin and Lews end up? Both caught in Rand's body and fighting over who survives until Alivia kills them both...?

 

25. Lan - I don't think Lan and his Malkieri army are going to reach Tarwin's gap anytime soon. but they will be a force to be reckoned with when they do.

[Guest Majsju]

<2. Aran'gar - We know Mrs Balthemal has a plan for Rand's death from KOD, but when it's going to play out is another question. There's also the reference in the prophecy at the start of COT saying "And it shall come to pass in the time when the Dark Hunt rides, when the left hand falters and the right hand strays..." The left hand faltering is Aginor/Osan'gar's death at Elza's hands, but as yet there is no real explanation for the right hand (Aran'gar) straying. Could we have another turncoat forsaken or is that just a reference to Aran'gar's plans for Rand? Either way it will likely be a major moment which could possibly, and finally, let the light know which foresaken are still active.>

 

First, when Aran'gar was thinking about her eventual plan for Rand, she was still in Salidar, still able to manipulate events there. Now she will have to figure out what to do next. She has screwed up badly, being forced to run away, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that next time we see Moridin he'll have a third mind trap around his neck.

 

Second, the prophecy about the left and right hand most likely refers to Mat and Perrin.

 

<3. Sammael - he's still alive for a reason. But why? (I know there's proably no way to answer this, but I thought I'd mention it anyway)>

 

Or someone is posing as him, to avoid getting caught with the hand in the cookie-jar. It seems a bit unlikely that the DO would bring back Sammael without telling the Nae'blis, especially now, when he seems to have been ordered to take more control of the forsaken.

 

<4. The Finn - You covered the rescue of Moiraine, but I think there's more to be considered with the event. We know the Finn deny any access to people bringing iron and fire, seems sensible you may think, but the Musical Instrument ban seems a direct reference to Thom and would mean that, not only do the Finn know Mat, Thom and (probably) Noal are on their way, but that they have always known. (The device for making fire is probably a match/firework)>

 

The things forbidden in finnland are taken directly from the Irish faeries, who are a main source of inspiration for the finns. Music is forbidden because they are vulnerable to it. Of course, RJ might put his on little twist on it, and not flat out copy the faeries, but it seems likely he'll stick very close to it.

 

<5. Rand's blindness - I've never been convinced that this is actually going to happen. Despite the foggyness in his eyes after the attack by Semirhage in KOD, but I always took the blindfold in the visions to be a metaphor for Rand being unable to see what was going on around him (Taim/Demandred etc...)>

 

I don't believe in blindness either. Rand describes being sensitive to light in KOD, the blindfold might just be an early version of a pair of Ray Bans...

 

<7. Nyneave/Moghedion Showdown - looking forward to this one. But when/where/how/who?>

 

Or maybe not at all. Just because they've been set up against eachother doesn't mean that anyone else is forbidden to take them on.

 

<8. Aviendha/Cyndane(Lanfear) showdown - the most likely to end up facing Lews Therin's former lover, could be Elayne or even Min (cant see how she's going to come out of that one though), perhaps it'll even be all three...>

 

Same thing here, setting up duels between certain characters is just...Bleh.

 

<9. Forced to the dark - RJ let us know very early on in the story that people can be forced to go over to the dark, through the use of 13 dark channelers and the same number of Fades, and I'd like to see it happen at some point. The most likely candidates are Elayne or Aviendha. Either of which would tip Rand over the edge, but might also help Cadsuane finally teach Rand to treasure the humanity within him rather than forcing it down. If it were Elayne this would also send Andor and Carhien to Hell along with her (until Dyelin and Dobraine take the reigns, part of me almost thinks they're in the story for this very purpose).>

 

Or has it already happened?

I doubt any of the main characters would be the victim of this, RJ has said that all of the main players will be there for TG, so adding a new plot like this would only serve to further lengthen an already very long book, without any real purpose.

 

<11. Shadar Haran - I've got to say I don't think Perrin's going to be the one to kill him. It could happen, but I'd say it would be more likely for Rand to do the deed. From Alviarin's encounter with the Superfade in COT it seems like RJ is building Haran up to be the Dark One himself, at present just a vessel for him to act through, but once the seals are out the way Haran might just become the Great Lord of the Dark himself. If not, I wouldn't mind seeing Perrin take him on, it certainly fits with the whole Wolves-hate-Fades subplot.>

 

Fain will take him, I am very convinced about that. There must be a reason for fain still being alive. And it has been established that Fain is dead set on not allowing anyone else to kill Rand. Well, Rand would have about as much chance against SH as a blueberry in a supernova, since it seems SH can block channeling. A knife in the back, on the other hand...

 

<12. Ogier - Seems fairly obvious, Loial will convince the gardeners to gather arms and lead them to battle, but not before more Trollocs attack Shang'tai during or shortly after the stump and insight the Ogier to close all the waygates before the last battle.>

 

The Garderers are Seanchan, they go to battle if Tuon tells them to, not otherwise. Loial will convince the Ogier on "our" continent to go to war, at least some of them.

 

<13. Galad - The new Lord Captain Commander has got to put in an appearance at some point and learn that morgase is still alive (along with everyone else). He also might like to know that Rand is his half-brother as well.>

 

Easiest way to do this would be for Galad to run into Perrin, see Morgase, agree to hook up with Perrin when he head back to Rand, have a chat with dear brother Rand and then lead his whitecloaks to war as allies to Rand.

 

<15. Luc/Isam/Slayer - Rand's uncle hasn't featured much so far, but we know he's going to do more. The question is when and what? It seems unlikely Gitara would have sent Luc to the Blight unless she thought it would help the future, but how?>

 

His main goal seems to be hunting Fain. Now that's a showdown I really want to see, have Fain and Slayer pull out all their little extra gifts so we can see what they're really made of :D

 

<17. Ta'veren - Perrin and Mat are ta'veren for a reason, moreso than just to fight at the last battle. I think they have to be with Rand at Shayol Ghul, but the 'why' eludes me.>

 

One of the major things we've seen that ta'veren do is twist chance. Which can result in pretty much anything...

 

<18. The rest of the foresaken - Demandred/Logain seems probable and semhirage may well die in captivity. Mesaana has to surface at some point, probably during the routing of the black ajah. Morodin is almost definitely going to have to fight Rand at the end... but what about Graendal? Is she going to 'falter' along with Aran'gar?>

 

Logain vs Demandred??? It's been more than hinted that Logain will take on Taim, and unless he's supposed to come out as the main character of AMOL, you might want to go easy with having him taking out even more big baddies.

Mesaana...Well, there's a big pile of conflict bubbling in the tower atm, the BA hunt, the BA hunting BA hunters, Egwene pulling down Elaida, Seanchan planning an attack...

Graendal is residing in Arad Doman. Incidently, Rand is on his way there right now, with a huge army, and Cadsuane with all her hair-thingies. Oh, and Aviendha is there now as well, with her newly discovered Talent for "reading" ter'angreal. A good set-up for Graendal being discovered by accident, and then blasted to oblivion.

 

<20. Masema - Got to get killed along with the remnants of his scavengers. Probably by Rand after him and Perrin meet up, but possibly by Perrin after what happened with Aram.>

 

Perrin has a very good reason to take Masema out now. The dragonsworn doesn't exist anymore, so the reason he had to bring Masema back to Rand is gone, thus rendering Masema useless.

 

<21. Moiraine - She's back, but why? There must be more than to give Lan and Nyneave her blessing, what's her real roll in all this?>

 

Help Rand out, with his problem killing women? It's been mentioned so many times that Moiraine is #1 of his list of women he think has died because of him. Well, when he learns that the one he feels most guilty about did in fact not die at all, he might be able to realize that it might be ok to kill a woman if he has to. For example Cyndane returning to finish the job.

 

There's also a good possibility Moiraine returns with some kind of knowledge that will be crucial for Rand.

 

<22. Verin - is she black, is she just planning things very intricately, no, she's black. Verin seems to fit neatly into the 'we must help Rand... so he can die when he should' crowd along with Elza and any other Randsworn blacks. But when is this going to come to the fore? What did she do in Far Madding years ago so she couldn't use her real name? And what has she been planning all this time?>

 

Verin is Not black, end of story.

 

<23. Liandrin / Sulroth - will most likely be taken out of seanchan occupied lands so serve the dark a mite longer. Could also be accompanied by Galina, if so this will probably happen in the prologue.>

 

Suroth is about to be shipped back to seandar, to be sold as property. Can't see the shadow lifting a finger to help her, she's useless to them now.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Good points, Maj.

 

The whole Sammael thing is very puzzling. Jordan has said "Mashadar got him. He's toast." So, if the DO could somehow bring him back ( can the DO recover a soul killed by an opposing evil? ), it certainly can't be in Sammael's body.

 

Yet, someone who appears to BE Sammael was seen ordering Trollocs into the Ways. Shortly thereafter, 100,000 Trollocs try to take out Rand at the Manor. Using Trollocs to do his dirty work is a very Sammael thing to do. He tried it once before in Tear.

 

It looks like Sammael. It acts like Sammael. But, Sammael is toast.

 

:?: :?: :?: :?:

[Hocoino]

Wow, There was a lot in that post. Good Job Luckers.

 

Of course I don't know how RJ is going to finish the series in one book so it's going to be virtually impossible for us to put everything that is going to happen in a forum post.

 

I'd just like to add that I'm sure that there are going to be things RJ has planned that we could never have forseen. I hope that his blog will allow him to drop little tidbits to tease us. ; )

 

About the Sammeal question that has sprung up. Just an idea, but do you think it could be Tiam? Keep Rand busy and he can't discover what's up at the Black Tower. That's my theory anyway.

 

Since I'm posting the #1 thing I look forward to finding out is about Moiraine. She became my fav. char in book 4, and I was furious when she died in 5. I got giddy (literally I did... my friends still tease me about it) when I read in KOD that she will come back. I'd given up hope when Lan's bond was broke. If the Dark Lord posesses Rand and makes him kill kittens and other such dark acts won't matter if I don't find out about Moiraine! ; )

[ajc42]

Firstly, apologies for a few slip ups. I know the Gardeners are the Ogier branch of the Deathwatch Guard, but Ogiers are also refered to as Gardeners and Builders in other places, so it could be that they took their name from that. I should have been more clear on what I was refering to though sorry. Also, I was unaware that RJ had confirmed Sammael's death. I wasn't suggesting that he had been revived (he wouldn't look the same if he had been), but I thought his whole death sequence was a little fuzzy and it occured that he could have seen Liah disapear from the balefire thirty seconds before it hit her. In that case Sammael wouldn't have been in the same place when Rand redirected his beam to kill him as well. He could then have been in a better place to avoid mashadar and survive, but then go into hiding having lost Illian. But, since RJ has confirmed the forsaken is dead then I guess I'm left looking sheepish. If I had to choose one of the forsaken to immitate him it would be Demandred.

 

Secondly, in response to point 18. I should have made it more clear that... Demandred IS Taim. The foresaken are the ones who use the phrase 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule' and that's exactly what Taim says at the end of KOD. Also, Lews rages in Rand's head every time he's with Taim, not because he's crazy or hates Asha'man, but because he reconises Demandred. Lews Therin has never hated the Asha'man, but he saw what Demandred would use them for. He raged when others were around too, granted, but that was always in the presence of Corlan Daishiva, who we now know to be Osan'gar/Aginor. I thought that was so obvious that it didn't need spelling out.

 

And on that note, Osan'gar and Aran'gar are so named because of an ancient dueling custom before the breaking where the combatants had two knives (called Osan'gar and Aran'gar), one for each hand - Left hand and Right hand. Shadar Haran tells us this, their names literally mean left hand and right hand in the old tongue so I think the prophecy definitely refers to them and not Mat and Perrin.

 

Additional, I'm not sure if Graendel is still in Arad Doman, she seemed to get pulled out and put back under command of Shadar Haran. It seems she upped and left, leaving her schemes unfulfilled and the country in a mess. I'm not sure though, maybe.

 

I also don't agree with you about Verin, Aes Sedai have their own reasons for everything, true. But in one of the segments told from Verin's own perspective she says she has been planning things to do with Rand for Seventy (I think, could be sixty) years, which is long before Gitara even started moving Andor into play. I cant see how she could have been planning anyhing unless she was under the command of the never-imprissoned-Ishamael as Ba'alzamon.

 

And as for 'people being set up against each other', you have to let youself go into the story a little and imagine the characters as real people. If you were Moghedien you would be itching for revenge against Nyneave, the same for Cyndane/Lanfear against the the women who 'took Lews Therin' away from her. I'm not saying it's definite, but it looks likely.

 

I'm still convinced that someone will get turned to the dark at some point, I'd bet a lot that RJ put it in there for a reason, even if it's just so the black can try and be caught before they finish or to explain the sudden turn around of someone we know isn't black (such as Sheriam...)

 

I agree with you about Moiraine and Galad, though.

 

Finally, as far as the Irish Faeries/Finn bit is concerned, I think RJ is taking the ledgend and twisting it to fit into the story. He's done that in a number of places (The Son of a Maiden, ring any christian bells?) by taking real world myths and fitting them into the story. I would say it's very possible he set up the right characters to save Moiraine who fitted into the Irish Myth.

[Hocoino]

Maybe I heard wrong but I thought RJ said Taim isn't Demondred?

 

 

I dunno where ppl. get this stuff because I've looked for interviews where he says this stuff and I haven't found it, but I have heard it from several ppl. so I think it's true.

[Guest Majsju]

<Secondly, in response to point 18. I should have made it more clear that... Demandred IS Taim. The foresaken are the ones who use the phrase 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule' and that's exactly what Taim says at the end of KOD. Also, Lews rages in Rand's head every time he's with Taim, not because he's crazy or hates Asha'man, but because he reconises Demandred. Lews Therin has never hated the Asha'man, but he saw what Demandred would use them for. He raged when others were around too, granted, but that was always in the presence of Corlan Daishiva, who we now know to be Osan'gar/Aginor. I thought that was so obvious that it didn't need spelling out.>

 

Another thing confirmed by RJ, Demandred is not Taim, Taim is not Demandred.

 

<And on that note, Osan'gar and Aran'gar are so named because of an ancient dueling custom before the breaking where the combatants had two knives (called Osan'gar and Aran'gar), one for each hand - Left hand and Right hand. Shadar Haran tells us this, their names literally mean left hand and right hand in the old tongue so I think the prophecy definitely refers to them and not Mat and Perrin.>

 

Prophecies are rarely so blunt that they would make a direct reference to a long lost knife game.

Osan'gar and Aran'gar have no major relevance, especially not Osan'gar, who didn't do much more than some spying before he got killed again. He won't even be there for TG.

Mat and perrin on the other hand, both extremely relevant for TG, both mentioned in other places in the prophecies, both fitting perfectly with falters and strays, considering where they are at the moment, and where they should be instead.

 

<Additional, I'm not sure if Graendel is still in Arad Doman, she seemed to get pulled out and put back under command of Shadar Haran. It seems she upped and left, leaving her schemes unfulfilled and the country in a mess. I'm not sure though, maybe.>

 

Uhm, what we Saw SH do to her was pretty much reigning her in, telling her that now she would have to start working for the big scheme instead of her own. Nothing even vaguely hints at her leaving Arad Doman.

 

<And as for 'people being set up against each other', you have to let youself go into the story a little and imagine the characters as real people. If you were Moghedien you would be itching for revenge against Nyneave, the same for Cyndane/Lanfear against the the women who 'took Lews Therin' away from her. I'm not saying it's definite, but it looks likely.>

 

Of course Moghedien would want a shot at Nynaeve, given the chance. But do you seriously think anyone would stay away from taking her out, just because she "belongs" to someone else? It is of course very possible they will face eachother, but if RJ tries to pair up every single planted confrontation, I will be very disappointed with him.

 

<Finally, as far as the Irish Faeries/Finn bit is concerned, I think RJ is taking the ledgend and twisting it to fit into the story. He's done that in a number of places (The Son of a Maiden, ring any christian bells?) by taking real world myths and fitting them into the story. I would say it's very possible he set up the right characters to save Moiraine who fitted into the Irish Myth.>

 

Of curse RJ set the right characters, he's the one writing the whole thing, after all. What I was refering to was the idea of the finns forbidding music because they had seen Thom coming.

[ajc42]

I headr that too, about two months ago on another board, but I cant for the life of me figure out where it came from. If Taim isn't demandred then I'm at a loss to what he is, it'd take someone bloody powerful to be put in charge of Aginor/Osan'gar/Daishiva.

 

Up until I read RJ's denunciation of the rumour I was certain and I just kept gathering evidence in my head. Afterwards, without any actual source for the RJ quote I decided to commit myself to the idea and be damned. If Taim doesn't turn out to be Demandred at this point I'll be disappointed. Demandred's been built up to be such a nemesis of Rand/Lews Therin, and if he hasn't even met Rand yet it'll be a let down when he finally falls.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Another thing confirmed by RJ' date=' Demandred is not Taim, Taim is not Demandred.[/quote']

 

That one get's really tricky. Understand, I'm not wild about the idea of Taim as Demandred, but...

 

I believe the question he was asked was whether Demandred had been impersonating Taim, not whether Demandred was Taim. If the question had been, "Is Demandred masquerading as Mazrim Taim?", the answer might have been different.

 

If you are somebody, ie. if you created that persona yourself, you don't have to impersonate them. There may never have been a Mazrim Taim any more than there ever was a Lord Brend, or a Lord Gaebril.

 

Mesaana is most likely impersonating a real Aes Sedai. Sammael masqueraded as the entirely fictional Lord Brend.