telepathy, and threads tied to the wheel.(or who is perrin?)

[joeybsmash]

okay, the whorling colors in mat, perrin and rand's heads when they think of each other. my theory is that during the last battle the three will be connected telepathically in order to fight more efficiently. also, rand is LTT recycled, and mat is one of Atur hawking's generals recycled. who the hell is perrin? he is tavern ofcourse but who? is he mentioned? was LTT atur hawking and the other 2 his men? no, that's not possible, atur hawking was called with the horn. hwo the hell is perrin!

[Guest cwestervelt]

Mat is not one of Hawkwing's generals recycled. It is unlikely that either Mat or Perrin are anyone reborn.

 

The memories that Mat has are not from past lives. Neither are most of them from Hawkwing's generals. In fact, most of Mat's memories of Hawkwing are from people that disliked and opposed him.

[joeybsmash]

mat and perrin are ta'avern. ta'avern are recycled.

[Gurney]

mat and perrin are ta'avern. ta'avern are recycled.

 

When did it say ta'avern are recycled? The only thing I can remember about ta'avern are that the pattern makes one to fix something. That doesn't necessary mean it's the same ones. Also, doesn't it say at some point or another that a person might only be ta'avern for a time?

[Minnea]

It is unlikely that either Mat or Perrin are anyone reborn.

 

So far as I understand it, EVERYONE is someone reborn. They just don't know who they were last time (if they're not specific souls like the Dragon).

[Hoop Snake]

Mat and Perrin are ta'veren, but that is the extent of it. Their previous carnations are not necessarily anything special. I think "ta'verenness" is a spur of the moment thing done by the pattern, because people aren't necessarily ta'veren for their whole lives.

[Guest Majsju]

Yes, ta'veren are created by the Wheel when there's need for it, they're not born that way. Mat, Perrin and Rand became ta'veren just slightly before Moraine's arival in the Two Rivers.

[joeybsmash]

i'm pretty certain that at some point ta'avern are described as threads that the pattern spins around and are spun out again and again. i'm inbetween readings right now so i can't state book and chapter, but i'm pretty sure it's there.

[Guest Majsju]

It's not. What does exist however is RJ's description of what ta'veren means, and how it functions.

 

The Wheel creates ta’veren at need, making someone who is already alive one. You aren’t born ta’veren. Can you imagine being around a ta’veren who is teething? It would be possible for a Darkfriend or Forsaken to be made ta’veren, but it seems unlikely. Ta’veren are part of the Wheel’s self-correcting mechanism. When the Pattern seems to be drifting too quickly, and especially if it is in the wrong direction, one or more ta’veren are created. I can’t really see how making a Darkfriend or Forsaken ta’veren would help with correcting the drift of the Pattern. Ta’veren can oppose one another, when their conflict is what the Wheel “sees†as the necessary corrective. And, no, ta’veren is not Old Tongue for Deus ex machina. It came out of musings on luck, charismatic leaders, and the theory of the indispensable man.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?m=200510

[jo]

But didn't Mat have memories before he went through the doorway? Wasn't he already spouting the OT before any of the other stuff happened?

[TheDiceAgain...]

Yes, Mat occasionally spouted the Old Tongue before he went through either doorways. For example when they first fought the Darkhounds outside of Shadar Logoth and when he is healed of the dagger in the White Tower.

 

However, these were a result of "his" soul, e.g. he is a decendent of Manetheren and has some "latent memories" from his bloodline and antecedents(The Old Blood runs strong in the Two Rivers).

 

The memories that were put into his head by the Eelfinn are completely seperate from these. They are slivers of other people's memories that have been stuffed into his head because when he requested that the holes in his memory be filled, he didn't specify that he wanted his own memories back, just that the holes be filled with something.