Will Rand Live?

[moroten]

Rand and "the Dragon" (Lews Therin) are the same soul. How could one live on if the other dies? The most that could happen is that their personalities merge again with one coming out as dominant, but that isn't exactly death for the subordinate personality, either. The third age battle with the DO is Rand's fight, in any case, and Rand actually wants to survive it; LTT already had his chance, and he's eager to die (which amounts to his personality receding again, as it was for most of Rand's life).

 

Do we have evidence that it is always Lews therin that is the dragon reborn? Is Lews therin the original dragon reborn? I got the picture that he was the LAST dragon reborn.

 

The dragon reborn have been reborn multiple times(according to a discussion with ishamael).

 

My point is, are we sure that it is not Rand that will be the future dragon in another body? So that Rand survives but not in the way he wants.

[Zardi]

Well sure, Rand's soul has been reborn many times (infinite times, probably) throughout the turnings of the wheel. But when third agers talk about "the Dragon," they mean Lews Therin Telamon. Thus, when you said Rand would die but "the Dragon" would live on, I thought you were referring to LTT.

My point is, are we sure that it is not Rand that will be the future dragon in another body?

It will be his soul in another body. As far as any of us knows, it is always that soul which is reborn to fight the DO. But whether or not Rand's personality will emerge in the next DR's head, as LTT has appeared in Rand's, I have no idea. It's entirely possible. However, I don't believe that's what the Finns referred to, for reasons Luckers has already stated.

[ShadowKillerr]

I'd have to agree with all the people who believe that either LTT or Rand will die but the other lives on... Though I hope it is Rand who walks away. Again as metioned before no one says Rand himself has to die... sevrely wounded most defintely and maybe this is how LTT's "voice thingy" will fade out.

 

Just some :idea: 's

[Gentled Ben]

The Finns told him that "To live, you must die."

[Mclean]

It wouldnt be war to let him live. Make him a matyr,survived by his children.

[aznprince001]

It wouldnt be war to let him live. Make him a matyr' date='survived by his children.[/quote']

 

If Rand and LTT are the same, LTT could be the one finally to rest.

[Leopoled Boothe]

About the creationist slant in Randland, I was about to agree with you, because I'd always thought of it that way too, when I remembered: didn't the wonder girls see a large (dinosaur?) skeleton in one of the palaces in Falme? Or was it something mundane like an elephant? I can't even remember which book it's in, so if anyone has any idea what I'm talking about...:roll: Of course, that isn't complete evidence for humans in Randland evolving from single-celled organisms. It's possible the Creator had dinosaurs and humans co-existing. Do we have any other evidence either way?

 

Yah, I always assumed that the skeleton in Tanchico was that of a Triceratops b/c Egwene first thought it had four eyesockets but later decied that two of the holes were for "tusks." Since Triceratops had two horns located above its eyes it would be easy to mistake them for two additional eyesockets. Whatever the case, the existance in dinosaurs in Randland in no way suggests any form of evolution. Creationists in the real world often make the claim that both dinosaurs and humans were present from the begining to time and therefore coexisted until the former went extinct. So it follows that in a fictional Creationist world that dinosaurs and human would similarly have coexisted.

 

Of course another possiblity I have considered is that the skeleton in Tanchico is that of a dragon. Yet another posibility is that it is both. Perhaps humans and dinosaurs co-existed in the Age of Legends and the image on LTT's dragon banner was inspired by a dinosaur.

[aznprince001]

Yeah its possible that Egwene saw a dinosaur, but the idea of a dragon migrated from Asia into European lore, The "European Dragon" is figure that had wings but also walked either on 2 or 4 legs. "Asian Dragons" are dragons who mostly fly and rule the skies. Their bodies are usally shaped as a serpent

[Jimmyrun]

My personal opinion is that he will live, just me feelings on the matter though.

 

One reason for thinking that he will live is because of something that Aviendha says in CoT, I don't have exact quotes or page numbers but it is around page 300 - 350 (chapter 10 I think) when she and Elayne are talking about going to Rand while he is cleansing saidin. At the time she tells Elayne about her experience in the rings at Rhuidean and she says that she knew she would have sister-wives, not a sister-wife but plural wives.

 

That made me think of only two possibilities 1) she would be married to one man along with at least two other women (Rand, Elayne, and Min) or 2) she would live long enough because of the power that she would have multiple husbands and thus have more than one sister-wife throughout her life leading to the use of the plural wives.

 

I know it isn't definitive proof, nothing really is until it is completely finished in the books, but when I read that I thought that she would be with Rand, Elayne, and Min and that is where she got the sister-wives. This is all just my opinion on the subject though and doesn't mean that others won't read it differently than I did but that was the first thing I thought when I read that.

[HeartsOfWar]

Well you're half right Rand's world is our future as well as our past. How is this possible? Because in the WOT series time is a wheel and therefore is circular. Robert Jordan himself has said several times that his characters are the source of our legends and that we are the source of there's.

 

If you do even the most basic reading in Norse mythology you will notice the striking parellels between the lives of Mat and the norse god Odin, and those between the lives of Perrin and the norse god Thor, who was known as Pern in Galic mythology. Moreover, the parelles between the lives of Rand and King Aurthur should be obvious as well, most notably that each had to pull a sword from a stone to prove his birthright. A few other theories that have be put forward are"

 

Thom Merilin = Merlin

Egwene al'Vere = Gwenavier

Galad = Sir Galahad (Both are obsessed with always doing the right thing though Galahad is viewed in a much for positive light for doing so)

Gawyn = Sir Gawyn

Lan = Sir Lancelot

Mordin = Mordred or alternativly that the name Mordred is derived as a combination of the names Mordin and Damondred. This has lead some fans to postulate that Rand's mortal wound will be delivered through a combined effort on the part of these two.

 

This is a rather large coincidence... I don't doubt that it's possible for RJ to have possibly borrowed or used these characters as inspiration, but they are not alike.

 

1. The tales of Arthur have him remove Excalibur from a stone or he gets it from the lady in the lake. Rand must remove a sword from a place called the stone... not exactly the same principle... but tell me... how does this show Rand is derived from Arthurian inspiration?

 

2. Thom is nothing like merlin... Thom is not capable of channeling... and merlin was not a simple bard... no connection.

 

3. Egwene does not share any of the qualities as guinevere... Am I to believe that Egwene will fall in love with Lancelot (your Lan?) no...

 

4. Lan... Ummm... no... see above... furthermore, lancelot was not of noble blood, and was quite certainly a mercenary before finding Arthur... neither of which befit Lan.

 

5.Galad does do the right thing... but this is not the same as being "pure" which is what Galahad was. Second, Galahad is Lancelot's son... and we know that doesn't fit with RJ's story...

 

oh.. almost forgot... Morgase could be Morgause (Arthur's sister), but then again... if Rand is suppose to be Arthur, that would mean Morgase would be his sister... but he doesn't have a sister... DOH

 

I could go on and on... but no... what you have suggested is a simple play on words. Yes, RJ may have used the names as inspiration, but he certainly did not use the characters themselves as inspiration... sorry...

 

And I'll be very dissapointed if RJ does not kill Rand. I don't hate Rand, but life is not always fair... some individuals must die in order to provide a future / secure an Idea to change the world.