Theory about defeating DO

[jonsith]

Im new here, but here goes.

My theory is that Rand and some others probably, use balefire not on the dark one but on the bore through his prison itself. Eliminating the bore altogether. It has been awhile since i have read TFoH, but the scientist Rand had researching it had found a way. When that happens it seals the DO Prison all the way back to the AoL. The ramifications of that are that the DO influence through that time is taken out but as is said on other discussions, thier memories remain. therefore, everyone that was already evil remain evil, and there actions remain the same. When that happens the Age Lace is broken irrevicobly(spelling sorry) the wheel of time is shattered and there will be no more repitition of the ages. Goes to a more linear timeline. RJ has already said that the DO cannot be killed. Next best thing. That is my theory, good as any i guess.

[Jethro]

I think bits of the theory contradict itself. I will explain.

 

If the Bore was balefired (not sure if its possible but anyway) it would be the affect the Bore itself had had that would be undone, not the Dark Ones actions, and if the Bore was balefired then for however long it wouldnt have been holding the Dark One away. So the Dark One would be free, and the remaining time that he wasnt imprisoned would be all the time he needed I think, since Rand cant counter what someone has already done. Its abit hard to explain. Say if they balefired the Bore and the effect removed ten minutes of the Bores existance. In that ten minuites, the Dark One could have done whatever he wanted knowing Rand cant counter him because Rand would have already experienced those ten minutes before the Dark One did. Do you see?

 

Also, RJ stated that if the Dark One was killed by balefire, it would unravel the Pattern. Thats because the ammount of balefire it would take would undo his actions that far back that everything would have changed-the same would have happened if your theory worked even if the Dark One didnt die-if his actions were undone, the Pattern would unravel.

 

My own theory is that Rand and his channelers will go to Shayol Ghul, and Rand will break teh Seals, breaking the Dark One free. I think Rand will then battle the Dark One with the Choeden Kal, while his channelers will be rebuilding the Dark Ones prison-with both Saidin and Saidar, meaning no seals are needed this time-and just before the prison is complete Rand will sacrifice himself to put the Dark One in the prison. Alivia will help him make the sacrifice in the correct way so it does what Rand needs, and then maybe (this is the biggest stretch) Nynaeve and Damer Flynn will link using Callandor and resurrect Rand.

[Cockta]

There has to be a way to defeat the DO, and not just seal him away! God, this has always bugged me!

[Tyrell]

Why must there be a way to defeat him?

[Jethro]

Sealing him away is defeating him. We wont see Shaitan die in AMoL.

[Cockta]

Hehe, sealing him away is defeating him temporarily, but I want to deal with him permanently, you know.

[Jethro]

yeah it'd be good to see Rand achieve the impossible, but the realism of a sealing will be better i think

[Tyrell]

There *must* be no permanent solution. By the very cynical nature of the wheel the Dark One can not be permanently defeated, I don't believe in the whole "Create linear time" stuff, it'd be a cop-out.

[Cockta]

Why shoudln't Rand be able to do the impossible? Hell, Nynaeve, and then later Damer Flinn achieved the impossible by Healing stilled channelers.

[a pale tanned lover]

think your missing the point, if there is no dark left and only light then the dark will win, its all about balance, imagine a world with no evil, then everything would be done in the name of good because evil wouldnt be remembered and then good would just rot and in the end it would be THE END.

[Majsju]

People are quite capable of evil without the DO.

Just look at Semirhage, it was not the DOs influence that made her a sadist, she went down that path long before the Bore was drilled.

 

Or look at Shadar Logoth. Something that was supposed to stand in opposition to the DO managed to turn out just as evil.

 

Want a world without evil? Wipe out the human race.

[Cockta]

Excellent point there Majsju. But if evil can live without the DO, then Rand and co should have no compunction against killing the DO then?

[Majsju]

Ah, but there is a difference between the evil represented by the DO, and the evil we as humans are capable of, yes?

 

Also, it is not just a mater of having a balance between good and evil, there is also the aspect of the DO representing Chaos, and the Wheel representing Order.

 

That said, I kinda doubt Rand is having this kind of philosophic discourse going on, in his case, what will prevent him from killing the DO will be ability. RJ did give a hint about what it would take to kill the DO when he said that the amount of balefire necessary would destroy the world, and balefire from what we have seen the most powerful weapon around.

[Mr Ares]

imagine a world with no evil, then everything would be done in the name of good because evil wouldnt be remembered and then good would just rot.

Why would good just rot? In fact, in a world with no evil it could be impossible for things to rot - if there is only good, then any rot that takes place will be good rot anyway, so why is this a problem?

 

Want a world without evil? Wipe out the human race.

I'm up for it. Anyone else in?

 

Why shoudln't Rand be able to do the impossible?

Because the impossible, by definition, can't be done.

 

My theory is that Rand and some others probably' date=' use balefire not on the dark one but on the bore through his prison itself.[/quote']How do you balefire a metaphysical hole in reality which exists everywhere? Can you really balefire something intangible?

When that happens it seals the DO Prison all the way back to the AoL.

Which causes massive changes too the timeline, the Wheel can't cope and you destroy the Pattern. Your idea of saving the world is destroying it?

The ramifications of that are that the DO influence through that time is taken out but as is said on other discussions, thier memories remain. therefore, everyone that was already evil remain evil, and there actions remain the same.

This just makes no sense. Their actions do not remain the same, although the memory remains. Why, when Shai'tan, one of the principle causes for the strife in the AoL, is removed, do they still act in the same way? Aginor and Mesaana both carried out work that wouldn't be allowed normally. So there must be some system in place that allows Messana's children, or the creation of Shadowspawn. Society would still need to collapse, in other words, but it does so despite the cause of the Collapse being removed. Asmo went to the Shadow for the promise of eternal life. No Shai'tan, no promise. So he wouldn't go over. Everyone acts the same even though they have no reason to act the same. It makes no sense.

When that happens the Age Lace is broken irrevicobly(spelling sorry) the wheel of time is shattered and there will be no more repitition of the ages.

So why does the Age Lace break? Given that everyone is already going to act in the same way anyway?

Goes to a more linear timeline.

Why do people think this? Why not destroy time?

[Cockta]

This is gonna sounds stupid, but would Rand kill the DO and recreate the world, just what the DO want to do, only that the Light win, and Rand does it?

[Hybrid]

This is gonna sounds stupid, but would Rand kill the DO and recreate the world, just what the DO want to do, only that the Light win, and Rand does it?

And how does Rand recreate the world?  I doubt the DO will be killed.  Rather, he'll be locked away, and the whole thing will continue forever.  I think I said it in an earlier thread, but I think a cool way to capture the cyclical nature of the series would be to have an epilogue with the wind starting on the road in TEOTW, or something of that vein.

[Cockta]

In the same way the DO plans to recreate the world if he wins.

[Mr Ares]

In the same way the DO plans to recreate the world if he wins.

Shai'tan is a god. Rand isn't. Slight inequality of power.

[Cockta]

So? Everyone thought Healing someone so he/she could channel again was impossible, until Nynaeve did it.

[Hybrid]

So? Everyone thought Healing someone so he/she could channel again was impossible, until Nynaeve did it.

Wrong.  It was not impossible, just no one had figured out a way to do it.  But it was within the power and resources of a powerful channeler such as Nynaeve.  Recreating the world isn't.  Period.

[Cockta]

First we need to know how much Power it is required to make a planet. Wow, maybe it is too much :)

[ROB_88]

i think that Rand will try to kill the DO completely, but in the end he realises it can't be done without destroying the world, so he just ends up locking him back in again

[Cockta]

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again; We need to RAFO!

[Dragonfire101]

I'm new, but I don't think the DO can be killed. He has godlike powers that extend beyond the grave. I would be interesting if, in the end, the entire tale rewinds back to the Eye of the World prologue, in which the whole thing repeats. It would also be interesting if the TG WAS real and there WAS an apocolyptic battle. The Creator has said he would take no part (in theory), therefore Rand would have to deal with the DO. No matter how many people and monsters and whatever the DO and Rand bring to fight, it all comes down to Rand and his actions. If there was an apocolyptic battle, I think the DO would be sealed away permenatly. If not an apocolyotic battle, the whole thing would repeat, preferrably from the Eye of the World prologue (preferably by me, anyways).