Setalle Anan *potential spoilers*

[SoulCollector]

In KoD when Mat shows Setalle Anan his foxhead medallion she looks at it with awe, and then recovers herself quickly. Mat knows then that she was Aes Sedai once. To this Mistress Anan replies..."but Aes Sedai expect that when...certain things...happen, the woman will go away decently and die soon after". She goes on to say that her husband found her and they lived happily ever after and so on. So my question is, is there anywhere in the books that might give a clue to what Setalle Anan did to be stilled? Since stilling is a practice that is not used much her action(s) must have been pretty severe to warrant stilling. It does not say in the dialogue that she was stilled but I think it a a reasonable conclusion to draw.

 

This information comes from Knife of Dreams, Chapter 9: A Short Path, page 249 in paperback.

[Swigaro]

I think the general concensus is that she was burned out, possibly studying Ter Angrael, rather than being Stilled. 

[Ahaz Flagg]

  I cannot remember which book, book 2 i beleive though is the one.  All novices are required to learn the name of every sister that was stilled.  And i am sure there was line that mentioned it had been a while since this happened.  It is safe to assume she was burnt out rather than stilled.  I guess it is possible that she was one that was stilled, but that would lead into a discussuon on how long a stilled, Channaler lives.  With no one to study one who was ever burnt out or stilled, we will have to assume the last gift is youth, and they would age like a normal person.

 

It is my hope that She runs into an Asha Man that can heal before she runs into an Aes Sedai. I certianly hope that she gets healed, she is one of the few women in the book who I like.

[Charlz Guybon]

It may not be possible to heal someone who has been burned out, rather than stilled. IIRC those stilled can sense the source they just can't touch it, those burned out can't even do that.

[Ahaz Flagg]

It may not be possible to heal someone who has been burned out, rather than stilled. IIRC those stilled can sense the source they just can't touch it, those burned out can't even do that.

 

I beleive you are in error, severed, stilled, genteled and burned out are all the same thing. They are just words used for how the person was severed form the source.

[Roxinos]

Actually....

 

Severed, stilled, gentled are all terms referring to the same action. Being cut off from the Source by another person.

 

Burning out is an entirely different matter altogether. The only similarity between burning out and being severed is that in both cases, the channeler can no longer touch the Source.

 

Think of it this way:

 

Severed: A ninja dives into the room and cuts your arm off with his sword. Clean cut. You can still see your arm, and you might be able to reattach it.

 

Burned out: You are a chemist toying with black powder. BOOM! Your arm is gone.

[Indiangangster]

hmm but didn't elyane say, at one point of the book, that it didn't matter if one of the ter'ranngeal burns her out because she could still be healed?

so i think it is the same thing but different name

[trakand_01]

No, stilling, gentling is what happened to Siuan, and Logain respectively. They were ... cut off. Imagine a hairdryer with a cord to a plug. Someone cuts the cord, the dryer doesnt work. This is like stilling or gentling - it can be repaired. You blow the motor, the dryer doesnt work but this is like 'burning out' - rather than simply not being able to CONNECT to the power any more, the ability to channel itself is gone. You have used up your ability, and then some, the ability has been physicaly burned out of you, rather than simply... broken. Like a power surge, rather than an intentional 'cut off'.

 

As far as I understand / know, Setalle is / was Coreanin Nedeal - the woman who's notes Verin gave to Egwene. She was burnt out studying a ter'angreal, and left the tower to 'die quietly' I think around 90 years ago. But she didnt, she met Jasfer, married him and started a family - this sustained her.

[ksbsnowowl]

Another piece of evidence that burning out is different than severing (though someone will need to double-check and confirm):

 

Recall that Suian could wear the a'dam bracelet and feel Moghedien's (sp) emotions through the a'dam.

 

IIRC, in Winter's Heart Setalle offers to try to be one of the "Sul'dam" to sneak the damane Aes Sedai out of Ebou Dar, but she is unable to act in such a fashion (the damane gets sick, just as if the bracelet were hanging on a peg), and presumably could not feel the emotion link either.

 

I'm in the midst of rereading WH, but have not yet gotten to this part, which is at the end, IIRC.

[Charlz Guybon]

 

As far as I understand / know, Setalle is / was Coreanin Nedeal - the woman who's notes Verin gave to Egwene. She was burnt out studying a ter'angreal, and left the tower to 'die quietly' I think around 90 years ago. But she didnt, she met Jasfer, married him and started a family - this sustained her.

 

It can't be that long ago because people age normally after being stilled/burned out.

[Blade]

actually, setalle anan could feel the Aes Sedai through the link but she couldn't make anything happen. This being able to feel the person was what led Nynaeve to believe stilling could be healed because if there was nothing to heal then she wouldn't be able to feel anything.

[icspots]

As far as I understand / know, Setalle is / was Coreanin Nedeal - the woman who's notes Verin gave to Egwene. She was burnt out studying a ter'angreal, and left the tower to 'die quietly' I think around 90 years ago. But she didnt, she met Jasfer, married him and started a family - this sustained her.

 

Coreanin was the WT's last Dreamer nearly 500 years before the books.  Also Verin didn't give Egwene the notes, only thought about it.  AFAIK there's no mention of Coreanin being stilled/burnt out.

 

I believe the consensus is that Setalle is actually Martine Janata, an Aes Sedai burned out ~70 years ago while studying Ter'angreal. The timing fits much better, not to mention that Martine's passion was studying Ter'angreal so it explains her fascination with Mat's Medallion.

 

Another piece of evidence that burning out is different than severing (though someone will need to double-check and confirm):

 

Recall that Suian could wear the a'dam bracelet and feel Moghedien's (sp) emotions through the a'dam.

 

IIRC, in Winter's Heart Setalle offers to try to be one of the "Sul'dam" to sneak the damane Aes Sedai out of Ebou Dar, but she is unable to act in such a fashion (the damane gets sick, just as if the bracelet were hanging on a peg), and presumably could not feel the emotion link either.

 

I'm in the midst of rereading WH, but have not yet gotten to this part, which is at the end, IIRC.

 

My position on healing burnt-out channelers is that until someone does it we won't know if it's possible.  It's true that so far we've only seen the severed Healed, but then again at the beginning of the series that was impossible as well.

 

As to the proof in the form of the comparison between Siuan/Moggy, and Setalle/Joline I don't believe that constitutes concrete evidence.  Remember that the A'dams they were using were different.  Elayne purposely removed many of the restrictions found in a Seanchan A'dam when she made Moggy's.  Obviously there's no leash, and Moggy can move around without anyone wearing the bracelet without getting sick or curling into a ball on the floor writhing in pain.  Since the scene was in Mat's POV and not Setalle's we don't really know if she did/did not feel anything.  It could be that Siuan would have gotten the same reaction if she'd tried with a standard A'dam but as Elayne's was different we just don't know.

[Luckers]

icspots we were posting at the same time, so forgive me if i seem to repeat things you already said  ;D

 

As to the proof in the form of the comparison between Siuan/Moggy, and Setalle/Joline I don't believe that constitutes concrete evidence.  Remember that the A'dams they were using were different.  Elayne purposely removed many of the restrictions found in a Seanchan A'dam when she made Moggy's.  Obviously there's no leash, and Moggy can move around without anyone wearing the bracelet without getting sick or curling into a ball on the floor writhing in pain.  Since the scene was in Mat's POV and not Setalle's we don't really know if she did/did not feel anything.  It could be that Siuan would have gotten the same reaction if she'd tried with a standard A'dam but as Elayne's was different we just don't know.

 

Indeed, adding to that Joline's reaction was that of a woman trying to move whilst no one wore the bracelet--its specifically stated that she took two steps before the pain came upon her. Elayne's bracelet lacked that protection, as icspots pointed out.

 

All in all that scene speaks to nothing one way or the other. Setelle didn't want Joline to know she'd once been Aes Sedai, so after it was proven that the a'dam would not work for her she had no reason to comment on any sensations she felt--which would, after all, have aroused Joline's suspicions.

 

As far as I understand / know, Setalle is / was Coreanin Nedeal - the woman who's notes Verin gave to Egwene. She was burnt out studying a ter'angreal, and left the tower to 'die quietly' I think around 90 years ago. But she didnt, she met Jasfer, married him and started a family - this sustained her.

 

Coreanin died nearly five hundred years ago. She is not Setelle Anan. Setelle Anan is Martine Janata, a brown sister who was burned out studying a ter'angreal thirty five years ago.

 

Stilling/gentling and burning out are two different functions--in both method and result. That being said burning out is healable--we know this because of a couple of different reasons.

 

Firstly, there is the situation of Ronaille, Irgain and Sashelle, the three Aes Sedai severed from the True Source by Rand at Dumai's Wells. Whilst it is termed within the books that he 'stilled' them because he did it to them intentionally, functionally what he did bears no resemblence to the knife sharp weave of stilling as described by Nynaeve in tSR. Instead he siezed weaves they were maintaining and crushed them in flows of spirit. They were severed from the True Source because he applied a presure that that overstrained their abilities thus searing them from them--burning them out.

 

It actually is precisely how its described that ter'angreal occaisionally burn people out--when using the power the ter'angreal draws upon the persons channeling in a way that overstresses their ability, thus burning it out of them. So, despite the fact that it was intentionally done by Rand, and is thus referred to as stilling, he did not still them--he applied presure until they were burnt out under the strain.

 

After which Flinn heals them.

 

The second case is that of Cyndane. Deductively it is pretty certain that both she and Moiraine were severed from the source when they fell through the doorway--we know this for a lot of reasons, and if you want to discuss that aspect of this argument look up one of the old Cyndane threads and revisit it in that. But, the point being they were severed.

 

Another thing we know is that the channeling state remains constant through the transmigratory process--alot of people raise the idea that Cyndane should have been reset after her birth, and that the body plays its own part in channeling thus Cyndane's new body wouldn't have been severed--but this is not true. Whatever part the body plays does not effect the transmigratory process--we know this as a fact because not only are the other three exactly the same strength they were, Aran'gar even still channels saidin.

 

Therefore we can state that transmigration would not have restored her ability at a decreased amount--if it were going to it would have been as with the others, and the same strength. The channeling state remains constant, so therefore Cyndane would have still been severed from the True Source.

 

Thereafter it would have been a simple matter to send for a Black Rebel sister to travel to Shayol Ghoul and hear her--a simple dream summons would suffice, though im sure they have other methods too. This is why Cyndane is decreased in strength (again, if you want to discuss that aspect of this look up one of the old threads and re-raise it here).

 

The point is Cyndane was burnt out, and healed.

 

The third and final piece of evidence comes from Egwene. She directly states that it had been hard to hold the novices back now that they no longer had to fear burning the ability out of themselves. This might have been an assumption on hers and the Aes Sedai's part--we know they arn't above doing that... again... and again... and again.... but frankly i don't see it. The Aes Sedai know the differences between burning out and stilling, and know what to expect. They can be stupid to a degree, but they still know their buisness.

 

Ultimately though, we know burning out can be healed.

 

 

[ksbsnowowl]

Excellent post Luckers.  My apologies for bringing up a point that turned out to be pointless. :-\

[Fryn]

I can't find it, but wasn't there a section where Cads is thinking about the AS she has availible to her, and thinks that things would of been easier with a few other AS that are no longer availible. At the time I thought that one of those was a reference to Setalle. I could easily be wrong though, as I can't find any reference to it now.