White Tower Mafia - Game Over

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

And how are you so sure I am wrong, Nae Nae? Why do you refuse to vote Hybrid? Is it the same reason you didn't wish to vote Clim? This is mafia, Nae....you have to put your personal friendships aside. Heck, I'll lynch my best friends if I suspect they are mafia.

myndrunner might have diareaah of the keyboard but i dont think he is mafia.

LMAO!!!! I love it!! I'm stealing that statement!!

So Verbal we need to look at huh? I have to agree he has been uncharacteristically quiet, but still....Hybrid is just really pinging on my radar with his whole frantic unvote thing. I would like to hear from his Verbageness though. If he is not mafia, we could use his insight.

Naeann · October 21, 2008

I don't know of any game where I refused to vote clim because he was my friend. I tricked him into voting WITH us when I was mafia. That's the only game I remember playing with him. I don't really know Hybrid that well other than the mafia games but I'd have no problem voting him if I felt he was guilty. I just don't feel he is.

Krugster is more than a friend to me and I'd still vote for him if I felt he was mafia. *shrugs*

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

Do you agree that three votes is hardly a bandwagon?

Dark Justice · October 21, 2008

Im obviously not surpriced at the reveal at all. But ill [glow=red,2,300]unvote[/glow]. The thing that makes Mynd so suspitious in all games is because he throws suspitions arround at everyone, and has a tendancy to

frame innocents, and win the game for the evils. (sorry mynd, but you have in two games. One I was in, and one other...)

Me voting early was to get the game moving. I am tired of games that stands still.. (so for that reason, its good not to lynch mynd..)

What happens in this game with no majority lynch, Dae?

Random? Or the one with most votes?

Naeann · October 21, 2008

It's the start of one. At three votes alot of people tend to start piling on that person .. hence calling it a bandwagon. They say well, why not? We gotta vote someone... Maybe he wanted his vote off before they started piling up and he wasn't around to remove his? Only he knows his reasoning but I don't feel its solid enough evidence against him to believe he is DEFINETLY a black ajah. Besides which.... how often do you STRONGLY go after someone in these games that turns out to be innocent? Alot? You so strongly go after someone that you manage to convince everyone theres NO WAY you could be wrong.. and quite often you ARE wrong.

Hybrid · October 21, 2008

Mynd, you keep using these words like "frantic" and "desperate." I unvoted Spirit simply because it was a random vote and within about two hours two more people (the next two voters) voted Spirit as well. And then you called me on the unvote for what? Because a bandwagon was taking off and I thought it was too fast even for a Day 1? I realize that Day 1 is random, but, like you said, I wanted to vote on something a little more concrete and people seemed to have blood on their minds. [glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]. I still think that your reasons for voting are a bit suspicious, but we can't risk lynching a role as important as a Power Blocker.

Hybrid · October 21, 2008

And now I have to decide between Jaydena and Catina. I'm going to vote [glow=red,2,300]Catina[/glow]. Jaydena's vote placement was suspicious, but I'm not getting much of a mafia feeling about it though. Catina, on the other hand, originally called me out on the unvote but now seems to be hiding behind Mynd's reasons.

Dark Justice · October 21, 2008

so.. when is deadline? Id like to have more time to think it all over, but unfortunately its day one, and not much to go on. And what is vote count??

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

Me voting early was to get the game moving. I am tired of games that stands still.. (so for that reason, its good not to lynch mynd..)

Isn't that what I have been doing as well? I am trying to get the game moving and I think that with Hybrid's sudden unvote because Spirit was in danger of a lynch....with three votes.....he made himself a more than random target.

Folks, my accusations are only a threat to the mafia. I look at everything and try to see every angle. The only people who are afraid of this kind of insight are the mafia. I simply present my observations and it is up to everyone else to judge for themselves. Only mafia will have a problem with that.

It's the start of one. At three votes alot of people tend to start piling on that person .. hence calling it a bandwagon. They say well, why not? We gotta vote someone... Maybe he wanted his vote off before they started piling up and he wasn't around to remove his? Only he knows his reasoning but I don't feel its solid enough evidence against him to believe he is DEFINETLY a black ajah. Besides which.... how often do you STRONGLY go after someone in these games that turns out to be innocent? Alot? You so strongly go after someone that you manage to convince everyone theres NO WAY you could be wrong.. and quite often you ARE wrong.

I never said DEFINATELY Nae and most of the time, nobody listens to me anyway. This is often my biggest frustration is that I tend to make very solid observations yet no one wants to be bothered with it. I like to stir the pot on Day 1 to get some tell-tale reactions. Like most of us, I hate to be victim to Day 1 randomness and we have some evidence already.

Why are you so dang defensive for Hybrid right now? No one has accused you of being mafia.....yet. What if we lynch Hybrid and discover that he is indeed Mafia? Guess who our next lynch would likely be at that point....

Mynd, you keep using these words like "frantic" and "desperate." I unvoted Spirit simply because it was a random vote and within about two hours two more people (the next two voters) voted Spirit as well. And then you called me on the unvote for what? Because a bandwagon was taking off and I thought it was too fast even for a Day 1? I realize that Day 1 is random, but, like you said, I wanted to vote on something a little more concrete and people seemed to have blood on their minds. [glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]. I still think that your reasons for voting are a bit suspicious, but we can't risk lynching a role as important as a Power Blocker.

Hybrid, first of all unvoting me because I am the Power Blocker doesn't get you off the hook. That is exactly what a Mafia would do to look innocent. If you were not mafia, you would have questioned my reveal...but instead you were quick to unvote. You can't risk lynching me and having my reveal to be true in the coroner report.

Second, if you didn't want Day 1 to fall mercy to randomness, why did you vote Spirit in the first place? Why not do like Danya and hold off on your vote? I use words like frantic and panic because thats exactly what your actions speak of. Come on, three votes? When it takes 8 for a majority?

Third, going after Catina because she was the only other person who pointed out your mistake is a HUGE tell tale. Instead of trying to convince her otherwise, you chose to vote her. Why? She seemed to also have suspiciouns of me and Jaydena as well. You voted her because her accusations have merit and are a threat.

What would have been the reaction if we lynched Spirit and she turned out to be Mafia? You would look like the big hero or at least a lucky innocent. I believe that the reason you unvoted Spirit is because you knew EXACTLY what her alignment would turn out. You know she is innocent because you know who isn't innocent. And only the Mafia know who is and who is not innocent for sure.

Sorry bro, but you gotta go. [glow=red,2,300]Hybrid [/glow]

Dark Justice · October 21, 2008

this is what he is talking about. You are 100% sertain everyone is a mafia.. This time its Hybrid. If you get him lynched, I hope for you he is evil, If not Im coming against you for the next lynch. Reveal or not. I am just refusing to vote for anyone you are going against like that, unless I have found my own reasons.

Daetirion · October 21, 2008

4. In the event of the required majority for a lynch not being reached, i will randomly kill any player. You have been warned.

Deadline is 2.30pm BST tomorrow. Just over 17 hours remaining

Dark Justice · October 21, 2008

oh.. didnt see that one. thanx. So I still have time to think it over then. Cool...

Naeann · October 21, 2008

At the risk of saying pretty well what DJ already said... what happens when you lynch Hybrid and he is Innocent? I don't blame him for going after Cat... she seems wishy washy at best. In the same post she says she agrees with you and then seems sorry she listened to you. Though it was actually YOU listening to HER in the accusation against Hybrid. Do you two even know what game you are in? lol.

I'm chalking it up FOR NOW to her being a newbie. Verbal is a bigger fish to fry and until he can come on and give me a reason for his lack of activity then the vote stays.

Hybrid · October 21, 2008

Hybrid, first of all unvoting me because I am the Power Blocker doesn't get you off the hook. That is exactly what a Mafia would do to look innocent. If you were not mafia, you would have questioned my reveal...but instead you were quick to unvote. You can't risk lynching me and having my reveal to be true in the coroner report.

Nice WIFOM, Mynd. Unfortunately, you also left out the possibility that I'm innocent, so me unvoting you does not prove anything either way. Whether I was innocent or guilty I would unvote you.

Second, if you didn't want Day 1 to fall mercy to randomness, why did you vote Spirit in the first place? Why not do like Danya and hold off on your vote? I use words like frantic and panic because thats exactly what your actions speak of. Come on, three votes? When it takes 8 for a majority?

I voted at random to start the game running. If no one voted at random, nothing would happen. I am not one to hold off on my vote. Voting is the best way to gauge people's reactions. In reference to the three votes, this is my third time explaining my reasons. I unvoted Spirit not because of the number of votes, but because of the speed of the votes. I wanted to cut off the bandwagon that was occurring, since we still had time to reach a majority. Speed lynches = bad, unless you are mafia.

Third, going after Catina because she was the only other person who pointed out your mistake is a HUGE tell tale. Instead of trying to convince her otherwise, you chose to vote her. Why? She seemed to also have suspiciouns of me and Jaydena as well. You voted her because her accusations have merit and are a threat.

Uh, no. I voted Catina because she originally pointed the finger at me. Then when you took off, she is "agreeing with Myndrunner" as if setting you up for a potential scapegoat when I turn out innocent. I could try to convince everyone of my innocence, but that would be impossible. Because aside from getting an innocent reading on a Finder (which is still not a 100% guarantee) there is no way to do so.

What would have been the reaction if we lynched Spirit and she turned out to be Mafia? You would look like the big hero or at least a lucky innocent.

Wrong. I would be lucky, not innocent. If I vote for someone randomly, I'm not going to keep that vote on for a lynch unless we have no more possibilities or that person reacted suspiciously to my random vote.

I believe that the reason you unvoted Spirit is because you knew EXACTLY what her alignment would turn out. You know she is innocent because you know who isn't innocent. And only the Mafia know who is and who is not innocent for sure.

Mynd, your entire theory of my guilt hinges on me knowing Spirit's alignment. This reasoning is ridiculous. If I was mafia, I would not back out on an innocent's lynch because I knew that she was innocent. The whole point is for the mafia to misguide the lynches onto innocents.

Also, no one is 100% in voting mafia. Just because you lead a lynch on an innocent does not mean you are guilty, even if you are very sure of that innocent's guilt. If you are reasonably certain of someone's guilt (and I wasn't with Spirit, it was a random vote, as I keep telling you) then you can't be blamed for not knowing to a certainty their alignment.

You are getting more and more suspicious to me. Frankly, reveal or not, I am thinking of revoting you.

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

this is what he is talking about. You are 100% sertain everyone is a mafia.. This time its Hybrid. If you get him lynched, I hope for you he is evil, If not Im coming against you for the next lynch. Reveal or not. I am just refusing to vote for anyone you are going against like that, unless I have found my own reasons.

So, you are not voting for Hybrid because you don't like my approach? You can't have it both ways here, DJ. In one post, you claim to hate how random Day 1 is and how you wish there was more to go on. I present you with a possible course of action and you get mad at me for this? You would rather not vote Hybrid even if I am right just because of my arguement? I'm not mad or anything, I just don't get your stance. I'm not 100% at all, but we need to vote someone and Hybrid seems the most likely because of his actions.

Would you rather I just sit back and cast an aimless random vote and let our fate be determined by the roll of the dice? Sorry, but I do not have the Dark One's luck like some people.

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

At the risk of saying pretty well what DJ already said... what happens when you lynch Hybrid and he is Innocent? I don't blame him for going after Cat... she seems wishy washy at best. In the same post she says she agrees with you and then seems sorry she listened to you. Though it was actually YOU listening to HER in the accusation against Hybrid. Do you two even know what game you are in? lol.

I'm chalking it up FOR NOW to her being a newbie. Verbal is a bigger fish to fry and until he can come on and give me a reason for his lack of activity then the vote stays.

I cannot be the only one who doesn't see this post as incriminating. I think Nae works for Fox News or something, the spin is remarkable. How is Verbal a bigger fish to fry simply because he hasn't been online? You might as well come out and say it...."Let's go after an inactive because they never move the game forward."

Naeann · October 21, 2008

Ok... Let's go after the inactives because they never move the game foward.

Im so sick and tired of lynching off active players in the first two or three days and then sitting there in total frigging boredom because theres maybe one or two active players trying to prod the inactives into action and the game drags. Granted Verbal is normally VERY active in these games so I'd be easily swayed to vote for one of them that always sign up for the games and then disappear once they start.

I'm not voting for Hybrid and your reasoning for voting him is mild at best. Go ahead and lynch him but when he comes up innocent you are likely to be fried.

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

I voted at random to start the game running. If no one voted at random, nothing would happen. I am not one to hold off on my vote. Voting is the best way to gauge people's reactions. In reference to the three votes, this is my third time explaining my reasons. I unvoted Spirit not because of the number of votes, but because of the speed of the votes. I wanted to cut off the bandwagon that was occurring, since we still had time to reach a majority. Speed lynches = bad, unless you are mafia.

Also, no one is 100% in voting mafia. Just because you lead a lynch on an innocent does not mean you are guilty, even if you are very sure of that innocent's guilt. If you are reasonably certain of someone's guilt (and I wasn't with Spirit, it was a random vote, as I keep telling you) then you can't be blamed for not knowing to a certainty their alignment.

If the second bold statement is true, then why worry about the lynch on Spirit at all? If it was truly random, Hybrid had nothing to worry about. At this point, [glow=red,2,300]Hybrid[/glow] remains the best candidate to be lynched. If he turns up as innocent, then you will likely come after me. If he turns up mafia, who do you think we should go after next?

In a completely unrelated topic, I find Naeann's relentless defense of Hybrid very incriminating.

Naeann · October 21, 2008

Use some of that frazzlebrained logic of yours to realize I'm too seasoned a player to so boldy defend a fellow mafia.

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

How can you be 100% sure he isn't mafia?

MsDanya · October 21, 2008

Because Nae can only be sure of Hybrids guilt if she's MAfia herself. I doubt Nae is MAfia, but it could be a gambit of course.

Verbal32 · October 21, 2008

Ok, I've been busy at work so I haven't been able to check the thread today. Yes, I'm usually active starting on Day 1, but this is a mild exception.

I'm about to leave work, but I'll post once I get home with some thoughts after reading through the thread so far.

Hybrid · October 21, 2008

I voted at random to start the game running. If no one voted at random, nothing would happen. I am not one to hold off on my vote. Voting is the best way to gauge people's reactions. In reference to the three votes, this is my third time explaining my reasons. I unvoted Spirit not because of the number of votes, but because of the speed of the votes. I wanted to cut off the bandwagon that was occurring, since we still had time to reach a majority. Speed lynches = bad, unless you are mafia.

Also, no one is 100% in voting mafia. Just because you lead a lynch on an innocent does not mean you are guilty, even if you are very sure of that innocent's guilt. If you are reasonably certain of someone's guilt (and I wasn't with Spirit, it was a random vote, as I keep telling you) then you can't be blamed for not knowing to a certainty their alignment.

If the second bold statement is true, then why worry about the lynch on Spirit at all? If it was truly random, Hybrid had nothing to worry about.

I was worried not about lynching Spirit but at the way the lynch was taking off. A fast lynch gains us very little information. I was not worried whether Spirit was innocent or mafia, because yes it was a random vote. The fact that people started piling 'em on after me was worrying, so I unvoted. We need to get a majority, but we don't need to get it that fast with so little information or reason.

Verbal32 · October 21, 2008

.....and I'm back.

As far as Mynd's statement about not wanting Day 1 to be random, he is partially right. Right because you can still get inclinations and feelings based on statements, arguments, and activity. HOWEVER, this is only partially right. The reason is beause without lynches and NKs, you can't take what somebody said previously and compare it to voting patterns, who got NKed when, etc. Because of that, Day 1 is inherently based on gut feelings and "randomness". I dislike gut feelings, so I usually do not vote on Day 1 either, similar to Danya.

We can't really make much of Hybrid and Mynd's conversation today, but we DEFINITELY can't vote for Mynd after his reveal. That being said, I don't necessarily think that means we should jump on Hybrid either. And Mynd....while I do think you wouldn't false reveal something like that on Day 1, you should avoid statements like this:

In a completely unrelated topic, I find Naeann's relentless defense of Hybrid very incriminating.

I don't know why you are saying it is an unrelated topic, because you are driving hard at both Hybrid and Nae right now. If Hybrid is innocent, then you paint yourself into a corner with accusations.

Myndrunner · October 21, 2008

Hopefully, most of you got the sarcasm in that statement. Instead of acknowledging that Hybrid's unvoting was even remotely suspicious, Naeann has come to his defense in every case. At no point does she even remotely acknowledge that Hybrid's unvoting actions could be questionable. She has already made up her mind what she believes before hearing the arguement.....like a true Democrat or Republican.

Here, there is only one political party and that is the Mafia party. In response to her suggestion that I am to be lynched if Hybrid turns out to be innocent, I was suggesting that we lynch Naeann if he turns out to be mafia. After all, she seems 100% convinced of his innocence.

As far as the randomness, I agree with Verbal. The only players who can be 100% sure of anything are the Mafia, like Danya has pointed out. Before all of this interaction, our lynch would have been just random....but now, lynching [glow=red,2,300]Hybrid[/glow] will give us one of two outcomes. Either he is innocent and we read into everyone who was arguing to lynch him, or he turns up mafia, and that reveals a lot about his supporters. (aka. Naeann)

I speak the truth about my reveal, I am the White Ajah Power Blocker and before you ask, I am innocent and win with the innocent. I am totally open to anyone elses suggestion, but as I have said, voting Verbal because he hasn't been online is the classic mafia ploy.

"Vote an inactive because they give the least information." .......sound familiar?

White Tower Mafia - Game Over

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