Mat Most Gallant?

[sillyman]

It is a lot easier to understand Rands reluctance to accept the burden that comes with the title Dragon Reborn, for his whole life he has been told that channeling men were almost as bad as the dark one, let alone the fact that he will break the world afresh. "What kind of need would be great enough that we'd want the Dragon to save us from it? As well ask for help from the Dark One."

 

Mat on the other hand, only has to watch his friends back yet he runs from the possibility (slightly exadurated)

 

btw the comparison with robin hood is how iv always seen Mat, especially Cary Elwes portrayal in Men in Tights. Checky, whitty and rougish.

[trakand_01]

And he is unfalteringly loyal when he makes up his mind.

 

I love the fact that although he calls himself 'Not a bloody lord' cauthon, he couldnt make himself set Nalesean's man free when Nalesean was pulled to shreds by the Gholam. That's factually incorrect, I think he had his throat ripped out. Anyway, he didnt want ONE man, let alone two but now he has Nerim and the other guy because he couldnt bring himself to make them unemployed...

 

Same as he's also trying to keep the seanchan princess, her 'servant', an ex-aes sedai, three real aes sedai, three sul'dam, a fugitive seanchan, her forbidden lover, the panarch of amadicia and a boy he picked up on the street safe in a travelling circus...

[trakand_01]

btw the comparison with robin hood is how iv always seen Mat, especially Cary Elwes portrayal in Men in Tights. Checky, whitty and rougish.

 

THAT's why we didnt see the moment of Couladin's downfall!! He fell in a puddle, and writhed around on his back screaming "'Elp me! 'Elp me! I can't swim!"

 

After all, they are men in tights. TIGHT tights  :D

[sillyman]

lol well either that or he was dragged away by a cackling wise one with a penchant boastful fools.

[trakand_01]

lol, the possibilities are endless...

[Guest The Thin Inn Keeper]

Rand forced himself to become that to deal with situations that ran against his moral code (hanging and manipulating friends) im sure given a choice Rand would chose to return to the care free shepherd he once was.

That's pragamatism, not gallantry. It's an acceptance of fate and a wistful recollection of the past. Not gallantry.

His choice to not seek revenge on the white tower after their kidnapping of him shows his gallantry.  He could easily crush the WT or just Elida for that matter with the Chedoen Kal (spellings wrong), his army of Asha'men and Aiel yet he places his enmity aside, despite their poor treatment of him a fact remarked on by several characters at the time, for the greater good.  His choice not to pursue Galina and Co but aid the battle efforts further exemplifies this.

Again, pragmatism. Not gallantry.

[safwd]

When he was with Moiraine, he fought for the same reasons Rand fought. He must. No matter who he is bonded to, he is an honor-bound Malkieri, and he cannot just abandon his charge. He will fight to defend them. Since losing Moiraine, he's also been struggling with his desire to just die. He knows that only action will help, so he fights to stave off the suicidal tendencies.

 

I disagree a little with what you said. Lan fought beside Moiraine due to his honor and being bonded. He Still fights for honor, thus riding to the Gap and raising an army of Malkieri but he also fights for love. And i dont think he has ever done that before. He wanted to protect Moiraine because he was her warder and knew that she served the light, he wants to protect Nyneave simply because he wants to protect her.

 

But Mat... Mat (pre-Tuon) didnt really value his own life that much.

 

Says who? I'd say out of everyone on the list, he valued his own life the most. He was always thinking about how to get away from the battles. How to avoid fighting. But duty bound him to his actions. Mat certainly tried to convince himself many times that Rand didn't need him. That was seen just after Rand took the Stone and Mat was trying to leave, but something kept him there. That's the ta'veren pull. He acknowledges his own importance at the very least subconsciously. You say he doesn't have to fight, and that's all well and true. But neither does Rand. Neither does Lan. Neither does Perrin. They all have the same motivations, just to different degrees. Mat knows that he must.

True, but the entire time he is talking about finding a way out of a battle he is doing something that is completely not getting him out of a battle. I believe Mat really REALLY wants to care about his own skin more then anyone else, he just cant.

 

You say that story Siuan said of Mat, and I believe it's true of all of the people you mentioned. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Galad, Gawyn, and Lan would ALL continue to rush into a burning building so long as there was a child in there to save. They would do so because at that moment, they must. It is the most important thing in the world to them at that point in time, and nothing else matters because it is the right thing to do.

Again i agree that they all would do it. But i can also guarentee that if you asked them all if they would do it all would say yes Except Mat who would still be saying he wouldnt while pulling out the last child.

[Roxinos]

Please learn to use the quotes more effectively. You can do multiple quotes of multiple people.

 

I disagree a little with what you said. Lan fought beside Moiraine due to his honor and being bonded. He Still fights for honor, thus riding to the Gap and raising an army of Malkieri but he also fights for love. And i dont think he has ever done that before. He wanted to protect Moiraine because he was her warder and knew that she served the light, he wants to protect Nyneave simply because he wants to protect her.

 

You're not disagreeing with me. I never mentioned anything about his feelings for Nynaeve. I was merely trying to balance out the topic poster's bias in favor of love rather than any other motivation Lan might have.

 

True, but the entire time he is talking about finding a way out of a battle he is doing something that is completely not getting him out of a battle. I believe Mat really REALLY wants to care about his own skin more then anyone else, he just cant.

 

So? He has the same personality traits that every other character mentioned has which allows him to do what he must do. None of the ones mentioned (except Lan) want to do what they must. All of them would probably love to have a way out of it just as Mat wants. They just don't delay what must be done by pining for a way out.

 

Again i agree that they all would do it. But i can also guarentee that if you asked them all if they would do it all would say yes Except Mat who would still be saying he wouldnt while pulling out the last child.

 

I don't think he'd ever say that. Mat's very self-conscious, but he wouldn't just say, "I'd let a kid die if it meant saving my own skin." Nothing about his personality and the things he's ever said suggests that he would say something so callous. Words give insight into the character of a person, true. But he's not an uncaring, heartless bastard and he never comes off that way to anyone. He comes off as a person who would love to find a way out. But again, Mat knows what must be done, and while he might grumble and complain the whole way, he'll does what must be done.

[safwd]

I don't think he'd ever say that. Mat's very self-conscious, but he wouldn't just say, "I'd let a kid die if it meant saving my own skin." Nothing about his personality and the things he's ever said suggests that he would say something so callous. Words give insight into the character of a person, true. But he's not an uncaring, heartless bastard and he never comes off that way to anyone. He comes off as a person who would love to find a way out. But again, Mat knows what must be done, and while he might grumble and complain the whole way, he'll does what must be done.

 

Im not saying he would say something like that in a heartless way, far from it.

But if you asked Mat (again my thinking) "Would you run into a burning building to save someone?" Mat would reply "RUN into a burning building, do i look crazy!" And he would then Run into the burning building. And he has said things things like this, though i dont think he was being callous. I remember a number of times he talked about how he was not going to run down and risk his neck pulling a certain 3 girls necks off the block. Then he does just that.

Mat talks the best game about not wanting to be a hero and not wanting to put himself in harms way. He then runs off being Heroic and putting himself in harms way.

Thats what makes his character so great. Lan and Rand really do it because they have to. Perrin sees no other way. Mat yells, screams, tells people their crazy, and the whole time doing hes stuff that would probably make the other stop and think about if it is really a good idea or not.

 

Sorry about the lack of quoting knowledge. I would tell you that i will work on it but it would most likely be a lie.

[Roxinos]

But if you asked Mat (again my thinking) "Would you run into a burning building to save someone?" Mat would reply "RUN into a burning building, do i look crazy!" And he would then Run into the burning building. And he has said things things like this, though i dont think he was being callous. I remember a number of times he talked about how he was not going to run down and risk his neck pulling a certain 3 girls necks off the block. Then he does just that.

 

There's a faulty comparison there.

 

Running into a burning building is obviously dangerous and the potential for death is high. Going to help old friends in a bad situation is risky, but a vague kind of risk. Not at all equivalent to a burning building.

 

As for the way the question is posed, I didn't think of posing it that way. I could imagine him saying something akin to that. However, I think it depends more on how you pose the question. If you emphasize the burning building, he might be more prone to the answer you said he'd give. If you emphasize the person in the burning building, I think his answer might vary.

 

Mat talks the best game about not wanting to be a hero and not wanting to put himself in harms way. He then runs off being Heroic and putting himself in harms way.

Thats what makes his character so great. Lan and Rand really do it because they have to. Perrin sees no other way.

 

I'm not denying any of that. What I'm denying is how that makes him any better than Rand or Lan or Perrin or any of the others mentioned in terms of general "gallantry." They all do what they must. The others simply do not get their duties clouded with thoughts of running or how to avoid the situations. They know what they need to do, don't bitch about it, and simply do it.

 

Mat yells, screams, tells people their crazy, and the whole time doing hes stuff that would probably make the other stop and think about if it is really a good idea or not.

 

What? I highly doubt any of the things Mat has done would cause a moment of hesitation in any of the others mentioned. If Lan were ordered to protect the three girls as Mat was, he would have done it. Mat complained the whole way. If Rand had to. He'd complain, but only because he has much more important things to do. Perrin has proven that he will do whatever it takes for what's important to him. And barring Faile, his duty is the most important thing to him. Galad wouldn't hesitate if he thought it was the right thing to do. I think out of the ones listed, Gawyn is the one who would probably hesitate the most. But he is more human than the others.

 

Name one thing Mat has done that is comparable to anything Rand and Lan have done.

 

Mat is a great character. Very well rounded with humor and seriousness all bound into one package. He's also provided with plenty of excellent foils to emphasize and play off his strengths, but it is his flaws which make him the excellent character he is.