Old Cully

[merlinspetrock]

Is that Noal? Or is he just the leader of a bunch of dark friends in Ebou Dar? Im not debating this, just need an answer, I was never sure because you meet Old Cully in book 7, and then later on you meet Noal.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Is that Noal? Or is he just the leader of a bunch of dark friends in Ebou Dar? Im not debating this' date=' just need an answer, I was never sure because you meet Old Cully in book 7, and then later on you meet Noal.[/quote']

 

My opinion is that Old Cully is not Noal. The description that we get for Cully is not the same. Mat actually first meets Noal well before he is attacked by the Gholam. When he follows Shiane to Charidin's residence.

[mightisright]

What do you think about Noal saying he could off Julian's chick if Mat gave him the go ahead? I guess Suian suggest the same thing to Egwene, but I hate to see good guy characters talk about murder. Noal is awsome but he must have a hard exterior to him. That or still be tainted from Ishmael's compulsion type stuff thingy.

 

opps sorry for derailing topic. Ya i think Noal is not Cully but if a darker side ever shows up it would make you wonder.

[Guest cwestervelt]

What do you think about Noal saying he could off Julian's chick if Mat gave him the go ahead? I guess Suian suggest the same thing to Egwene' date=' but I hate to see good guy characters talk about murder. Noal is awsome but he must have a hard exterior to him. That or still be tainted from Ishmael's compulsion type stuff thingy.

 

opps sorry for derailing topic. Ya i think Noal is not Cully but if a darker side ever shows up it would make you wonder.[/quote']

 

But assassination is such a time honored tradition. :cry:

 

Seriously though, I doubt there is a single civilization that hasn't employed it, real world or WoT. That includes civilizations that are traditionally considered to be the good guys. The more medieval you get, the more commonplace.

[Inara]

But assassination is such a time honored tradition.

 

Seriously though, I doubt there is a single civilization that hasn't employed it, real world or WoT. That includes civilizations that are traditionally considered to be the good guys. The more medieval you get, the more

even today...

 

yeah, noel isnt cully, he's jaim farstrider imo

the question is...is cully anyone else? or just his own super bad self...

[Kaznen]

Old Cully was one of the beggars who attacked Mat in CoS.

[algspkr]

I would like to know what happened to old Cully, but I do not think he is Noal.

[Inara]

i know who he is and what he did, but i was asking for speculation on an alias

[dalic]

It's difficult to recall but wasn't Old Cully a middle to high ranking dark friend who happened to be a beggar.

[Kaznen]

I would like to know what happened to old Cully' date=' but I do not think he is Noal.[/quote']

 

He most likely died when his group attacked Mat.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It's difficult to recall but wasn't Old Cully a middle to high ranking dark friend who happened to be a beggar.

 

More high than middle. Lady Shaine appears to be quite high up, and even she would jump if Old Cully said hop.

 

I'm not as convinced as some of the others that Old Cully was a direct participant in the attack on Mat. What we were told about him puts him high enough that he wouldn't be doing the grunt work himself.

[Inara]

i was under the impression that old cully was about as high as a plain ol' darkfriend can go. a nice contrast to his apparent social situation.

[rd2000]

Is that Noal? Or is he just the leader of a bunch of dark friends in Ebou Dar? Im not debating this' date=' just need an answer, I was never sure because you meet Old Cully in book 7, and then later on you meet Noal.[/quote']

 

My opinion is that Old Cully is not Noal. The description that we get for Cully is not the same. Mat actually first meets Noal well before he is attacked by the Gholam. When he follows Shiane to Charidin's residence.

 

I went back and reread that chapter(White Plumes, ch 14, A Crown of Swords) And that was definately not Noal. The looks are similar to Noal, but when Mat speaks to the old man, he seems familiar to him. After a few seconds, he realized that he had seen the old man with Lady Shiane at the horse races. That infers the old man Mat spoke to is actually Old Cully, not Noal.

[Luckers]

It has been suggested that he is Graendal's old man darkfriend. This would put him in a position of power... though we've never seen him to be far from Graendal.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It has been suggested that he is Graendal's old man darkfriend. This would put him in a position of power... though we've never seen him to be far from Graendal.

 

I don't hold to the theory myself, but I've seen it suggested numerous times that Noal is Graendal's old man. I've never noticed anyone suggesting Old Cully is him though.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Is that Noal? Or is he just the leader of a bunch of dark friends in Ebou Dar? Im not debating this' date=' just need an answer, I was never sure because you meet Old Cully in book 7, and then later on you meet Noal.[/quote']

 

My opinion is that Old Cully is not Noal. The description that we get for Cully is not the same. Mat actually first meets Noal well before he is attacked by the Gholam. When he follows Shiane to Charidin's residence.

 

I went back and reread that chapter(White Plumes, ch 14, A Crown of Swords) And that was definately not Noal. The looks are similar to Noal, but when Mat speaks to the old man, he seems familiar to him. After a few seconds, he realized that he had seen the old man with Lady Shiane at the horse races. That infers the old man Mat spoke to is actually Old Cully, not Noal.

 

Mat saw him near Lady Shiane at the race track. That doesn't meen they were together. It is more likely that he was following.

 

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.2_rest-chars/2.2.3_barrel-man.html

Check out the comparison to Noal and the Old Man on the barrel. More importantly is point 5 from the link above:

Old Cully - One of the local DFs is a murderous old beggar named Old Cully, and it's been suggested that this Old Cully and the barrel man are one and the same. This is not possible. Carridin knows Old Cully by sight, yet when he sees the barrel man in [ACOS: 15, Insects, 286] standing next to Mat, he doesn't recognize him. Another reason why the barrel man can't be Old Cully: Carridin describes Old Cully as having one eye and no teeth [ACOS: 15, Insects, 284]. But when Mat sees Noal in [ACOS: 14, White Plumes, 282]: "...he grinned, showing gaps in his teeth". There is no mention of him missing an eye, either.

 

 

Edit: I fixed the URL. Somehow I copy and pasted the wrong web address in earlier.

[rd2000]

So, the man that Matt saw with Lady Shiane, and spoke to outside Carridan's palace was neither Noal or Old Cully.

[Guest cwestervelt]

So' date=' the man that Matt saw with Lady Shiane, and spoke to outside Carridan's palace was neither Noal or Old Cully.[/quote']

 

Mat, never say him with Lady Shiane. He say him near Lady Shiane.

 

What makes you so adamant that he wasn't Noal? All evidence, including description match Noal.

[Guest cwestervelt]

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.2_rest-chars/2.2.3_barrel-man.html

 

That is the URL I meant to post earlier. I fixed my original post and am including this here for those that got confused by the other one. :oops:

[rd2000]

So' date=' the man that Matt saw with Lady Shiane, and spoke to outside Carridan's palace was neither Noal or Old Cully.[/quote']

 

Mat, never say him with Lady Shiane. He say him near Lady Shiane.

 

What makes you so adamant that he wasn't Noal? All evidence, including description match Noal.

 

Because Mat met Noal a short time later. Mat's POV would have indicated that when Noal saved him from the gholam, he would have remembered him from being "near" lady Shiane at the racetrack and also later speaking to him outside Carridin's palace. Instead, Mat's POV indicates that when he tussled with the Gholam in the alley, was also the first time he met Noal.

[Luckers]

It has been suggested that he is Graendal's old man darkfriend. This would put him in a position of power... though we've never seen him to be far from Graendal.

 

I don't hold to the theory myself' date=' but I've seen it suggested numerous times that Noal is Graendal's old man. I've never noticed anyone suggesting Old Cully is him though.[/quote']

 

I originally saw it suggested that all three were the same person--specifically Jain Farstrider. I never really thought that Jain or Noal (who are the same person, i believe) were either Old Cully or Graendal's Old Man, but it occured to me that they might be one and the same... i dont think so now though, but meh, thought id throw it out there.

[Guest cwestervelt]

So' date=' the man that Matt saw with Lady Shiane, and spoke to outside Carridan's palace was neither Noal or Old Cully.[/quote']

 

Mat, never say him with Lady Shiane. He say him near Lady Shiane.

 

What makes you so adamant that he wasn't Noal? All evidence, including description match Noal.

 

Because Mat met Noal a short time later. Mat's POV would have indicated that when Noal saved him from the gholam, he would have remembered him from being "near" lady Shiane at the racetrack and also later speaking to him outside Carridin's palace. Instead, Mat's POV indicates that when he tussled with the Gholam in the alley, was also the first time he met Noal.

 

Don't forget, Mat is constantly complaining that he can't seperate his own memories from those of other people. In addition to all the faces in the crowd of people he as met, he has a lot of faces of people he never met floating around in his head without being able to tell who is who. Mat was also more focused on Lady Shiane, and eventually Carridin's palace to pay much attention to other people he saw.

[rd2000]

But Mat DID remember his fleeting glimpse of the old man at the race track. That memory was reinforced (and logically, a little of his suspicion) later by seing the same person hanging around outside Carridin's palace. RJ has not shown Mat to forget anything that has happened thus far in ANY of the books, so why do you assume he has forgotten TWO occasions of seeing the old man?

[Guest cwestervelt]

It isn't just me who believes the two to be the same. I arrived at that conclusion on my one, but it appears to be a generally accepted belief. There isn't any evidence to support a third old man in Ebou Dar, and no reason to have pointed him out at the race track if we wouldn't see him later.

 

Mat continually says how he cannot seperate the memories. Also, prior to the attack by the Gholam, Mat was focussed on other issues when he met Noal. It wasn't until after the Gholam attack that Mat truly established a picture of Noal in his mind.