Clarification on Pri,Sec, and Ter weapon forms

[Sieve]

I am trying to lockdown Perivar's weapon choices for his Final Steps.  My question is that his primary form is bastard sword and shield.  The shield is defensive only, no shield spike, only used to block or stun.  There will be times when his shield is not used at all so he will just be wielding the hand and a half sword. 

 

So his breakdown would be like this:

 

Pri: Sword and Shield

 

Sec: Lance and Shield

 

Ter: Horsebow

 

In each case the shield is not offensive, so I do not have it listed as a secondary form by itself.  Is this an acceptable breakdown? 

[Jehaine]

Lance and shield? Don't you mean spear? A lance seems a tad too long and heavy to be able to wield along with a shield, the short versions being 9 feet long already...

 

Anyway, other than that i don't have any real objections. Anyone else want to chip in? ^^

[Sieve]

Lance and shield? Don't you mean spear? A lance seems a tad too long and heavy to be able to wield along with a shield, the short versions being 9 feet long already...

 

 

Sorry I should have clarified, this form is only when mounted.

[Talavin]

Hm, I was waiting for Mat to get this. I remember being mentioned in passing that shield users should have their shield as a secondary weapon, but I don't think that ever became official. Sorry can't really give you a yes or no for this one. ;)

[Visar Falmaien]

I know I don't make the calls on this, but I think that sounds ok to me.  Normally a shield wouldn't be used with a weapon meant more for two-handed use (bastard sword, and probably the lance too), but it could be, especially on a horse.  And when you don't have the shield available, you can use the lance or sword two handed as you said.  Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

As to the shield being listed, I don't think it should necessarily count, since it is not usually used as a weapon in and of itself, it is a protective weapon usually paired with another weapon.

 

My (planned) weapon breakdown is similar, going for a well rounded system:

 

sword and buckler (when available or appropriate)

dagger (and associated grappling techniques)

lance (when available or appropriate)

 

I'm not sure which will be my primary though.  In (prepared) battle, the first melee weapon to be used(i.e. primary) would be the lance because of its reach, and the sword (and buckler if available) would be secondary when the lance failed, and so on until the dagger. But there are times when a lance isn't around or isn't appropriate to use, and then the sword would probably be primary as it can be used in most situations (with or without buckler), and is the most versatile and well-rounded of the weapons because of its medium melee range.  But Visar won't be amazing at swords or spears (for a long while at least); his best weapon skill-wise will probably be the dagger, which would be his primary in that sense.  So all three of my weapons could be "primary" in one sense or another, hence some of my confusion as to which would be which.  Since secondary and tertiary implies that the other weapons are "less important", and I do not intend for that to be the case.

 

so which primary?

1. primary: the first weapon you use in battle (most likely a ranged weapon, pole-arm, or greatsword)

2. primary: the weapon you'd use most often in a wide range of violent situations, or train the most in (most likely a kind of sword or similar weapon)

3. primary: the weapon you are/will be most skilled at (could be anything)

 

I'd probably go for primary in the second choice, but I think it can be flexible; anyone can pick which kind of primary they mean as far as I'm concerned. I don't think everyone's primary necessarily has to be a sword or similar medium range close weapon, either.

[Jehaine]

Yup, that was for the Sword and Shield style (Vadin M'taal) though, and since Sieve just mentioned he wasn't using his shield offensively i assumed he didn't follow the Path either.

 

...Now that you mention it though, that little detail i know i put in when i submitted has been left out in the official version o.O

 

-----

 

Anyway, for Melenis:

 

Primary: Naginata / Ashanderei.

Secondary: Hand to hand.

Tertiary: None. Yes, this is deliberate.

[Talavin]

Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary don't imply which weapon is more important, merely which weapon you have the most skill with. The way it works (until you get to really high WS) is that you have your weaponscore that you use every day- that is your weapon score for your primary weapon. Your secondary weapon you are less skilled in, so you take your weapon score and subtract two WS; your tertiary WS is the weapon you use, but are least skilled in, so you subtract four WS. Your primary weapon is a combination of what you train the most in as well as what you are most skilled in (the two are usually the same, but in some occasions differ). Your primary doesn't have to be a sword or midranged weapon- if your character is most skilled with a spear, that's their primary.

 

As for the shield issue, unless Mat says otherwise I think that needs to be discussed by the staff later on when Eqwina comes back.

[Sieve]

I know I don't make the calls on this, but I think that sounds ok to me.  Normally a shield wouldn't be used with a weapon meant more for two-handed use (bastard sword, and probably the lance too), but it could be, especially on a horse.  And when you don't have the shield available, you can use the lance or sword two handed as you said.  Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

 

 

Just for clarification, I'm not splitting hairs.

 

I know light calvary used lighter polearms more like a spear so they didn't use a shield especially after the black powder came into play.  Lance and shield was very common in the medieval times with heavily armored men at arms and knights, once the lance became entangled or the combat became too close knit for its effective use it was disgarded and then they took up their swords.  Either way a lance was never a two-handed weapon.

 

As to the bastard or hand and a half sword it is not primarily a two-handed weapon though it can be used as that, it is primarily single-handed.  A Bastard sword is a multi-purpose weapon, not as fast as a longsword and not as heavy hitting as a two-handed sword.  Perivar is a rather large man so it seems to suit him. 

 

Hope that all makes sense.

[Matalina]

Okay here is my take on it:

 

Shield are not listed as primary/secondary/teritary weapons at alll.  It's an armorment of choice reguardless of whether or not you use it offensively or defensively.

 

However if you say your primary weapon is sword and shield (or whatever weapon and shield) then if you do not have your shield with you, your sword drops to your secondary skill level (even if it's not your secondary weapon).  This also goes for if you use two weapons.  If you lose one weapon your weapon score becomes your secondary skill reguardess of your weapon choice.  This is just your skill rating not your weapons of choice.

 

If you are in the paths that use shield and a weapon or two weapons then it is not an option as to whether or not you can use the above statements they are true no matter what.  So if you don't have  your shield then your skill is two lower than your normal weapon score with it.

 

I hope that made sense.

 

Your weapons skill scores are what you are proficient with.  not the order of use.  Generally they are what you prefer to fight with, and what you will most likely use in battle when it gets down and dirty.

 

I didn't read everything so if I missed a question just ask again.

 

Mat

[Quisalas Selene]

I have my primary weapon listed as the katana, primarily trained in two handed, but he can wield it in either hand, both with or without a shield, but because those aren't his preferred, katana with both hands is his primary.  I didn't list the single-handed or the shield use, but like Mat said, if he were fighting with a shield, he wouldn't be as good at it as he would two-handed.

[Sieve]

 

However if you say your primary weapon is sword and shield (or whatever weapon and shield) then if you do not have your shield with you, your sword drops to your secondary skill level (even if it's not your secondary weapon).  This also goes for if you use two weapons.  If you lose one weapon your weapon score becomes your secondary skill reguardess of your weapon choice.  This is just your skill rating not your weapons of choice.

 

 

That makes sense, piggybacking off of what QS said let me ask this.  Assume that I used my sword primarily by itself.  On the occassions when I decide to use it with a shield it would simply lower my WS by 2, is that right?

[Jehaine]

Yup, it'd count as a Secondary then.

 

Had your sword be secondary, it'd count as being tertiary at another 2 WS loss. Basically, since you'd be using your weapon in a way you aren't familiar with you 'drop down a tier'.

 

If i understood correctly myself, anyway ^^;

[Quisalas Selene]

That's how I understood it too.  Let's pretend my WS is 8 (it's not yet)

 

Sword two-hands - 8

Sword one handed - 6

Sword with shield - Would this be 6 since it's my primary used in a different way, or 4, since it's two variables?

 

Bow - 6

 

Mace - 4

Mace with shield - 2

 

That look about right?

[Matalina]

That looks about right, but I wouldn't go so far as sword with shield as a 4 though.  The numbers are just for a guideline, and I don't think we need to get that specific.  As long as you know you aren't as skilled with it in the other variations that's fine with me.

 

We don't have to get so number specific but you are getting the point of it.

 

Mat

[Quisalas Selene]

Gotcha.  All good to know. :)

[Jehaine]

It's WS 6 imo, since it's a variation of a primary. Same with sword one-handed btw, there's no reason to specifically mention it since you have sword two-handed listed as Primary.

 

At WS 8 for swords two-handed, both swords one-handed and sword-and-shield would be variations, and both would be at WS 6 for you ^^;