WOT negative feedback

[RAND AL THOR]

It isn't fair to rush the writer. He needs time to form the ideas and write a book that doesn't disappoint his readers. We can't fault RJ on that. I have decided never to read a series unless all the books are out (exception would be if only the last installment is yet to come). I tear my hair out waiting (as I am currently doing for AMOL) but the writer needs time. He has a personal life too, ya know. ;)

 

The cut-off point does seem to be book 3 for most people. We are all WOT freaks here so we have to look at how other more general readers of WOT look upon the series.

 

The Aiel part of Book 4 was pretty awful to me the first time I read it. I understood very little about what happened in Rhuidean. After several re-reads and also after completing the series, I like it much more and for me the part where the series started to become a little less satisfying is after book 6.

 

I must say something here. Did any of you feel a loss of connection with the series later in the books? I can state it in no other way. With the introduction of a vast number of characters, cadsuane, nalsean, talmanes, dozens of Aes Sedai whose names are hard to keep track of, several Far Dareis Mai who names can also become confusing etc....I somewhat lost the emotional link I had with WOT in books 8/9/10/11. The first 3 books were heavily from Rand's POV. I think that must be it. When the POV shifts so frequently, I really started to lose my 'mental or physichological' connection with the books. Most people reading this are going to think I am mad. lol.

But I don't hear my past life in my head. ;D Though I wish I did.

[Bob T Dwarf]

By the time he'd gotten through the first 5 books or so, Jordan had sounded all of his basic themes, and touched on the important ones more than once.

 

Other than complicate the storyline, all books 6-10 did ( from my viewpoint ) was beat all those horses to death.  And dig a few of 'em up and beat them some more.

 

It's become kinda like running a marathon for me.  I've hit the wall, and all I can do now is push through the pain and make it to the finish line.

 

I don't even have very high expectations for book 12.  Realistically, I can't think of anything anybody could write that would live up to 11 books and 20 years worth of build-up.

[bad company]

I think it deviated from the main characters too much, with so much focus on the peripheral you lose focus of main quest of the central characters

[RAND AL THOR]

I think it deviated from the main characters too much, with so much focus on the peripheral you lose focus of main quest of the central characters

 

Correct. Unfortunately we can't fault RJ for that. WOT expanded such that other POV's were needed. He could no longer stay completely focused on R/M/P.

 

I have a strong suspicion that there is little Rand in the last 2 books just to make sure that his mind is not revealed to us. After all, we see his thought in his POV and he must have some idea about what to do at TG. The Dragon Reborn obviously has to think of TG every once in a while. And it would kill the suspense if we found out too soon.

 

That Finn matter is still suspicious though. Since entering the doorframe, we have had SO many Rand POVs but he NEVER once thought about the answers that the Finns gave. Too coincidental if you ask me.

[bad company]

Plus you also have moraine having to be saved etc.

[Majsju]

I must say something here. Did any of you feel a loss of connection with the series later in the books? I can state it in no other way.

 

Nope, not even close. But I think it depends on how you read the books. I read it as one story, which makes a difference on how you experience the individual books.

 

If you read them as individual books, of course the more complex volumes that are not focusing on just a few plotlines that gets resolved at the end will come off as a disappointment, but I con not understand why anyone would want to approach a series that way.

[Lille]

Completely offtopic but it made me laugh so i couldn't help myself. :)

 

 

 

Correct. Unfortunately we can't fault RJ for that. WOT expanded such that other POV's were needed. He could no longer stay completely focused on R/M/P.

 

 

I don't know if theres any WoW players around here, but when you said RMP i laughed :) RMP = Rogue, Mage, Priest and is a common setup for Arena teams. And i just thought that Mat is obviously the Rogue, Rand is the Mage and that makes Perrin the Priest :P

 

[RAND AL THOR]

I must say something here. Did any of you feel a loss of connection with the series later in the books? I can state it in no other way.

 

Nope, not even close. But I think it depends on how you read the books. I read it as one story, which makes a difference on how you experience the individual books.

 

If you read them as individual books, of course the more complex volumes that are not focusing on just a few plotlines that gets resolved at the end will come off as a disappointment, but I con not understand why anyone would want to approach a series that way.

 

I most certainly did.

Each book had a definite beginning and ending and the endings of the first 5 books were spectacular. You could feel the story build up towards that ending. I felt that was absent later on.

In a series, individual books are individual books. Why is the end of a series generally enticing? To make the reader read. Why does each book have a climax at the end?

Approaching WOT as a whole would have been boring, in my opinion.

[DemandredFO]

Well the first three books were kind on standalones because RJ didn't know how well they'd do but then as they did well he could write books with cliffhangers and stuff that's why series are written.  For example would you read two towers without Fellowship or return of the king I wouldn't.

[RAND AL THOR]

Standalones?

 

The first book ends with:

"The Prophecies will be fulfilled," the Aes Sedai whispered. "The Dragon is Reborn."

 

The second book ends with:

Yet one thing every tale had the same. At their head rode a man whose face had been seen in the sky above Falme, and they rode under the banner of the Dragon Reborn.

 

The third book ends with:

From outside, the cries still rose, unceasing. “The Dragon! Al’Thor! The Dragon! Al’Thor! The Dragon! Al’Thor! The Dragon!”

 

I have not seen such enticing cliffhanger endings in years. They were never standalones. The plot was too complex even in the first book for that.

 

Anyway, my former post wasn't based on the idea that the former books were standalones. They are individual books in a series. Each book has its own plot which contributs to the overall plot. For ex, I especially loved how in TDR, many main characters were all brought to the Stone one way or another for the great climatic Fall of the Stone and the Taking of Callandor. It is one of the BEST in the series. I could just see the threads being woven by the Wheel!

 

[Snowy Dawn]

``Still, sometimes a piece of art you enjoy simply isn't for everyone.''

 

Agreed, heartily. Given the opinions expressed in this thread, I rather suspect most of you would not make it thru' some of the classic novels such as <i>The Magic Mountain</i> (Thomas Mann, in the usual translation) or <i>Remembrances of Things Past</i> (Marcel Proust, in some decent translation or other), 1919 (John dos Passos), etc. Indeed I wonder if even Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy would not be found boring, or for that matter <i>The Brothers Karamazov</i>.

[D24g0n]

This thread has made me think about my view of the books.  I see the first four books as mini story lines that are part of the series, but could also be considered independent of the series.  Each one begins a new plot, then leads up to the climax and leaves you with a hint of whats to come.

 

I see the rest of the books as being one big book that is split up in order to give us, the readers, something to read while he continues the story line.  Books five through eleven are just building us up to aMoL, which will be the final climax. 

 

I read the series in a similar way to Majsju.  I enjoyed the relatively quick pace of the first few books, but I have also enjoyed the slow, detailed books because they help flesh out the world of WOT.  At least, that is how it is for me.

 

 

[RAND AL THOR]

There seems to be a surge of new members! Welcome to all!

 

I agree with D24g0n ( ??? ::)) that the former books do not seem to be as strongly linked to each other as the latter books. The absence of a clear climax in books 7 8 10 and 11 especially illustrates this. Killing Sammael was not a great ending to a book. It was not as grand a climax as the former books. Book 8- climax was disappointing. Book 9- AWESOME climax. Book 10- Most horrible climax in all of WOT. Book 11- no clear climax. More link a prequel to AMOL. I was especially sad with the ending of Book 11. I was looking forward to something like what happened at the end of book 9.

[maximuswynn]

I have never read a a series better than WoT, so excuse me if I say that whoever supports the opinion of it not being good has immense toh toward me and Harriet and deserves death.

[RAND AL THOR]

I have never read a a series better than WoT, so excuse me if I say that whoever supports the opinion of it not being good has immense toh toward me and Harriet and deserves death.

 

Such I person most certainly cannot have toh towards you, I believe. I'm 99% sure that he can't have toh, but I'm also 99% sure that I don't understand ji'e'toh.

[Jonn]

I actually think of the series as four trilogies.

 

1-3 covered Rand's journey to discovering his true identity.

 

4-6 Rand's ascendancy

 

7-9 The turmoil of finding a balance in nature, militarily, politically and finally in the One Power.

 

10-12 The final days leading to a new Age.

 

There are far more complex themes in these sets, but I find it's helpful to look at the series like this. Sure, it's all one series, and hence one book, but as has been pointe dout, the agenda shifts from the front end to the back.

 

A lot of people are unsatisfied by book's 7-11.

 

7-9: I agree that 9 was a great book, perhaps even underrated, but like others I thought 7 and 8 kind of melded together. To this day, I'm not really sure what happened in what book between the two, but still there's a lot of good material in there, more than enough. Still, this section of the series, this trilogy presented us with our first real "valley" to the peaks reached by 1-3, then 4-6. Up until then Rand's drive to unify the continent has gone rapidly and pretty smoothly considering. In this trilogy he hits a lot of snags. He's eventually stopped in his tracks and is forced to shift his focus, culminating with the Cleansing of Saidin.

The other characters also deal with snags in their approach to things. They get tossed out of the quest mode to fix large, far-reaching problems like the weather (Bowl of Winds) and then start to have to navigate through more complex political tangles and smaller, more personal struggles.

 

Book 10...If we take the three trilogies model, we see that this is actually an opening chapter in the final book. As some have said before, this book is the deep breath before the final dash. We had just come through a climax in the form of the Cleansing and now Jordan had (wisely) decided to slow it down to set us up. It can be frustrating having to wait another two years after reading this more deliberate chapter, but I think we could trust the RJ wouldn't do it if he didn't think he needed to.

 

Book 11 was much more on pace. It was perfect to follow book 10 and it was so good that we actually started to appreciate book 10 a little more, well at least I did, and I liked book 10 first time I read it.

 

I have a feeling the same will be true with A Memory of Light. I think we'll TOTALLY understand why RJ wrote book 10 the way he did. I get the feeling that A Memory of Light will have not only scope, but SPAN. I think it'll be more like the first books, a lot of time gaps, more time shifts, weeks of activity described in a couple of pages...maybe even months.

 

I've always found that to be emblematic of epics. Like in Lord of the Rings, we have gaps of time. Time spent traveling. Time spent planning, taking a respite from action. The events of what happened in that time is explained, but the detail is lost.

With Crossroads of Twilight, we were given a lot of detail about what happened in a short amount of time. Knife of Dreams had more span. I can assume that A Memory of Light will push that limit, and in doing so, we'll be able to see a balance to what RJ was doing, that has been 20 years in the making.

[D24g0n]

I agree with D24g0n ( ??? ::))

Name I've used that name for awhile, before I even heard of WOT.  Its hardly ever taken on a server.

 

Jonn basically says everything I wanted to say, except he did it 100x better.  I'm not so sure I completely agree with his view of the first three books, but I really like the way he looks at the rest of them.

 

Book 11 was much more on pace. It was perfect to follow book 10 and it was so good that we actually started to appreciate book 10 a little more, well at least I did, and I liked book 10 first time I read it.

I agree, and I liked the tenth book as well.

[RAND AL THOR]

I agree with D24g0n ( ??? ::))

Name I've used that name for awhile, before I even heard of WOT.  Its hardly ever taken on a server

 

;)Oki.

 

I would like to state that I found the ending of both books 10 and 11 somewhat disappointing. I was expecting more dramatic climaxes, especially in book 11 because book 10 was such a drag. A good climax is essential to any book. The first 6 books were great partly because of the excellent climaxes.

[Sioned47]

Having been a fan of WOT since the beginning I have to agree that the last few books were well below expectations.  I think for me it started with The Path of Daggers. 

 

One thing that made me feel this way though was the fact that the last few books did not have enough of Rand in them.  It was a few sparce pages here and there throughout the book.

 

I felt the last few books have spent and enormously long time on Faile and her capture by the Shaido.  That story line for me is just so boring. 

 

I was so disappointed in the last book that I drifted away from even caring about WOT.  I didn't even know that KOD had even come out until I saw it on a book stand, but I had to have it to go along with the series.  I havent read it yet as I wanted to re-read the others.  I just hope it is an improvement as I know the potential is there.

 

 

[Jonn]

I agree with D24g0n ( ??? ::))

Name I've used that name for awhile, before I even heard of WOT.  Its hardly ever taken on a server

 

;)Oki.

 

I would like to state that I found the ending of both books 10 and 11 somewhat disappointing. I was expecting more dramatic climaxes, especially in book 11 because book 10 was such a drag. A good climax is essential to any book. The first 6 books were great partly because of the excellent climaxes.

 

I've come to understand that A Memory of Light will be the climax to both of those books.

[RAND AL THOR]

Books 1 to 6 and book 9 had individual dramatic climaxes. I expected the same with the others.

 

Each book SHOULD have had a great climax. The endings of book 10 and 11 were just horrible and I don't care if all you guys attack me for this but I hated the endings of those two!!!!!!!!! :-X