Another interesting tidbit...

[Bob T Dwarf]

... that may have been overlooked.

 

At the kaffe klatsch at the beginning of KoD, Aran'gar notices that Moridin has had eleven chairs placed around the table.  He/she wonders why.

 

Maybe it signifies nothing.  Maybe it means that Moridin, at least, thinks that all but two of the missing and presumed dead are going to return.

 

Questions are: 

 

If Moridin thinks so, what does he know that he hasn't shared with the others?

If he's correct, who are the two who won't be returning?  Rahvin is pretty obvious, but which of the others is most likely to be DEAD, dead?

If he's correct, how has the DO managed to transmigrate those who will be returning?

[havoc110]

Note that it could be a combination of returns and field promotions.

Similar to the methods used by Glen Cook in the Black Company series.

 

Alviarin and Taim are the two obvious candidates, but RJ had made a

ruling on Alviarin's "mark", but Taim is still out there.

[42Bonzo88]

    Because Moiraine balefired Belal's fanny, I don't think he can come back.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Again that's a maybe.  Jordan hedged on balefire.  Supposedly it's only a deal breaker IF the amount used exceeds some unspecified minimum.  Moiraine's best estimate of her power with balefire is the ability to remove a few seconds at most.  That may be below Jordan's minimum.

[42Bonzo88]

    I had just thought balefire was the one and all. The other reason I thought he was gone is pretty much all of the others have came back Aran'gar, Osan'gar, etc. But could be wrong. Good thread though.

[Leopoled Boothe]

I would guess that the two missing would be Rhavin and Asmodean because in the LoC prolouge the DO specifically tells Demandred that these two will not be returning.  I would assume that being Ne'blis (sp) that Moridin would be privy to any info that that Demandred was given.  Osan'gar was killed in book nine, but because books nine and ten take place in the same time frame it would be reasonable to assume that this meeting takes place shortly after the cleansing and therefore it would be entirely possible that Moridin does not yet know of his demise.  Also there are rumors that Sammael has resurfaced so perhaps Moridin has reason to believe his is still alive as well.  So the only one I can't account for is Be'lal and it should be quite obvious to all the Forsaken by this point that he is dead and ain't comming back.

 

So it is reasonable that Moridin might be expecting 10 of the origional forsaken to return but who would occupy the 11th chair?  Well given that Taim tends to use alot of AOL lingo (eg So called Aiel) I would guess that he has been hanging around the Forsaken so I would guess that the 11th chair is for him.  Also I like the think that Moridin is a little more with it that this and considering that he was present at Shadar Logath when Sammeal died I would think that he probably wouldn't expecing him.  I wouldn't rule out Alvirian as an expected guest either.  Granted RJ said that her mark was not the same as that of the Forsaken, but still we have been shown that she is moving up in the ranks of the darkfriends so make she has recieved a sort of freshman status amoung the Forsaken.  

 

Finally continuing my assertion that Moridin is pretty with it he probably knows that Osan'gar is dead too, so I get the feeling that the final chair is intened for someone that will come as quite a suprise when they are revealed a DF in AMoL.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Truthfully, Bel'al is more a private hope than anything.

 

A whole persona, complete with backstory and a history with LTT, and we barely get to meet him.

 

"Hello.  Here's your coat, what's your hurry?  Goodbye."

 

Seems like a real waste of a character.

[cloglord]

Truthfully, Bel'al is more a private hope than anything.

 

A whole persona, complete with backstory and a history with LTT, and we barely get to meet him.

 

"Hello.  Here's your coat, what's your hurry?  Goodbye."

 

Seems like a real waste of a character.

 

Uhmm, Bel'al is one of the least fleshed out of the characters.  Floran Gelb has more on screen time than him.  All we know about be'lal is that he turned from the light, was a blademaster, and that people called him the net weaver, apparently for his craptastic schemes.  There isn't even much about him in the BWB.

 

As for the other question, I have an idea that I've not seen discussed before, and it has to do with the Zomara.  It seems too convienient to me that Ishy has been using Zomara since TGH, that Zomara can read minds, and that Ishy hasn't found a way to make use of that.  I'm thinking that Ishy has figured out a way to tap into the mindreading ability of the Zomara in order to try and feel out the other forsaken's true motives.  If that is the case, then the extra chairs would be a way of making each of the other forsaken think about who they knew to be dead, and who they believed was still alive and in hiding.  If Ishy was truely trying to flush out cooluders w/Sammael, then this would be an ideal method of doing it. 

 

That's just me though, and its all based on the hunch that there is more to Ishy's use of Zomora than his love of beautiful dead eyed servants. 

[42Bonzo88]

    This is going out on a limb a little, I really wish my memory was as good as most of yours, but I can't keep thinking about the lady who tried to kill Mat and Rand in Book One. I can't remember her name, but she was in charge when Byar (DF Children of the light, questioner) was killed.  I don't know if she would be 'big' enough in the dark to take a chair, but killing Byar who was taken to Shayo Ghul, would have to be pretty big.

[havoc110]

You're talking about Mili Skane.

 

Powerful Darkfriend? Yes

 

Ability to Channel? No.

 

So she won't get a promotion to Chosen.

[42Bonzo88]

    Thanks, I actually hope she goes far. She is one mean lady! Brandy, anyone?

[cloglord]

You mean the Mili Skane who is about to be arrested and hung next to Comar by Elayne as a darkfriend?

[42Bonzo88]

    About to be and actually caught are two different things. Maybe, she will invite the soldiers for a drink? He He

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

Uhmm, Bel'al is one of the least fleshed out of the characters.  Floran Gelb has more on screen time than him.  All we know about be'lal is that he turned from the light, was a blademaster, and that people called him the net weaver, apparently for his craptastic schemes.  There isn't even much about him in the BWB.

 

Exactly my point.  Jordan went to the trouble of creating the guy.  Created an AoL backstory for him.  Gave him an interesting skillset.  And then introduces him and blows him away virtually on the same page.

 

Even Roddenberry didn't go to that much trouble with any of the Ensign Expendable's.  You don't invest that much skullsweat in in a Forsaken Expendable, either.

 

A total waste of a potentially very interesting character.

[benr]

Maybe Alviarin and Taim could become Accepted Chosens. 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Nah,  I figgered it out.

 

The extra chairs are for Curly, Larry, and Moe.  This crew is obviously the Keystone Kops just waiting for the Three Stooges to arrive so the serious eye poking, nose tweaking, and head banging can get started.

 

 

Joking... just joking... I really do think the extra chairs have some plot significance.

[cloglord]

Exactly my point.  Jordan went to the trouble of creating the guy.  Created an AoL backstory for him.  Gave him an interesting skillset.  And then introduces him and blows him away virtually on the same page.

 

Even Roddenberry didn't go to that much trouble with any of the Ensign Expendable's.  You don't invest that much skullsweat in in a Forsaken Expendable, either.

 

A total waste of a potentially very interesting character.

 

I disagree.  I don't think RJ spent too much time fleshing out Bel'al.  I mean we have just as much information about a number of 2 rivers folks who bite it after just as small a part.  Here's what I mean

 

Kenley Ahan

 

A young Two Rivers man. He lives on a farm between Emond's Field and Watch Hill.

Physical Description

 

He is two years older than Egwene. He has a square face. (TEotW,Earlier)

Chronology

 

    * Kenley Ahan carries water during the sheep shearing. He tries to steal a honeycake and gets caught by Corin Ayellin. (TEotW,Earlier)

    * Kenley Ahan decides to join Perrin's rescue party rather than accompany his family to Emond's Field. (TSR,Ch33)

    * Kenley is killed in the Trolloc ambush. (TSR,Ch40)

 

Other References

 

    * TSR,Ch43 - Perrin hears Mistress Ahan calling for Kenley when he returns to Emond's Field after the Trolloc attack.

Be'lal

 

Pronunciation: BEH-lahl

 

aka: Duram Laddel Cham, High Lord Samon

 

One of the Forsaken. His real name was Duram Laddel Cham. The translation of the Old Tongue name Be'lal has not been disclosed, but he was known as the Netweaver.

 

Physical Description

He is tall with close-cropped white hair.

Be'lal - by Dabel Brothers Production

Chronology

 

    * Be'lal and Lews Therin are allies for a time during the War of Power. Be'lal is a leader in the fight against the Dark One before he forsakes the Light. (TDR,Ch50, TDR,Ch55)

    * During the War of Power, Be'lal and Demandred lead massive attacks in the areas where the Choedan Kal were built. (SaSG)

    * Be'lal razes the Hall of the Servants just before Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions seal the Bore. (TDR,Ch50)

    * The thirteen Forsaken meet with the Great Lord in the Pit of Doom. Lews Therin and his companions seal the Bore, trapping the Forsaken for over three thousand years.

    * After escaping the Bore, Be'lal sets himself up as High Lord Samon and rules Tear. He plans to use Rand to gain Callandor.

    * Ishamael meets with Be'lal and Rahvin in a place resembling the Ways. They argue violently. (TDR,Ch4)

    * Be'lal visits Callandor in Tel'aran'rhiod almost running into Egwene and "Silvie." (TDR,Ch27)

    * In his role as Tairen High Lord Samon, Be'lal promotes hatred of Illian and Tar Valon. (TDR,Ch32)

    * Be'lal plans to use Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve as bait for a trap. He has summoned thirteen Fades to take care of them afterwards. (TDR,Ch51)

    * Be'lal sends the Black Ajah to set the hedgehog trap for Moiraine so he expects her to be out of the picture. (TDR,Ch55)

    * Be'lal confronts Rand in the Heart of the Stone and goads him to take Callandor. Before he can kill Rand, Moiraine arrives and balefires him. (TDR,Ch55)

***Both quotes taken from Encyclopedia WOT***

 

Would you mourn the loss of Floran Gelb as a character if he died?  What about poor Paitr Conel the dead DF who tried to sneak Morgase from out of Whitecloak hands?  Personally I am a little tired of moronic forsaken, and I am glad to see that a few of them died and stayed dead. 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'm tired of moronic Forsaken as well.  Which is why I do mourn the loss of Bel'al. 

 

Now, he probably would have been a disappointment and turned out to be as moronic as the rest, but we'll never know.